Apple Athenry data centre

weshtawake · 11-07-2017 2:07pm #1

What a great country when a couple of crank objectors can scuttle plans for a multi Euro "green" investment by one of the biggest corporations in the world. One of the objectors I note lives in Wicklow where, obviously, he would be seriously impacted by the development....not!

westgolf · 11-07-2017 7:17pm

weshtawake wrote: »

What a great country when a couple of crank objectors can scuttle plans for a multi Euro "green" investment by one of the biggest corporations in the world. One of the objectors I note lives in Wicklow where, obviously, he would be seriously impacted by the development....not!

And he has also objected to another data center in North Dublin.

stampydmonkey · 11-07-2017 8:14pm

westgolf wrote: »

And he has also objected to another data center in North Dublin.

Is that Mr. Sweetman?

cfeeneyinterior · 11-07-2017 10:19pm

stampydmonkey wrote: »

Is that Mr. Sweetman?

https://www.siliconrepublic.com/companies/athenry-apple-data-centre-verdict-postponed

"Two years ago, Apple announced its plans to build an €850m data centre in Athenry. A sister data centre was also announced for Denmark.

Two years on, the Danish data centre is almost complete, while not one sod has been turned on the Athenry project."

cfeeneyinterior · 11-07-2017 10:22pm

cfeeneyinterior wrote: »

https://www.siliconrepublic.com/companies/athenry-apple-data-centre-verdict-postponed

"Two years ago, Apple announced its plans to build an €850m data centre in Athenry. A sister data centre was also announced for Denmark.

Two years on, the Danish data centre is almost complete, while not one sod has been turned on the Athenry project."

On hold ... Fair play to them..... P#*CK

https://www.irishtimes.com/business/technology/second-danish-centre-for-apple-with-galway-facility-on-hold-1.3149472?mode=amp

inisboffin · 11-07-2017 11:08pm

Wait, wasn't all this about Athenry?
Is there something else planned for the City?

12-07-2017 8:11am

Looking more risky ?

https://www.irishtimes.com/business/technology/galway-businesses-concerned-apple-centre-may-be-shelved-1.3150706

dilallio · 12-07-2017 8:31am

The guy in Wicklow is not Sweetman. He wants the data centre to be built on his own land and is objecting to other applications.
http://uk.businessinsider.com/there-are-now-only-2-people-opposing-apples-irish-data-centre-in-court-2017-2

weshtawake · 12-07-2017 8:52am

Mc Donagh is his name and as the other posted noted - it's because he wants to build it in Wicklow 140 miles away from where Apple have decided they wish to build it!!

ronnie3585 · 12-07-2017 10:04am

weshtawake wrote: »

Mc Donagh is his name and as the other posted noted - it's because he wants to build it in Wicklow 140 miles away from where Apple have decided they wish to build it!!

He's not party to the current proceedings, his application didn't go ahead.

biko · 12-07-2017 12:16pm

Apple announced plans in February 2015 to build the centre in Galway on the same day it unveiled plans for another facility in Denmark. The Danish data centre is expected to go live later this year but work on the project in Athenry has yet to get under way.
In addition, Apple announced plans to build a second data centre in Denmark on Monday. It will spend 6 billion Danish krone (€808 million) on the facility, which will run entirely on renewable energy.

https://www.irishtimes.com/business/technology/further-blow-to-galway-as-apple-sets-up-data-centre-in-china-1.3151835

joeKel73 · 12-07-2017 12:43pm

Shouldn't this be in the Galway County forum?

connemara man · 12-07-2017 12:52pm

J o e wrote: »

Shouldn't this be in the Galway County forum?

A project that big so close to the city would impact the city surely

inisboffin · 12-07-2017 1:21pm

connemara man wrote: »

A project that big so close to the city would impact the city surely

Ah now. Lots of stuff could impact the City. Sure this would impact Athlone too surely?

The City gets all the cool toys. :P

biko · 12-07-2017 2:00pm

We'll leave it here for now anyway.

billbond4 · 12-07-2017 2:10pm

inisboffin wrote: »

Ah now. Lots of stuff could impact the City. Sure this would impact Athlone too surely?

The City gets all the cool toys. :P

Its not a cool toy, just a warehouse with lots of servers in it and a few cleaners.

Fozzie Bear · 12-07-2017 3:25pm

stampydmonkey wrote: »

Is that Mr. Sweetman?

No, Mr Sweetman was one of the principal people who helped bring down the plans for Galway City Outer Bypass 1.0, because of bog cotton....

joeKel73 · 12-07-2017 5:56pm

Fozzie Bear wrote: »

No, Mr Sweetman was one of the principal people who helped bring down the plans for Galway City Outer Bypass 1.0, because of bog cotton....

He's a serial objector...
https://www.irishtimes.com/news/environment/energy-people-peter-sweetman-objector-1.2114488

biko · 13-07-2017 1:20pm

Let's get back to the data centre

the whole year inn · 13-07-2017 1:27pm

biko wrote: »

Let's get back to the data centre

Not as if apple are going to run out of data centers,surely this will go ahead, just a matter of time.

