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Ideal Sheep

  • 19-07-2017 11:59PM
    #1
    123shooter
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 964 ✭✭✭


    Shed their own wool.
    Require no shearing.
    Require no dipping.
    Very little if any fly strike.

    Result = Reduced costs in materials, time and labour.
    Foot problems largely bred out of PB breed.

    Results = Reduced costs in materials, time and labour.

    No horns and tight short wool. No horns means 3-4 strand electric fencing can be used and no need for sheep wire.

    Results = less energy used from feed. Reduced fencing costs.

    Will lamb outside.

    Result = No sheds so reduced material costs.

    Lambing ratio 1.4+.

    Will live on rough grazing similar to horny mountain.

    Lambs return good weights.

    Pure bred 'Easycare' breed sheep.

    Cross bred from huge Wiltshire Horn and Welsh Mountain.

    Very successful and very popular in UK breed developed by Welsh man in Wales since 1960's.


    Your views please on this breed or why you prefer to keep spending time and hard earned cash on other breeds that need shearing and dipping etc?


«13

Comments

  • #2
    Lambman
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,041 ✭✭✭Lambman


    Shearing usually pays for itself.... I don't belive they can be more resistant than any other breed till flystrike? Any flystrike i ever had is in lambs and wudnt the easycare lambs have as much wool on them at this stage as any other breed? If u want a sheep till live on rough grazing buy mules and tip with blue Lester ram and you'll return 1.8 + lambs and lamb outside and every bit as easy finished.... foot problems can occur in any breed but can be controlled by selective breeding... if you have a good setup with good fields and wire then it's up till you what u keep everyone has there own way a working and does what suits them or what they like.... 1.4 would be a poor return on a lowland flock and I'm sure any off the terminal breeds will be faster till factory than an easycare lamb. Also taking the sheep in for shearing or dipping is a time when farmers would do other jobs like dosing weighing foothbathing etc so you'd still have till do this so there's no real labour saving either.


  • #3
    123shooter
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 964 ✭✭✭123shooter


    Lambman wrote: »
    Shearing usually pays for itself.... I don't belive they can be more resistant than any other breed till flystrike? Any flystrike i ever had is in lambs and wudnt the easycare lambs have as much wool on them at this stage as any other breed? If u want a sheep till live on rough grazing buy mules and tip with blue Lester ram and you'll return 1.8 + lambs and lamb outside and every bit as easy finished.... foot problems can occur in any breed but can be controlled by selective breeding... if you have a good setup with good fields and wire then it's up till you what u keep everyone has there own way a working and does what suits them or what they like.... 1.4 would be a poor return on a lowland flock and I'm sure any off the terminal breeds will be faster till factory than an easycare lamb.

    The 1.4 would be a minimum I believe. I get 1.7.

    Only flystrike I have ever had is on the ram with fight damage on his head. Never had fly strike on lambs or ewes but then I do dose them if scoury if not before (regularly).

    Never had foot problems in Easycare as I thought it had been bred out of PB.

    Shearing breaks even some years but never makes a profit (so why do it?). And is just another job you have to do with no return, so working for nothing ........ yet again !

    Easycare isn't a lowland flock and in the west most farmers do not have 'good fields'.

    Dipping and shearing is still time which = money together with material costs........so all money.

    So you aren't a fan or believe they are an advantage...........That's ok. :)


  • #4
    Lambman
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,041 ✭✭✭Lambman


    There not for me but as I said above everyman has there preferences... I've no foot problems here either or flystrike but maybe that's because we look after them properly as you said with dosing etc.... but if a man were till be left a farm with no idea about farming and wanted till buy a few sheep and read ur above post hed think this is gonna be easy I buy 100 easycare sheep they lamb themselves have great feet live in poor ground all I have till do is gather and sell my 140 lambs every year.... do u think it would work? I don't all sheep need looking after.


  • #5
    123shooter
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 964 ✭✭✭123shooter


    Lambman wrote: »
    There not for me but as I said above everyman has there preferences... I've no foot problems here either or flystrike but maybe that's because we look after them properly as you said with dosing etc.... but if a man were till be left a farm with no idea about farming and wanted till buy a few sheep and read ur above post hed think this is gonna be easy I buy 100 easycare sheep they lamb themselves have great feet live in poor ground all I have till do is gather and sell my 140 lambs every year.... do u think it would work? I don't all sheep need looking after.

    No not at all and I didn't intend that.

    I posted to hear others views and perfectly accept yours.

    But out in mountainy areas where land is poor, weather harsh, the main sheep is the old horny mountain type and I have found these to be a very good replacement..........in my situation.


