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HGV Versus Cyclist Road Rage

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Comments

  • #152
    tomasrojo
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,947 ✭✭✭✭tomasrojo


    Falcon L wrote: »
    So do cyclists.

    They don't really. It's actually pretty uncommon.

    Of course, if you don't go up the inside of a HGV at a junction, your odds are even better.


  • #153
    beauf
    Closed Accounts Posts: 22,461 ✭✭✭✭beauf


    Falcon L wrote: »
    ...or HGVs

    Hence city bans.


  • #154
    Bushmanpm
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 191 ✭✭Bushmanpm


    tomasrojo wrote:
    Sorry, what was your question?

    Take your pick from this:
    Bushmanpm wrote:
    LGV's can be permitted off peak? Have you ever driven in London? There is no off peak. And why should they anyway? To accommodate braindead morons who can't/won't obey the traffic laws? And what about their driving hours on their tacho? And what about the extra wages in overtime? Just because of dumb cyclists? How about cyclists just do it as they're supposed to and there wouldn't be any issues?

    tomasrojo wrote:
    As I said, they also kill entirely blameless people. And the death penalty for being careless or momentarily thoughtless is a bit harsh.


    Entirely blameless people don't use a left turn only lane to go straight ahead. If anyone killed by a lorry, car, bus or any other motor vehicle is entirely blameless there would be far more prosecutions for causing death by dangerous driving. As for those who are careless, should they be on a cycle on the roads? You certainly wouldn't want someone careless behind the wheel of a LGV.


  • #155
    tomasrojo
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,947 ✭✭✭✭tomasrojo


    I answered most of those.

    The ones that weren't rhetorical questions anyway.
    You certainly wouldn't want someone careless behind the wheel of a LGV.

    You don't read the news, perhaps.


  • #156
    tomasrojo
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,947 ✭✭✭✭tomasrojo


    Just out of interest, is it your contention, since you've posted the question twice, that traffic in London is equally as heavy at all times?


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  • #157
    deandean
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,368 ✭✭✭deandean


    That trucker knew full well what he was doing and what was around him.
    Watch the video again. He got out of the cab and was able to give an accurate account of where the cyclists were, and the fact that they were in a left-turn lane etc while he was waiting for the green light.
    I think the cyclists were caught out by the rapid acceleration of the truck - maybe the trailer was empty - as well as the bunching up of a few of them. Usually the cyclists would be safely ahead of the truck at that pinch point.


  • #158
    dense
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,175 ✭✭✭dense


    Falcon L wrote: »
    Yes, I would consider their actions as bullying. They were happy to put their squishy bodies on the line thinking that the truck driver would take evasive action and they would have "won" that piece of road.


    Cyclists shouldn't play chicken with other vehicles.
    If it had been a group of scruffy motorcyclists behaving as the cyclists did there'd be no sympathy for them or the 'victim'.
    It would be a case of serves them right.

    Cyclists want it every way, everyone else looking out for them except themselves.


  • #159
    beauf
    Closed Accounts Posts: 22,461 ✭✭✭✭beauf


    dense wrote: »
    Cyclists shouldn't play chicken with other vehicles.
    If it had been a group of scruffy motorcyclists behaving as the cyclists did there'd be no sympathy for them or the 'victim'.
    It would be a case of serves them right.

    Cyclists want it every way, everyone else looking out for them except themselves.

    There was no sympathy here for cyclists either.

    You're looking for bias where there is none.


  • #160
    Bushmanpm
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 191 ✭✭Bushmanpm


    dense wrote:
    Cyclists shouldn't play chicken with other vehicles. If it had been a group of scruffy motorcyclists behaving as the cyclists did there'd be no sympathy for them or the 'victim'. It would be a case of serves them right.

    Can you imagine what boards would be like if bikers vented every time a biker was killed? Except they are not cry baby whinge pussies.
    dense wrote:
    Cyclists want it every way, everyone else looking out for them except themselves.

    I concluded long ago that a fair proportion of them want all the rights of being on the road but with none of the responsibilities.


  • #161
    beauf
    Closed Accounts Posts: 22,461 ✭✭✭✭beauf


    Bushmanpm wrote: »
    Can you imagine what boards would be like if bikers vented every time a biker was killed? Except they are not cry baby whinge pussies.

    I concluded long ago that a fair proportion of them want all the rights of being on the road but with none of the responsibilities.


    Maybe the cycling forum should copy the bikes charter...
    if you have nothing helpful or constructive to add to a thread and are simply trolling a "two wheels bad four wheels good" line or winding up those who ride, then you will be banned from all Motors forums.


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  • #162
    CramCycle
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 26,064 Mod ✭✭✭✭CramCycle


    dense wrote: »
    Cyclists want it every way, everyone else looking out for them except themselves.
    Have you read any of the posts by cyclists in this thread. Every single post bar the OP have lambasted the cyclists in the video.
    Bushmanpm wrote: »
    Can you imagine what boards would be like if bikers vented every time a biker was killed? Except they are not cry baby whinge pussies.
    Very manly
    I concluded long ago that a fair proportion of them want all the rights of being on the road but with none of the responsibilities.
    Cyclists have all the rights of being on the road, same as everyone else. The only thing most of us want is none of the BS us vs. them attitude. Thankfully it seems to be a minority with that attitude but unfortunately that minority seem to have loudspeakers and are assh0les. The responsibilities are there already for us. Much like bikers, the responsibility is obvious.

