So it's the 12th of July tomorrow. Will the North ever not be sectarian?

FrancieBrady · 13-07-2017 09:38PM

timthumbni wrote: »

Very true...

Still hurting there Tim?

timthumbni · 13-07-2017 09:38PM

Junkyard Tom wrote: »

Out of interest, how would you react if the majority voted for unification?

I would phone social services.......

munsterlegend · 13-07-2017 09:40PM

timthumbni wrote: »

I would phone social services.......

Make sure you have the right number - 01...

timthumbni · 13-07-2017 09:43PM

Junkyard Tom wrote: »

Out of interest, how would you react if the majority voted for unification?

Seriously I have no idea. I haven't put a lot of thought into it. I don't see it will be anything that I will have to worry about in my lifetime so that's why I haven't concerned myself with it.

It certainly wouldn't be like an east/west Germany scenario. I know your houses are worth a few more euros maybe (aside from the ghost estates) but otherwise there isn't much else to envy (that we haven't already got I mean by that)

It's a hard sell re a UI for unionists. In fact ye could be hard pushed persuading the bulk of ni nationalists even. A lot work in the ni public sector. I wouldn't go banking on their votes for a start..

timthumbni · 13-07-2017 09:47PM

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Still hurting there Tim?

Aye. I'm hurting like you on a 12th bouncy castle. Whilst being face painted..... I imagine you like colonel Kurtz rubbing your head screaming "the horror, the horror......." ha.

FrancieBrady · 13-07-2017 09:51PM

Junkyard Tom wrote: »

Out of interest, how would you react if the majority voted for unification?

Never, never, never....well maybe?

Most unionists will do that based on the history of northern Ireland.

timthumbni · 13-07-2017 09:55PM

munsterlegend wrote: »

Make sure you have the right number - 01...

I would just pm that poster on here who phones them every day thanks. I'm sure he has the number off by heart.

munsterlegend · 13-07-2017 10:03PM

timthumbni wrote: »

Seriously I have no idea. I haven't put a lot of thought into it. I don't see it will be anything that I will have to worry about in my lifetime so that's why I haven't concerned myself with it.

It certainly wouldn't be like an east/west Germany scenario. I know your houses are worth a few more euros maybe (aside from the ghost estates) but otherwise there isn't much else to envy (that we haven't already got I mean by that)

It's a hard sell re a UI for unionists. In fact ye could be hard pushed persuading the bulk of ni nationalists even. A lot work in the ni public sector. I wouldn't go banking on their votes for a start..

Far better jobs down here and investment. The public service up there is a short term solution to keep the place afloat.

Good article here by an economist outlining the reality of NI economy or whatever it is.

http://www.davidmcwilliams.ie/2017/06/27/despite-the-duptory-deal-today-united-ireland-is-on-the-cards-we-must-have-a-plan

FrancieBrady · 13-07-2017 10:09PM

munsterlegend wrote: »

Far better jobs down here and investment. The public service up there is a short term solution to keep the place afloat.

Good article here by an economist outlining the reality of NI economy or whatever it is.

http://www.davidmcwilliams.ie/2017/06/27/despite-the-duptory-deal-today-united-ireland-is-on-the-cards-we-must-have-a-plan

Partition was a short term solution and as expected it failed. The Orange state failed miserably on so many levels and is on life support, propped up by a stagnant international agreement and two disinterested governments, one of which (The british) patently doesn't care.

Syphonax · 13-07-2017 10:14PM

munsterlegend wrote: »

Far better jobs down here and investment. The public service up there is a short term solution to keep the place afloat.

Good article here by an economist outlining the reality of NI economy or whatever it is.

http://www.davidmcwilliams.ie/2017/06/27/despite-the-duptory-deal-today-united-ireland-is-on-the-cards-we-must-have-a-plan

Thats actually the beginning of the formation of stable government not mere jobs for hire.

Junkyard Tom · 13-07-2017 10:17PM

timthumbni wrote: »

It's a hard sell re a UI for unionists. In fact ye could be hard pushed persuading the bulk of ni nationalists even. A lot work in the ni public sector. I wouldn't go banking on their votes for a start..

Yeah I agree, I reckon a border poll would be well defeated on the unification issue, in the short term at least. I could imagine the devolved assembly remaining in place even in the event of a pro UI vote.

timthumbni · 13-07-2017 10:20PM

munsterlegend wrote: »

Far better jobs down here and investment. The public service up there is a short term solution to keep the place afloat.

Good article here by an economist outlining the reality of NI economy or whatever it is.

http://www.davidmcwilliams.ie/2017/06/27/despite-the-duptory-deal-today-united-ireland-is-on-the-cards-we-must-have-a-plan

We saw just how strong the so called Celtic tiger economy was a few years back. Turned out to be more of a kitten in the end. Didn't the pesky brits have to lend youse a few bob so as you could keep the lights on????