  • #6
    Green farmer
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,004 ✭✭✭Green farmer


    Good to see a discussion on the easy care. Anyone know how they compare to the llyen ? Thinking about I'm trying out the easy care here on mixed lowland. How do they finish in comparison to terminal sires ?


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  • #7
    123shooter
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 964 ✭✭✭123shooter


    Green farmer wrote: »
    Good to see a discussion on the easy care. Anyone know how they compare to the llyen ? Thinking about I'm trying out the easy care here on mixed lowland. How do they finish in comparison to terminal sires ?

    I think unless you have plenty of good fresh grass they will always just the same of other breeds ...... finish better elsewhere.

    On un-reclaimed hill land with no bag manure applied and desperate for lime, the Easycare lambs do very well considering.

    Their downfall is their rear 'leg of lambs' do not get as big as the butchers type of lambs. But then aren't most lambs purchased by overall weight and not the Sunday roast?

    This fella is 4 to 5 months old max and is the norm as you can see by others in pic.


  • #8
    123shooter
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 964 ✭✭✭123shooter


    Green farmer wrote: »
    Good to see a discussion on the easy care.

    It may be a slow hard slog as with 99 views of the thread only 2 sheep farmers offer their views so far. :)


  • #9
    Lambman
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,041 ✭✭✭Lambman


    Nice lamb shooter123 what % do they kill out at?


  • #10
    123shooter
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 964 ✭✭✭123shooter


    Lambman wrote: »
    Nice lamb shooter123 what % do they kill out at?

    I have had them 5 years now so 4 crops of lambs but only once did they go to the factory and they were between 17 & 21kg on the hook.

    The other 2 years they were sold for finishing on better land and that hopefully will happen this weekend as well.

    I am quite pleased with them. I had horny's before same as every one else here and never again. Just so much work, and I am not saying that so I benefit in someway. I really would love to hear others views on keeping a breed with less work or why they prefer to keep other breeds but do not mind the work.


  • #11
    ganmo
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,748 ✭✭✭ganmo


    123shooter wrote: »
    It may be a slow hard slog as with 99 views of the thread only 2 sheep farmers offer their views so far. :)

    To be brutally honest the pro side had so much marketing speak and con arguments wasn't any better...so I just lets yas at it.

    By the way wool did make money for the previous 2 years


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  • #12
    123shooter
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 964 ✭✭✭123shooter


    ganmo wrote: »
    To be brutally honest the pro side had so much marketing speak and con arguments wasn't any better...so I just lets yas at it.

    By the way wool did make money for the previous 2 years

    Appologize and point taken .....hanging my head :o:o:o:o:o:o


  • #13
    123shooter
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 964 ✭✭✭123shooter


    ganmo wrote: »
    To be brutally honest the pro side had so much marketing speak and con arguments wasn't any better...so I just lets yas at it.

    By the way wool did make money for the previous 2 years

    What do you keep Ganmo and what do you do with the lambs?


  • #14
    Username John
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,237 ✭✭✭Username John


    I'll contribute, just as you said not many were (Altho I don't lamb sheep no more) ;)

    From what I read on this thread - easycare are very good, in that they dont need shearing. I see this as a big plus, as having to shear is a faff... Maybe some years you make a little, other years lose a little... But if given a choice, would prefer to skip it...

    However...

    To me, this is the only real pro. The other items you mention around feet, I think as Lambman said, thats down to breeding, culling, management within your own flock. We used to have mainly Suffolks, and whilst they were known for bad feet - all ours were very good, cos we culled heard to rid ourselves of the lame ones...

    Maybe a con for easycare, is growth rates vs lambs a terminal ram?

    So maybe lads would prefer to spend 1 day a year shearing, to be rid of lambs maybe a few weeks earlier? I dunno...

    I think they definitely have their place. But I dont think they are for everyone either, but who knows...

    Another point is the scan rate - now, I know this could be increased by crossing with a maternal breed, but it seems is something the easycare brings...

    Speaking of crossing, tell me - how hereditary is the wool shedding? If a lad got an easycare ram, and put with a Suffolk cross ewe (I say Suffolk, as a lot of the national flock have Suffolk in them)
    Would the resulting lambs shed their wool? Or would you need breed again off an easycare ram, for it to come through?


  • #15
    123shooter
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 964 ✭✭✭123shooter


    Username John wrote: »
    I'll contribute, just as you said not many were (Altho I don't lamb sheep no more) ;)

    From what I read on this thread - easycare are very good, in that they dont need shearing. I see this as a big plus, as having to shear is a faff... Maybe some years you make a little, other years lose a little... But if given a choice, would prefer to skip it...

    However...

