Ever know anyone who went totally broke

draiochtanois · 21-07-2017 10:05AM

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Stonedpilot · 21-07-2017 10:21AM

Define broke?.

Someone scrapping by on welfare paying rent bills, food, etc etc is not broke, might not have more than €10 to their name at the end of the week might be scrapping by but not totally broke.

Most people here referring to people who aren't totally broke, shyt hit the fan types but getting by easily in most cases I mean a few cases here are so incredibly absurd, lost one of his farms etc.Sorry having like €100,000 and land is not totally broke!.

I mean to me totally broke is on the streets without a penny, bridges burned and no one to dig them out with money, doesn't count if some family member with deep pockets saves the day cos someone is skint for a day or two.
Think the folk you see on the street asking for change.

fepper · 21-07-2017 10:38AM

draiochtanois wrote: »

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They must be doing something right because because you don't see many up for sale and its usually external reasons such as no family members interest in farming as a career if owner retiring

draiochtanois · 21-07-2017 11:09AM

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fepper · 21-07-2017 11:28AM

draiochtanois wrote: »

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People are entitled to sell if they want to,doesn't mean the business model is bad,a lot would be too small so expansion for them could prove to be very expensive in the long term if prices too volatile with the possibility of going broke then if debts outweigh farm value

worded · 21-07-2017 11:34AM

L1011 wrote: »

A local taxi driver used to run a business that employed hundreds, family firm for a few generations. Apparently he was lucky to keep the car when it failed.

Fair play to him for giving it a go and great he was able to keep the car.
Imagine if the banks took that as well !

21-07-2017 11:39AM

Stonedpilot wrote: »

Define broke?.

Someone scrapping by on welfare paying rent bills, food, etc etc is not broke, might not have more than €10 to their name at the end of the week might be scrapping by but not totally broke.

Most people here referring to people who aren't totally broke, shyt hit the fan types but getting by easily in most cases I mean a few cases here are so incredibly absurd, lost one of his farms etc.Sorry having like €100,000 and land is not totally broke!.

I mean to me totally broke is on the streets without a penny, bridges burned and no one to dig them out with money, doesn't count if some family member with deep pockets saves the day cos someone is skint for a day or two.
Think the folk you see on the street asking for change.

Well very few in Ireland are going to end up on the streets broke, but that doesn't they have not lost almost everything. The thing about the big Irish family is there tends to be a lot of support if things go wrong so they might be broke but be still have contacts stay member of the local golf club etc, because of their family. The 1970s and 1980s were a different county any way.

Luck has a lot to do with these things, one of my brothers is a property developer in a very minor way, he is a QS did it straight out of college with a small two bed terrace that was so bad the ceiling has falling in he lived in it as did it up around himself in the evening, but even he says it was just luck that he didn't get caught out during the crash and at that stage he was married and had children.

Its different going broke and you only have youself to worrier about.

harr · 21-07-2017 11:57AM

I know a few builders who supposedly went broke and declared bankruptcy leaving huge debts and unpaid wages to a large number of local lads.
Didn't stop them driving around in the big 4x4,s or going on 2 or 3 holidays a year....kept heads down for a few years now back at the sane game with new Business name...a few local smaller businesses and workers went completely broke because of these few cowboys..
And they had no shame whatsoever.....

hinault · 21-07-2017 12:10PM

harr wrote: »

I know a few builders who supposedly went broke and declared bankruptcy leaving huge debts and unpaid wages to a large number of local lads.
Didn't stop them driving around in the big 4x4,s or going on 2 or 3 holidays a year....kept heads down for a few years now back at the sane game with new Business name...a few local smaller businesses and workers went completely broke because of these few cowboys..
And they had no shame whatsoever.....

Again, this is a case where their businesses, rather than what they owed personally, welched on their creditors.

This begs the question, where is the demarcation between the business and the business owner personally? And it is a reasonable question to ask especially where one is owed money by the business/business owner.

