Mens Rights Thread

Calhoun · 16-07-2017 01:55PM

What power does the caucas have ? Maybe it's time we had a men's only group created. Obviously not supported by the government as it's increasingly likely that men's issue have to be championed by men .

iptba · 16-07-2017 07:48PM

Calhoun wrote: »

Maybe it's time we had a men's only group created. Obviously not supported by the government as it's increasingly likely that men's issue have to be championed by men .

It could be useful. But it is probably too politically incorrect at the moment. It probably would take more active groups outside before this would happen.

Calhoun · 16-07-2017 08:08PM

iptba wrote: »

It could be useful. But it is probably too politically incorrect at the moment. It probably would take more active groups outside before this would happen.

I think as men we need to stop being afraid if being seen as non PC. When is the time we push back ? When it's too late ?

El_Duderino 09 · 16-07-2017 08:14PM

Calhoun wrote:

What power does the caucas have ? Maybe it's time we had a men's only group created. Obviously not supported by the government as it's increasingly likely that men's issue have to be championed by men .

It might be practical to form a group to find solutions to the problems raised in these threads.

iptba wrote:

It could be useful. But it is probably too politically incorrect at the moment. It probably would take more active groups outside before this would happen.

It never occurred to me that posters in this thread would be so concerned by political correctness.

It seemed to be agreed that the idea of a women's only caucas was a bad idea - it featured in a thread about attacks on men's rights.

If it's wrong for women to do it, then wouldn't it be equally wrong for men to do it? Or is it right for women and men? Or wrong for women but right for men?

Calhoun · 16-07-2017 08:21PM

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

It might be practical to form a group to find solutions to the problems raised in these threads.

It never occurred to me that posters in this thread would be so concerned by political correctness.

It seemed to be agreed that the idea of a women's only caucas was a bad idea - it featured in a thread about attacks on men's rights.

If it's wrong for women to do it, then wouldn't it be equally wrong for men to do it? Or is it right for women and men? Or wrong for women but right for men?

What would you advocate ?

I think posters are more concerned about the hypocrisy of the current status quo in politics that a men's only group couldn't be created as it would be seen as non PC.

Yet there are many rights issues that are unequal for men. Like father's rights ect.

iptba · 16-07-2017 08:21PM

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

iptba wrote:

It could be useful. But it is probably too politically incorrect at the moment. It probably would take more active groups outside before this would happen.

It never occurred to me that posters in this thread would be so concerned by political correctness.

I was giving my opinion on what I see as the practical reality that male politicians would be very nervous about setting up or being seen as being involved in a men's caucus. Hardly a particularly noteworthy comment.

El_Duderino 09 · 16-07-2017 09:10PM

Calhoun wrote:

I think posters are more concerned about the hypocrisy of the current status quo in politics that a men's only group couldn't be created as it would be seen as non PC.

The women's group is being portrayed exclusively as non-pc in this thread. Yet it exists.
So being seen as non-pc doesn't mean you can't exist or get things done.

Is forming a male/female caucus right or wrong in your opinion? Because it seemed posters agreed it was wrong when women did it but then thought it might be a good idea for men to do it. The main barrier appears to be that it might be seen as non-pc. So was there a change of heart about whether or not it's ok to form a male/female caucus?

Calhoun · 16-07-2017 09:13PM

Hi

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

The women's group is being portrayed exclusively as non-pc in this thread. Yet it exists.
So being seen as non-pc doesn't mean you can't exist or get things done.

Is forming a male/female caucus right or wrong in your opinion? Because it seemed posters agreed it was wrong when women did it but then thought it might be a good idea for men to do it. The main barrier appears to be that it might be seen as non-pc. So was there a change of heart about whether or not it's ok to form a male/female caucus?

Well I think a group made up of variety of citizens looking at our human rights in different areas would be the best way to go in a perfect world.

We don't operate in a perfect world however and a mens group maybe the right thing to do in order the highlight and bring to the fore men's rights in certain areas.

El_Duderino 09 · 16-07-2017 09:51PM

Calhoun wrote:

Well I think a group made up of variety of citizens looking at our human rights in different areas would be the best way to go in a perfect world.

Agreed.

Calhoun wrote:

We don't operate in a perfect world however and a mens group maybe the right thing to do in order the highlight and bring to the fore men's rights in certain areas.

So it might be the right thing to do? And the people who complained that the women's caucus was a bad thing are wrong? I can't find the standard that can be applied to both sides.

Calhoun · 16-07-2017 09:55PM

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

Agreed.

So it might be the right thing to do? And the people who complained that the women's caucus was a bad thing are wrong? I can't find the standard that can be applied to both sides.

I would say so yes and we should all aim to be allot more equal in our politics.

I complained about it and then advocated a men's group so I see your point and I was wrong as I am no better for viewing things in that way.

Thanks for teasing this out for me, always good to broaden the mind.