    To me, this is the only real pro. The other items you mention around feet, I think as Lambman said, thats down to breeding, culling, management within your own flock. We used to have mainly Suffolks, and whilst they were known for bad feet - all ours were very good, cos we culled heard to rid ourselves of the lame ones...

    Maybe a con for easycare, is growth rates vs lambs a terminal ram?

    So maybe lads would prefer to spend 1 day a year shearing, to be rid of lambs maybe a few weeks earlier? I dunno...

    I think they definitely have their place. But I dont think they are for everyone either, but who knows...

    Another point is the scan rate - now, I know this could be increased by crossing with a maternal breed, but it seems is something the easycare brings...

    Speaking of crossing, tell me - how hereditary is the wool shedding? If a lad got an easycare ram, and put with a Suffolk cross ewe (I say Suffolk, as a lot of the national flock have Suffolk in them)
    Would the resulting lambs shed their wool? Or would you need breed again off an easycare ram, for it to come through?

    They are Wiltshire horn and Welsh mountain but how many times with who to get the breed I dont know but I do know if you put them with another breed the lambs will inherit the other breeds qualities.

    Now whether you can mix breed again and again to keep what you want and get rid of what you do not........I honestly have no idea. But being as the originator the Welsh fella. I think he would have already tried this.

    I know one man who was crossing them with a Charollais to improve the rear end. If he was successful then I think he would have advertised such by now but I have seen he just advertises Easycare. But I have never seen him since.


  • #16
    123shooter
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 964 ✭✭✭123shooter


    Can I just add to this. An Easycare owner told me that farmers are reluctant/slow to change and try something new. Which me not being an original sheep farmer has a hard time understanding and I am trying to see why you may prefer other for no reason but just curiosity. :)


  • #17
    sheepfarmer92
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 241 ✭✭sheepfarmer92


    Have some easycares here and are crossing them onto our 12 to 1300 ewes to breed replacements from, only been experimenting with them the last few years as a sire for ewe lambs, will start to cross them in a big way this year as looking to buy 10 easycare rams to add to the 8 we already have,
    ALL sheep need some attention, some more than others, i would say the fact that the easycare lambs have a higher weight gain than our texel mules, have better feet and flesh just as easily are more of an advantage, also we can fully close the flock, before we were buying in some ewes every few years to breed more replacements, the no wool thing is just a bonus, there is f**k all money in producing wool, you take the labour and time involved along with the odd ewe getting cast it all adds up,
    i do believe they could still get flystrike just not as easily as wooly sheep
    Just too add, we plan to keep using some texels as terminal on the bottom end off the ewes and breed the best to the easycare


  • #18
    stantheman1979
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 435 ✭✭stantheman1979


    Run a flock of belclare/lleyn/romney ewes. Scan 1.9. Sell 60% of my lambs at 14 weeks off grass. Land is all fenced with sheep wire/barb as we've cattle also. Sheep are shorn in Feb and need to be done to go onto the slats they would be indoors anyway so no real hassle. No real foot problems as I've culled hard and sheep get foot bathed when ever they're in the yard. Ive a few hornys/halfbreds and very very rarely had to take one outta a fence!! I've worked hard last 10 yrs to get to this stage why in the name of god would I change to these sheep you're promoting


  • #19
    123shooter
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 964 ✭✭✭123shooter


    sheepfarmer92 wrote: »
    Have some easycares here and are crossing them onto our 12 to 1300 ewes to breed replacements from, only been experimenting with them the last few years as a sire for ewe lambs, will start to cross them in a big way this year as looking to buy 10 easycare rams to add to the 8 we already have,
    ALL sheep need some attention, some more than others, i would say the fact that the easycare lambs have a higher weight gain than our texel mules, have better feet and flesh just as easily are more of an advantage, also we can fully close the flock, before we were buying in some ewes every few years to breed more replacements, the no wool thing is just a bonus, there is f**k all money in producing wool, you take the labour and time involved along with the odd ewe getting cast it all adds up,
    i do believe they could still get flystrike just not as easily as wooly sheep
    Just too add, we plan to keep using some texels as terminal on the bottom end off the ewes and breed the best to the easycare

    I agree all sheep need attention.

    Are you keeping any Easycare as PB ?


  • #20
    123shooter
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 964 ✭✭✭123shooter


    stantheman1979 wrote: »
    Run a flock of belclare/lleyn/romney ewes. Scan 1.9. Sell 60% of my lambs at 14 weeks off grass. Land is all fenced with sheep wire/barb as we've cattle also. Sheep are shorn in Feb and need to be done to go onto the slats they would be indoors anyway so no real hassle. No real foot problems as I've culled hard and sheep get foot bathed when ever they're in the yard. Ive a few hornys/halfbreds and very very rarely had to take one outta a fence!! I've worked hard last 10 yrs to get to this stage why in the name of god would I change to these sheep you're promoting

    :) Please don't shoot.