Republicans can be very right wing when it suits them..... Investment in the republic was/is down to tax breaks/dodges/incentives funded from public money to attract foreign companies. Who knows how long that will last. If that goes the republic will be a busted flush again.

FrancieBrady · 13-07-2017 10:25PM

munsterlegend wrote: »

Far better jobs down here and investment. The public service up there is a short term solution to keep the place afloat.

Good article here by an economist outlining the reality of NI economy or whatever it is.

http://www.davidmcwilliams.ie/2017/06/27/despite-the-duptory-deal-today-united-ireland-is-on-the-cards-we-must-have-a-plan

He makes one claim that is on the money. People with children will vote for their futures.
And in that regard Brexit is a game changer. For nationalists there is the added incentive of diminishing and diluting further the intimidation and suprematism and sectarianism of the Orange order.

timthumbni · 13-07-2017 10:25PM

Junkyard Tom wrote: »

Yeah I agree, I reckon a border poll would be well defeated on the unification issue, in the short term at least. I could imagine the devolved assembly remaining in place even in the event of a pro UI vote.

That's if a devolved assembly is in place of course.........

bear1 · 13-07-2017 10:27PM

timthumbni wrote: »

We saw just how strong the so called Celtic tiger economy was a few years back. Turned out to be more of a kitten in the end. Didn't the pesky brits have to lend youse a few bob so as you could keep the lights on????

Republicans can be very right wing when it suits them..... Investment in the republic was/is down to tax breaks/dodges/incentives funded from public money to attract foreign companies. Who knows how long that will last. If that goes the republic will be a busted flush again.

That's a very blind way of looking at things.
You can hardly proclaim the north as having a viable economy?
The Brits lent us money to keep the lights on? A 1 time event? Sure aren't they handing you lot a fortune every year and still having a deficit as an outcome? If they remove that Grant per year plus what you'll lose from the eu you'll be lucky to have light bulbs.
But hey, the northerners don't mind if we finance their motorways though huh?
Exactly why I would vote against ever having a UI, waste of utter bloody money.

FrancieBrady · 13-07-2017 10:28PM

timthumbni wrote: »

We saw just how strong the so called Celtic tiger economy was a few years back. Turned out to be more of a kitten in the end. Didn't the pesky brits have to lend youse a few bob so as you could keep the lights on????

Republicans can be very right wing when it suits them..... Investment in the republic was/is down to tax breaks/dodges/incentives funded from public money to attract foreign companies. Who knows how long that will last. If that goes the republic will be a busted flush again.

The UK was a busted flush before they got into the EU and had to be bailed out. How much of a subvention/bail out do you think you would get if that happens again after Brexit?

smeal · 13-07-2017 10:38PM

FrancieBrady wrote: »

The Orange Order is not there as a 'celebration' of Protestantism, it is there to defend it and to oppose Catholicism.
An important distinction and why we are where we are.

100%. This brings me back to my previous post on how many Unionists would be against Catholics attending the parades.

I think its fair to say that not one person in this thread is against the celebration of Protestantism. I personally like to see different communities expressing their cultures- it makes for interesting watching and brings cultures together. Even though my mother is a Northern Protestant, I wouldn't be comfortable at a parade or a band party.

Take the Pride parades for example, would you see LGBT members singing hate songs about non LGBT people? Similarly, I would absolutely welcome Unionist people to join in St Patrick's day just as much I would like to see a Muslim person or another denomination join in. Celebrations of cultures generally bring people together.

A major fault lies with Unionist ethos churches, schools and politicians- the three main pillars of any community. Once they start promoting a joint and equal community I think you'd find that it wouldn't be long before people's minds would start opening a bit. Take Arlene Foster's pre-12th July bonfire statement for example. Instead of standing up and saying something along the lines of "Bonfires are an important part of our culture however racist or sectarian symbols will not be tolerated" she comes out with this..... (UTV credit) " she addressed the issue of bonfires and said they had “long been part of the unionist culture”.

She added: “Those who have waged a campaign of demonisation against such celebrations should dial down the rhetoric.

“To those who build bonfires, I urge them to not play into the hands of those who want to demonise the culture"...

*facepalm*

timthumbni · 13-07-2017 10:39PM

bear1 wrote: »

That's a very blind way of looking at things.
You can hardly proclaim the north as having a viable economy?
The Brits lent us money to keep the lights on? A 1 time event? Sure aren't they handing you lot a fortune every year and still having a deficit as an outcome? If they remove that Grant per year plus what you'll lose from the eu you'll be lucky to have light bulbs.
But hey, the northerners don't mind if we finance their motorways though huh?
Exactly why I would vote against ever having a UI, waste of utter bloody money.