El_Duderino 09 · 16-07-2017 10:00PM

Calhoun wrote:

I would say so yes and we should all aim to be allot more equal in our politics.

To be fair, if men formed a group and it resulted in better boys education or father's rights, I wouldn't consider it a bad thing. - As long as it doesn't to out of its way to shaft the other side

Calhoun · 16-07-2017 10:10PM

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

To be fair, if men formed a group and it resulted in better boys education or father's rights, I wouldn't consider it a bad thing. - As long as it doesn't to out of its way to shaft the other side

That's what it should be aimed at, was speaking with the wife today and she was telling me of a friend who had to take the father of her baby to court and get a DNA test. She was so afraid he would mess her around she had to get him to provide I'd to the place taking the blood.

It's a shame we have men in this day and age walking away from children when so many others would give their right arms for more access to their kids.

El_Duderino 09 · 17-07-2017 10:04AM

Calhoun wrote:

It's a shame we have men in this day and age walking away from children when so many others would give their right arms for more access to their kids.

It's a a shame alright. I wonder if it's a new development or not. My grandmother's family was affected by a tuberculosis outbreak back in the day. Her mother died and the children went to be raised by other family members. Her father remarried and had another family. We asked whether he wanted to keep the children or not it it wasn't the done thing at the time. We have no idea whether he skipped merrily away to start a brand new family or was forced by social norms to separate from his family.

At least father's fights are on the table for discussion now. It's a start.

Sn@kebite · 17-07-2017 06:11PM

red ears wrote: »

I'd say men can forget about becoming surgeons for a while.

I assume the same effort will go into getting more male midwives, nurses and teachers

and local GPs. Not to mention male medical students.

py2006 · 19-07-2017 01:39PM

Never thought I'd say this, but Judge Judy needs to pop over here:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tpy8NMonHE0

iptba · 20-07-2017 12:50PM

BBC pay: Male presenters could face wage cut

http://www.bbc.com/news/entertainment-arts-40663781?utm_content=57787918

KrustyUCC · 20-07-2017 01:40PM

'Mediocre men outperform outstanding women'

Jane Ohlmeyer, a senior academic at Trinity College Dublin, is hugely conscious of the acute lack of women in senior roles across the university sector.
“It’s not good for colleges, it’s not good for the country - we’re missing out on a huge talent pool,” she said.
“Mediocre men are outperforming outstanding women because of the nature of the system. Sometimes it’s because women are not putting themselves forward, in other cases it’s because it’s a patriarchy. However we try to gloss over that, it’s a reality.”
The professor of modern history at Trinityand director of the Trinity Long Room Hub said for the issue to be taken seriously, financial rewards and penalties are required.
Hard to change culture
“There need to be sanctions for those who don’t take it seriously. Otherwise, it won’t happen. Its very hard to change the culture on the ground. We are lagging way behind most of our European neighbours.”

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/education/mediocre-men-outperform-outstanding-women-1.3160597

Calhoun · 20-07-2017 03:42PM

KrustyUCC wrote: »

'Mediocre men outperform outstanding women'

Jane Ohlmeyer, a senior academic at Trinity College Dublin, is hugely conscious of the acute lack of women in senior roles across the university sector.
“It’s not good for colleges, it’s not good for the country - we’re missing out on a huge talent pool,” she said.
“Mediocre men are outperforming outstanding women because of the nature of the system. Sometimes it’s because women are not putting themselves forward, in other cases it’s because it’s a patriarchy. However we try to gloss over that, it’s a reality.”
The professor of modern history at Trinityand director of the Trinity Long Room Hub said for the issue to be taken seriously, financial rewards and penalties are required.
Hard to change culture
“There need to be sanctions for those who don’t take it seriously. Otherwise, it won’t happen. Its very hard to change the culture on the ground. We are lagging way behind most of our European neighbours.”

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/education/mediocre-men-outperform-outstanding-women-1.3160597

Has she got any evidence other than her own opinion that the men are crap ?

Don't think there is anything to see here usual piece from self interest feminist.

KrustyUCC · 20-07-2017 03:50PM

Of course she doesn't

Sure lets just appoint a female President of a University as we're 1 or 2 countries who hasn't done that yet for the sake of it ... nothing about the female having to be the best person for the job

Calhoun · 20-07-2017 03:59PM

KrustyUCC wrote: »

Of course she doesn't

Sure lets just appoint a female President of a University as we're 1 or 2 countries who hasn't done that yet for the sake of it ... nothing about the female having to be the best person for the job

I can see her point on one level as you do want it to be a fair system but as it stands she is essentially engaging in dirty politics by saying that the male candidates are mediocre in comparison to women.

KrustyUCC · 20-07-2017 04:04PM

Ah yeah but what is a fair system?