    I'll live with it for now. The smug attitude keeps me going :pac:


  • #163
    Unknown Soldier
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,122 ✭✭✭Unknown Soldier


    deandean wrote: »
    That trucker knew full well what he was doing and what was around him.
    Watch the video again. He got out of the cab and was able to give an accurate account of where the cyclists were, and the fact that they were in a left-turn lane etc while he was waiting for the green light.
    I think the cyclists were caught out by the rapid acceleration of the truck - maybe the trailer was empty - as well as the bunching up of a few of them. Usually the cyclists would be safely ahead of the truck at that pinch point.

    Totally agree. The cyclists were in the wrong.

    NIMBY's would probably argue differently, and I have not read the whole thread.

    That bloke is lucky to be alive tbh.


  • #164
    Carlos Orange
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,499 ✭✭✭Carlos Orange


    deandean wrote: »
    I think the cyclists were caught out by the rapid acceleration of the truck - maybe the trailer was empty - as well as the bunching up of a few of them. Usually the cyclists would be safely ahead of the truck at that pinch point.

    Maybe cyclists shouldn't make life and death decisions based on their capability to judge how fast trucks can accelerate.


  • #165
    Bushmanpm
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 191 ✭✭Bushmanpm


    CramCycle wrote:
    I'll live with it for now. The smug attitude keeps me going


    Fair play to ya, I prefer 955cc of fuel injected Triumph to keep me going ;-)


  • #166
    CramCycle
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 26,064 Mod ✭✭✭✭CramCycle


    Bushmanpm wrote: »
    Fair play to ya, I prefer 955cc of fuel injected Triumph to keep me going ;-)

    Haven't ridden a motorbike in 15years, used to love it, probably still do. Nothing with much power though.


  • #167
    Bushmanpm
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 191 ✭✭Bushmanpm


    CramCycle wrote:
    Haven't ridden a motorbike in 15years, used to love it, probably still do. Nothing with much power though.


    As much as I also love cars and driving, there's something that extra bit special about two wheels, whether I'm on a motorbike or a cycle


  • #168
    lucernarian
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,236 ✭✭✭lucernarian


    Apologies if it's been mentioned, but there's a part of the Dublin quays (on/past Ellis quay I think) where the road suddenly offers a "left turn only" lane and you have to put your life into your hands to get to the middle lane, if the traffic is flowing. I think if the lights were red, I would definitely not remain in the left turn only lane beside a truck either there or in the example in the OP


  • #169
    asteroids over berlin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,113 ✭✭✭asteroids over berlin


    One of my best mates died turning a corner - knocked off his bike and the HGV ran over his chest. I would hope in this video the driver didn't see the cyclist and the cyclist did not play chicken with the HGV. it's no game!


  • #170
    dense
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,175 ✭✭✭dense


    CramCycle wrote: »
    Have you read any of the posts by cyclists in this thread. Every single post bar the OP have lambasted the cyclists in the video.
    Very manly

    Cyclists have all the rights of being on the road, same as everyone else. The only thing most of us want is none of the BS us vs. them attitude. Thankfully it seems to be a minority with that attitude but unfortunately that minority seem to have loudspeakers and are assh0les. The responsibilities are there already for us. Much like bikers, the responsibility is obvious.

    I'll live with it for now. The smug attitude keeps me going :pac:

    Unfortunately, many, (not all) cyclists act as if they're playing the vulnerable card mingling with fast moving traffifc hoping the high moral ground will save their ass - I'll do what I want, everyones going to do everything to avoid hitting me even if I pull stupid stunts like in the video.

    Unfortunately many find out too late that it's a risky game.

    I cycle, but I wouldn't have the nerve to try to be assertive or "own the road", to even pull broadside with a vehicle that I have no confidence the driver can even see me.

    Does that make me a wimp on wheels? Probably, but one that isn't going under the wheels by expecting someone else not to miss me in their mirror.

    If a certain road and it's traffic is too dangerous to cycle on, is it worth the risk?

    Would you recommend say a novice cyclist to use such a road?


  • #171
    beauf
    Closed Accounts Posts: 22,461 ✭✭✭✭beauf


    dense wrote: »
    ...
    If a certain road and it's traffic is too dangerous to cycle on, is it worth the risk?

    Would you recommend say a novice cyclist to use such a road?

    Give us the accident stats on the road you mean then judge.

    Otherwise you're just listening to chinese whispers.


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  • #172
    TallGlass
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,906 ✭✭✭TallGlass


    Late to this but I am sure most has been posted but, I think all involved should count themselves lucky, that either they didn't kill someone or got injured or killed.