    I am not promoting honestly. Me not being bought up as a sheep farmer fail to see the benefits of other sheep breeds unless you have a market for them and the facilities to keep and benefit from them.

    As I said I kept horny's and find these a lot better. But I admit I have never kept other breeds except the odd xcross with my hornys.


  • #21
    sheepfarmer92
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 241 ✭✭sheepfarmer92


    123shooter wrote: »
    I agree all sheep need attention.

    Are you keeping any Easycare as PB ?

    Well eventually they will be more or less pure but itl take a few years, were changing the system and moving to lambing most ewes outside and increasing numbers, the neighbour keeps about 500 pure and sells a lot of rams and they scan 1.7 1.8


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  • #22
    Username John
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,237 ✭✭✭Username John


    123shooter wrote: »
    :) Please don't shoot.

    I am not promoting honestly. Me not being bought up as a sheep farmer fail to see the benefits of other sheep breeds unless you have a market for them and the facilities to keep and benefit from them.

    As I said I kept horny's and find these a lot better. But I admit I have never kept other breeds except the odd xcross with my hornys.

    The biggest benefit is other sheep grow faster... ;)


  • #23
    123shooter
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 964 ✭✭✭123shooter


    Username John wrote: »
    The biggest benefit is other sheep grow faster... ;)

    I see......But with the extra costs and extra work are you better off or not? There must be a reason why somebody went to so much trouble?


  • #24
    Ard_MC
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 515 ✭✭✭Ard_MC


    123shooter wrote: »
    :) Please don't shoot.

    I am not promoting honestly. Me not being bought up as a sheep farmer fail to see the benefits of other sheep breeds unless you have a market for them and the facilities to keep and benefit from them.

    As I said I kept horny's and find these a lot better. But I admit I have never kept other breeds except the odd xcross with my hornys.

    U run them on commonage shooter? Like heather and bog hills? Can they beat the hornys in that environment? Cant see them workin on commonage as wool shedding means mark shedding i guess?!!


  • #25
    123shooter
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 964 ✭✭✭123shooter


    Ard_MC wrote: »
    U run them on commonage shooter? Like heather and bog hills? Can they beat the hornys in that environment? Cant see them workin on commonage as wool shedding means mark shedding i guess?!!

    On hill land and bog in summer.


  • #26
    stantheman1979
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 435 ✭✭stantheman1979


    Fail to see what you're promoting. I can't see the benefit of a ewe that scans 1.4 and produces a lamb with a 17kg carcass or a store. Is it easy care or a Wiltshire horn/Welsh u have I'm confused


  • #27
    123shooter
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 964 ✭✭✭123shooter


    stantheman1979 wrote: »
    Fail to see what you're promoting. I can't see the benefit of a ewe that scans 1.4 and produces a lamb with a 17kg carcass or a store. Is it easy care or a Wiltshire horn/Welsh u have I'm confused

    So am I.


  • #28
    Username John
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,237 ✭✭✭Username John


    123shooter wrote: »
    I see......But with the extra costs and extra work are you better off or not? There must be a reason why somebody went to so much trouble?

    But it's one days extra work (shearing) vs having lambs around for an extra few weeks maybe...

    Maybe an extra dose for the easy care lambs cow they are that bit longer, plus minding em for another few weeks... plus potentially less money for the east are lambs as the season goes on the price drops...

    As I said - am sure there is a place for them, depending on your system. But I don't think they suit everyone...


  • #29
    123shooter
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 964 ✭✭✭123shooter


    Username John wrote: »
    But it's one days extra work (shearing) vs having lambs around for an extra few weeks maybe...

    Maybe an extra dose for the easy care lambs cow they are that bit longer, plus minding em for another few weeks... plus potentially less money for the east are lambs as the season goes on the price drops...

    As I said - am sure there is a place for them, depending on your system. But I don't think they suit everyone...

    Cheers John I understand.:cool:


  • #30
    Green farmer
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,004 ✭✭✭Green farmer


    was looking at my weaned lambs yesterday. All varying sizes. Amongst the runts were Charolais and llyens. At the other end of the scale The best were also llyens and Charolais. Surprised me really, so by process of elimination it has to be down to the ewes and whether they have done their job right or not. So I'm open minded and will try whatever breed will give me the best results possible with limited labour. Good ewes that will spit out hardy lambs at close to 200% as possible. Whether it be llyens / nz romneys / Easycare .


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  • #31
    Green farmer
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,004 ✭✭✭Green farmer


    here the link. Ye can make up yer own minds


    https://youtu.be/fKaF8FRR8-M


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