I'm not being blind. I was merely pointing out that republicans bumming up the south as some sort of economic paradise is very wishful thinking. As I said before this isn't some east/west German scenario where one country's needs can be met with being able to buy a pair of Levi's 501s.

NI is not envious of the republic. Not in any way. I've never in my life heard anyone nationalist or republican or unionist or none saying they wish they lived down south because they get x or y, let's get united....

That avenue of enticement is likely closed for unification. Nationalists need to find another way or ways and I have yet to hear any.

bear1 · 13-07-2017 10:43PM

timthumbni wrote: »

I'm not being blind. I was merely pointing out that republicans bumming up the south as some sort of ecominic paradise is very wishful thinking. As I said before this isn't some east/west German scenario where one country's needs can be met with being able to buy a pair of Levi's 501s.

NI is not envious of the republic. Not in any way. I've never in my life heard anyone nationalist or republican or unionist or none saying they wish they lived down south because they get x or y, let's get united....

That avenue of enticement is likely closed for unification. Nationalists need to find another way or ways and I have yet to hear any.

You seem to think that it's only up to you whether a UI happens.
We also have to agree.. and I can't see any value of incorporating the north with the rest of us.
Likewise I have yet to hear anyone be envious of the north.

Sofiztikated · 13-07-2017 10:47PM

smeal wrote: »

100%. This brings me back to my previous post on how many Unionists would be against Catholics attending the parades.

I think its fair to say that not one person in this thread is against the celebration of Protestantism. I personally like to see different communities expressing their cultures- it makes for interesting watching and brings cultures together. Even though my mother is a Northern Protestant, I wouldn't be comfortable at a parade or a band party.

Take the Pride parades for example, would you see LGBT members singing hate songs about non LGBT people? Similarly, I would absolutely welcome Unionist people to join in St Patrick's day just as much I would like to see a Muslim person or another denomination join in. Celebrations of cultures generally bring people together.

A major fault lies with Unionist ethos churches, schools and politicians- the three main pillars of any community. Once they start promoting a joint and equal community I think you'd find that it wouldn't be long before people's minds would start opening a bit. Take Arlene Foster's pre-12th July bonfire statement for example. Instead of standing up and saying something along the lines of "Bonfires are an important part of our culture however racist or sectarian symbols will not be tolerated" she comes out with this..... (UTV credit) " she addressed the issue of bonfires and said they had “long been part of the unionist culture”.

She added: “Those who have waged a campaign of demonisation against such celebrations should dial down the rhetoric.

“To those who build bonfires, I urge them to not play into the hands of those who want to demonise the culture"...

*facepalm*

Basically, she said, "Don't let them win."

13-07-2017 10:48PM

Junkyard Tom wrote: »

No. Here's 'The Pride of Ardoyne' singing it a few years ago. I've very little doubt it still goes on.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2ivJaTFZ26k

The utter idiocy of people who describe themselves as 'British Only', having not lived there for generations, telling Irish people from Ireland to 'go home' is lost on these poor dimwits.

I actually laughed when I watched that.

It's beyond stupid, and looking at the age of those doing the singing, you'd think they'd have better sense, tbh.

FrancieBrady · 13-07-2017 10:49PM

timthumbni wrote: »

I'm not being blind. I was merely pointing out that republicans bumming up the south as some sort of ecominic paradise is very wishful thinking. As I said before this isn't some east/west German scenario where one country's needs can be met with being able to buy a pair of Levi's 501s.

Oh dear. Let's throw another Daily Mail style stereotype/cliche into the mix. German reunification worked because everyone paid for it and put up with austerity because they were convinced that they would be better off in the long term. How did that work out?

NI is not envious of the republic. Not in any way. I've never in my life heard anyone nationalist or republican or unionist or none saying they wish they lived down south because they get x or y, let's get united....

That avenue of enticement is likely closed for unification. Nationalists need to find another way or ways and I have yet to hear any.

I recently spoke to a high ranking civil servant (from your community BTW) and a department official and they were practically foaming at the mouth at the amount of money we had to spend on infrastructure even in post Celtic Tiger days.
Watch the farming community before and immediately after Brexit do the same.

Times are changing Tim.

timthumbni · 13-07-2017 10:51PM

bear1 wrote: »

You seem to think that it's only up to you whether a UI happens.
We also have to agree.. and I can't see any value of incorporating the north with the rest of us.
Likewise I have yet to hear anyone be envious of the north.