Take this case

UCD lecturer loses High Court action on gender discrimination

A UCD school of law and business lecturer has lost her High Court action alleging the failure to promote her to the rank of professor amounted to gender discrimination.
Dr Eleanor O'Higgins had challenged the Labour Court's dismissal of her complaint of gender bias in the decision of a UCD promotions committee rejecting her 2007 application for promotion in 2007

She complained about the makde up of the selection committe 12 men and 1 woman

Yet The court had heard, in the 2007 round of promotions, there were 19 candidates, of whom 15 were men and four were women. Of the 15 men, six were promoted while two of the four women were promoted. Three men were promoted to professor within the UCD school of law and business.

http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/courts/ucd-lecturer-loses-high-court-action-on-gender-discrimination-29738352.html

6/15 men = 40% of men got promoted while 50% of female canditates got promoted

iptba · 20-07-2017 06:01PM

I have previously highlighted that quite a lot of hashtags on women's issues and/or feminist issues have been trending in Ireland. Here's one on a men's issue #malehealthie:

https://twitter.com/KiiimBuckley/status/888005094477893632

https://twitter.com/SamaritansIRL/status/888003073825808385

https://twitter.com/MLaveryIFJ/status/887980441499611137

https://twitter.com/MLaveryIFJ/status/887971654466502657

https://twitter.com/SeeChangeIRL/status/887256545037357056

iptba · 20-07-2017 08:05PM

iptba wrote: »

BBC pay: Male presenters could face wage cut

http://www.bbc.com/news/entertainment-arts-40663781?utm_content=57787918

BBC axe award-winning comedian of 18 years for being 'white and male'
Nicola Harley
2 October 2016

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/10/01/bbc-axe-award-winning-comedian-of-18-years-for-being-white-and-m/

It comes as the BBC's new diversity targets aim to ensure that women will make up half of its staff by 2020 and the number of black, Asian and minority ethnic backgrounds will increase to 15 per cent.

A BBC spokesperson said: “While the Government's new charter for the BBC does set us diversity targets, we always hire presenters on merit.

It looks like the 50% female quota in the BBC by 2020 is coming from the UK government. Presuming the percentage of the current employees who are female is below 50% now, which seems likely given the target, I could well imagine there will be some discrimination.

Wibbs · 20-07-2017 08:11PM

iptba wrote: »

It looks like the 50% female quota in the BBC by 2020 is coming from the UK government. Presuming the percentage of the current employees who are female is below 50% now, which seems likely given the target, I could well imagine there will be some discrimination.

I thought it amusing that in the same week that the BBC was lauded for making Doctor Who a woman cos virtuous equality(#sobrave), they've shown that where it counts on the bottom line they pay women less. Brilliant. Not exactly atypical of such an apparently hypocritical entity.

Calhoun · 20-07-2017 09:12PM

Interesting site using the template the Australians built for their site. Not sure what i think about the spanner in the works body thing, as its like a detailed list of what could kill you but we will just provide links to other sites.

The detail is in the pamphlets they have linked in pdf are more useful to be fair.

iptba · 21-07-2017 02:15AM

iptba wrote: »

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/10/01/bbc-axe-award-winning-comedian-of-18-years-for-being-white-and-m/

It comes as the BBC's new diversity targets aim to ensure that women will make up half of its staff by 2020 and the number of black, Asian and minority ethnic backgrounds will increase to 15 per cent.

A BBC spokesperson said: “While the Government's new charter for the BBC does set us diversity targets, we always hire presenters on merit.

It looks like the 50% female quota in the BBC by 2020 is coming from the UK government. Presuming the percentage of the current employees who are female is below 50% now, which seems likely given the target, I could well imagine there will be some discrimination.

Hall released a statement in response saying that one of the network’s goals was to create more gender equality by 2020.

“We want all our lead and presenting roles to be equally divided by men and women,” he said. “This is already having an impact — of the top talent we have hired or promoted in the last three years, more than 60 percent are women.”

http://www.thewrap.com/doctor-who-jodie-whittaker-salary/

21-07-2017 08:00AM

Wibbs wrote: »

I thought it amusing that in the same week that the BBC was lauded for making Doctor Who a woman cos virtuous equality(#sobrave), they've shown that where it counts on the bottom line they pay women less. Brilliant. Not exactly atypical of such an apparently hypocritical entity.

The whole "pay gap" thing at the BBC is such BS. The guys at the top are massive stars and some could easily mulitply their salaries elsewhere (Graham Norton on less than a million per year. Leave out a couple of the top earners and the median is much the same. Plus the guys generally have been around a good bit longer.

Wibbs · 21-07-2017 08:18AM

Oh sure, it comes down to ratings. Generally speaking the men get more of them.

Yourself isit · 21-07-2017 02:49PM

Norton seemed underpaid. Relatively.

Sleepy · 21-07-2017 02:56PM

He only does one show a week and for a limited run every year though? A lot of those being paid more would do longer / more shows and for longer runs?

Mens Rights Thread

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