    It goes without saying. Drivers make mistakes, cyclists make mistakes. Either one can be fatal more so for the cyclist. We need to look after one another on the roads. And stop with the mentality of them vs us. Use common sense if someone is driving like an idiot then pull back, get out of that situation, don't put yourself in harms way to prove a point. Not all drivers are good either, don't assume they are or even they they know what they are doing.

    If you take anything from this. Don't pull up along side a stopped HGV, stay behind or out in front. I would even go as a far as saying don't pull up beside one while moving over junctions, it could decide to turn left or right without indicating.

    And never assume either than someone has seen you either or they will do a or b.


  • #173
    dense
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,175 ✭✭✭dense


    beauf wrote: »
    Give us the accident stats on the road you mean then judge.

    Otherwise you're just listening to chinese whispers.

    You mean cyclist death rates don't you? I don't have them and we could argue about what a novice is and at what point one ceases to be a novice cyclist.
    Point is moot.
    Would you recommend a novice to pull alongside a stopped artic at a junction?
    Personally I wouldn't.


  • #174
    ThisRegard
    Closed Accounts Posts: 27,833 ✭✭✭✭ThisRegard


    What's hilarious is that right from the start of this thread, and the previous one a week or two ago, posters have been pretty much unanimous that cyclists were in the wrong.

    And yet you still get posters posting against cyclists just for the sake of argument it appears.


  • #175
    Slattsy
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,775 ✭✭✭✭Slattsy


    What clowns think that's anything but the cyclists fault.


  • #176
    ThisRegard
    Closed Accounts Posts: 27,833 ✭✭✭✭ThisRegard


    Slattsy wrote: »
    What clowns think that's anything but the cyclists fault.

    Probably none, but it doesn't stop other clowns looking for an argument and trotting out how cyclists play the victim, and the normal crap such things attract.


  • #177
    Falcon L
    Closed Accounts Posts: 848 ✭✭✭Falcon L


    I'm all for losing the "us V them" attitude. It's going to be hard to lose though when you see the cyclists in that video rallying round the clown who put his life in danger. Why didn't the camera owner approach the truck driver and offer him the video? Why did he go to the other cyclist and say he has it all captured?

    Until cyclists support motorists when they are in the right, and vice versa, nothing will change. I believe most motorists would call out another driver if they made a mistake involving a cyclist. I wouldn't be confident it would work the other way.


  • #178
    ThisRegard
    Closed Accounts Posts: 27,833 ✭✭✭✭ThisRegard


    I haven't watched it in ages, but I think it was just 1 cyclist who 'rallied' around, the rest left.

    But you're yet another poster holding up the actions of the 1 cyclist as a yardstick to all others. If you really want to know why the cyclist with the camera did what he did, contact him via the YouTube page.

    Why do you think anyone here can answer for him?


  • #179
    CramCycle
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 26,064 Mod ✭✭✭✭CramCycle


    dense wrote: »
    Unfortunately, many, (not all) cyclists act as if they're playing the vulnerable card mingling with fast moving traffifc hoping the high moral ground will save their ass - I'll do what I want, everyones going to do everything to avoid hitting me even if I pull stupid stunts like in the video.

    MOD VOICE: Using the word many does not get you around the generalisations rule for this forum. As far as I can tell, every poster bar one has decried the cyclists as being 100% in the wrong. Any questions via PM.


  • #180
    amcalester
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,097 ✭✭✭amcalester


    Falcon L wrote: »
    I'm all for losing the "us V them" attitude. It's going to be hard to lose though when you see the cyclists in that video rallying round the clown who put his life in danger. Why didn't the camera owner approach the truck driver and offer him the video? Why did he go to the other cyclist and say he has it all captured?

    Until cyclists support motorists when they are in the right, and vice versa, nothing will change. I believe most motorists would call out another driver if they made a mistake involving a cyclist. I wouldn't be confident it would work the other way.

    I think all you can infer from that clip is that the cam-cyclist is just as much of an idiot as the cyclists who went up the side of the HGV.

    It's a bit unfair to say that all (or most, or even some) cyclists will automatically side with another cyclists in the event of an accident just because they're both cyclists. All we know is that one cyclist did in this case.

    Perhaps the reason that cyclists side with other cyclists is that research shows that in the majority of cases the motorist is at fault.

    In London it is 68% motorist fault, 20% cyclists fault and 12% no fault or both at fault. In Vancouver it's 93% motorists at fault.

    Adelaide is 79% motorists at fault and 21% cyclists.


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  • #181
    Falcon L
    Closed Accounts Posts: 848 ✭✭✭Falcon L


    ThisRegard wrote: »
    I haven't watched it in ages, but I think it was just 1 cyclist who 'rallied' around, the rest left.

    But you're yet another poster holding up the actions of the 1 cyclist as a yardstick to all others. If you really want to know why the cyclist with the camera did what he did, contact him via the YouTube page.

    Why do you think anyone here can answer for him?
    But it wasn't just 1 cyclist, was it? The whole group were in the wrong. I have no doubt that it's the same at every light change at that junction and many, many like it.

    It was a rhetorical question. I already know the answer. I suspect you do too.


This discussion has been closed.
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