I'm a unionist from NI. If you lot down in the republic don't want us then happy days.

I don't expect anyone from where you live to be envious of us in Norn Iron. It's others on here who seem to think we in NI should yearn to be down there for all the "better jobs" whatever that means.

The only EU country I envy is Spain and that's for its splendid weather.

bear1 · 13-07-2017 11:00PM

timthumbni wrote: »

I'm a unionist from NI. If you lot down in the republic don't want us then happy days.

I don't expect anyone from where you live to be envious of us in Norn Iron. It's others on here who seem to think we in NI should yearn to be down there for all the "better jobs" whatever that means.

The only EU country I envy is Spain and that's for its splendid weather.

I Think youll find that both sides are at this Dick swinging.
The main thing here is that you all seem to be stuck in the past with how you view the rest of us.
You could probably argue that we are too but are we dedicating 1 or 2 days to burning the **** out of flags? Coffins and calling black footballers monkeys?
No. We've a country to run.
At the end of the day we are all on the same island, always have and always will.
If and it's a big if both sides of the border decide it's time we all unite then this idiotic bitterness and bigotry needs to be buried once and for all.
In 2 years you will no longer be an eu country, will Scotland try and leave? Probably and that's when things will be interesting.
Never mind a hard border between north and south.

FrancieBrady · 13-07-2017 11:06PM

bear1 wrote: »

I Think youll find that both sides are at this Dick swinging.
The main thing here is that you all seem to be stuck in the past with how you view the rest of us.
You could probably argue that we are too but are we dedicating 1 or 2 days to burning the **** out of flags? Coffins and calling black footballers monkeys?
No. We've a country to run.
At the end of the day we are all on the same island, always have and always will.
If and it's a big if both sides of the border decide it's time we all unite then this idiotic bitterness and bigotry needs to be buried once and for all.
In 2 years you will no longer be an eu country, will Scotland try and leave? Probably and that's when things will be interesting.
Never mind a hard border between north and south.

The point is that Brexit is very quickly making it an imperative to unite.
The subject is on the agenda, like it or not.

timthumbni · 13-07-2017 11:28PM

bear1 wrote: »

I Think youll find that both sides are at this Dick swinging.
The main thing here is that you all seem to be stuck in the past with how you view the rest of us.
You could probably argue that we are too but are we dedicating 1 or 2 days to burning the **** out of flags? Coffins and calling black footballers monkeys?
No. We've a country to run.
At the end of the day we are all on the same island, always have and always will.
If and it's a big if both sides of the border decide it's time we all unite then this idiotic bitterness and bigotry needs to be buried once and for all.
In 2 years you will no longer be an eu country, will Scotland try and leave? Probably and that's when things will be interesting.
Never mind a hard border between north and south.

The mcguiness coffin was stupid and uncalled for. Though it has to be remembered that mcguiness was a self confessed leader of a terrorist organisation that murdered many, many unionists. Men,women and children when it suited them. I shed no tears when that so called man passed I promise you. He shed no tears for the many, many victims of the IRA.

The Sinclair slogan was again idiotic. During my walk to work in Belfast every day I pass 3 KAH slogans spayed on walls. kAH stands for KILL ALL HUNS btw. A slang term for prods in NI. I don't hold that against the entire catholic community. Rather just a few idiots.

timthumbni · 13-07-2017 11:32PM

Deleted User wrote: »

I actually laughed when I watched that.

It's beyond stupid, and looking at the age of those doing the singing, you'd think they'd have better sense, tbh.

That song was made up in Glasgow and was directed at Celtic supporters to wind them up. Sort of the same way the Celtic supporters hung a rangers fan in a noose effigy recently in one of their games.

I agree it was a idiotic thing for a band from NI to sing in Belfast. The world is full of idiots though. The only sure thing in life is death, taxes and a massive amount of idiots.

FrancieBrady · 13-07-2017 11:42PM

Whataboutery will not diminish the biggest expression of sectarianism and bigotry on these islands. Nor the role of the OO in promoting it.

timthumbni · 13-07-2017 11:46PM

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Whataboutery will not diminish the biggest expression of sectarianism and bigotry on these islands. Nor the role of the OO in promoting it.

Have you ever been to a Sinn Fein ard fheis???? Actually don't bother with that one....

Junkyard Tom · 13-07-2017 11:49PM

The Orange Order is in decline thankfully. I'd imagine the marching thing will begin to decline too now that the windupery aspect has been largely eliminated by the Parades Commission. It's not as much craic taunting them'uns when you're not allowed to march through their communities.

I just noticed that windupery (is that a word? a portmanteau?) has winDUPery in its midst.

So it's the 12th of July tomorrow. Will the North ever not be sectarian?

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