I know of one particularly blatant case. This company employed hundreds of people. It owed millions to it's trade creditors. Before going belly up the owners paid themselves a massive dividend. As a result, the company had insufficient capital to settle it's outstanding liabilities. Employees and trade creditors were left out of pocket. A lot of anger about.

The owners of the companies had to re-locate out of Ireland to places like Bahrain, such was the anger at their welching.
If the owners of this company ever set foot back in Ireland, some people will call to collect what they are owed still, nearly 20 years on.

harr · 21-07-2017 12:24PM

hinault wrote: »

Again, this is a case where their businesses, rather than what they owed personally, welched on their creditors.

This begs the question, where is the demarcation between the business and the business owner personally? And it is a reasonable question to ask especially where one is owed money by the business/business owner.

I know of one particularly blatant case. This company employed hundreds of people. It owed millions to it's trade creditors. Before going belly up the owners paid themselves a massive dividend. As a result, the company had insufficient capital to settle it's outstanding liabilities. Employees and trade creditors were left out of pocket. A lot of anger about.

The owners of the companies had to re-locate out of Ireland to places like Bahrain, such was the anger at their welching.
If the owners of this company ever set foot back in Ireland, some people will call to collect what they are owed still, nearly 20 years on.

Well I know the builders I mentioned above transferd all personal money and property into his daughter's name a couple of weeks before declaring bankruptcy and a month before going bankrupt he took out a huge credit union loan in the name of his company and that money was never recovered, all of this was done in his company name so him or his family don't owe anybody anything and his wife was free to set up a new company for him only a few months back.
He has been confronted over it but maintains his Hands are tied because his past company was wound up ..

hinault · 21-07-2017 12:40PM

harr wrote: »

Well I know the builders I mentioned above transferd all personal money and property into his daughter's name a couple of weeks before declaring bankruptcy and a month before going bankrupt he took out a huge credit union loan in the name of his company and that money was never recovered, all of this was done in his company name so him or his family don't owe anybody anything and his wife was free to set up a new company for him only a few months back.
He has been confronted over it but maintains his Hands are tied because his past company was wound up ..

In saying that his hands are tied, legally he is correct.
But that won't butter any parsnips with those who are owed money by his company/him.

That's why I say the demarcation between the legal limited liability entity and the owner, makes no difference to the person who's out of pocket.

Wanderer78 · 21-07-2017 12:41PM

The term 'Gresham's dynamic' that Bill black uses comes to mind while reading some of the stories here

worded · 21-07-2017 12:42PM

harr wrote: »

Well I know the builders I mentioned above transferd all personal money and property into his daughter's name a couple of weeks before declaring bankruptcy and a month before going bankrupt he took out a huge credit union loan in the name of his company and that money was never recovered, all of this was done in his company name so him or his family don't owe anybody anything and his wife was free to set up a new company for him only a few months back.
He has been confronted over it but maintains his Hands are tied because his past company was wound up ..

And as simple with a full paper trail and he got away with that? waw ...

More the fools a credit union giving him a company loan with no personal security

wonderwall900 · 21-07-2017 03:52PM

harr wrote: »

I know a few builders who supposedly went broke and declared bankruptcy leaving huge debts and unpaid wages to a large number of local lads.
Didn't stop them driving around in the big 4x4,s or going on 2 or 3 holidays a year....kept heads down for a few years now back at the sane game with new Business name...a few local smaller businesses and workers went completely broke because of these few cowboys..
And they had no shame whatsoever.....

Again, how is this still legal and going on? I thought if you declared bankruptcy in Ireland you're barred from starting another business for 7 years?

L1011 · 21-07-2017 04:58PM

wonderwall900 wrote: »

Again, how is this still legal and going on? I thought if you declared bankruptcy in Ireland you're barred from starting another business for 7 years?

You were never barred from starting another business at any stage, it's just unlikely you'd get any loans etc and potentially earnings could be taken towards the old debt. The term has been cut repeatedly to 12 months in non complex cases.

You can be barred as a director for trading insolvent but that's a different thing

Ever know anyone who went totally broke

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