Raging_Ninja · 13-07-2017 1:33pm

the whole year inn wrote: »

Not as if apple are going to run out of data centers,surely this will go ahead, just a matter of time.

Not if it's too much of a pain in the ass to even get work started it won't. Denmark will have completed two datacentres before we can even build one. And other companies interested in building infrastructure projects like this will take one look at Apple's experience and go somewhere else.

There is a massive opportunity cost to huge delays in projects like this.

I'm willing to bet that we could have gotten that 2nd datacentre and the jobs and facilities that come with it had the Athenry project been nearing completion by now instead of languishing in the courts.

the whole year inn · 13-07-2017 1:43pm

Raging_Ninja wrote: »

Not if it's too much of a pain in the ass it won't. Denmark is getting two datacentres before we can even build one. And other companies interested in building infrastructure projects like this will look at Apple's experience and go somewhere else.

I'm not up to date with this, where are they with getting a verdict on the way people that are protesting? I searched there and only found an article from March.

connemara man · 13-07-2017 1:45pm

I follow the Apple for Athenry group on Facebook and they've said that the decision keeps getting deferred. I'd say it's quite frustrating. A building that will employ a lot to build then keep a good few in employment thus reducing the need to travel to and from Galway every day employment.

Subcomandante Marcos · 13-07-2017 1:48pm

connemara man wrote: »

I follow the Apple for Athenry group on Facebook and they've said that the decision keeps getting deferred. I'd say it's quite frustrating. A building that will employ a lot to build then keep a good few in employment thus reducing the need to travel to and from Galway every day employment.

No, it won't. It will employ a relatively small workforce for a building of it's footprint and then will employ a handful of people once it's operational. Data centres employ very, very few staff. Local business thinking this place will keep cafes and restaurants open are in for a shock when the handful of engineers continue to live in/around the city.

machiavellianme · 13-07-2017 1:52pm

Yeah just 5 per MW of power on average between it and the supporting industries. That's only about 150 odd people getting good jobs for the data centre proposed here.

connemara man · 13-07-2017 1:53pm

Subcomandante Marcos wrote: »

No, it won't. It will employ a relatively small workforce for a building of it's footprint and then will employ a handful of people once it's operational. Data centres employ very, very few staff. Local business thinking this place will keep cafes and restaurants open are in for a shock when the handful of engineers continue to live in/around the city.

I said a good few what's that 20-50 between admin engineers cleaning maintenance security etc

The build itself will bring a short term boom through the town and fir small businesses that are used to irregular business they can make that last for a while

And there's a knock on when things like this get delayed to the point of incompletion is that the area looks less appetising for new businesses to develop in

the whole year inn · 13-07-2017 2:26pm

machiavellianme wrote: »

Yeah just 5 per MW of power on average between it and the supporting industries. That's only about 150 odd people getting good jobs for the data centre proposed here.

I'm don't understand when you say supporting industries, I always thought to run these data centers takes very little staff.

nuac · 13-07-2017 2:46pm

Fozzie Bear wrote: »

No, Mr Sweetman was one of the principal people who helped bring down the plans for Galway City Outer Bypass 1.0, because of bog cotton....

Not just the extremely "rare" bog cotton ( which is common ) but also because some pylons for the proposed extra bridge would have been built into the limestone pavement.

The limestone pavement in that part of the West stretches from north Clare, under Galway Bay, portion of Co Galway and north into Mayo. Plenty of space for a few pylons.

There should be some limit on ability of objectors to hold up such projects

ronnie3585 · 13-07-2017 3:34pm

Subcomandante Marcos wrote: »

No, it won't. It will employ a relatively small workforce for a building of it's footprint and then will employ a handful of people once it's operational. Data centres employ very, very few staff. Local business thinking this place will keep cafes and restaurants open are in for a shock when the handful of engineers continue to live in/around the city.

This is an extremely important point that has been lost in all the hysteria.

Mrs OBumble · 13-07-2017 3:36pm

Subcomandante Marcos wrote: »

Data centres employ very, very few staff. Local business thinking this place will keep cafes and restaurants open are in for a shock when the handful of engineers continue to live in/around the city.

Just like all the engineers who work in the city now live in the city, and don't commute in to work from Athenry and the likes ...

Raging_Ninja · 13-07-2017 3:53pm

ronnie3585 wrote: »

This is an extremely important point that has been lost in all the hysteria.

The numbers are debatable. 150 seems reasonable since there will be 24 hour coverage 7 days a week for a datacentre, which would break down to maybe 30-50 per shift between maintenance, engineering, admin, etc.

So yes, there will be increased local business and the jobs that brings.

Plus you are discounting he absolute pain in the hole all this nonsense is for Apple and negative publicity it brings to us. I bet a lot of other multinationals who would have been interested in setting up a datacentre or other larger infrastructure here are looking long and hard at this project and considering walking away when it comes to either entering or expanding operations here.

joeKel73 · 13-07-2017 3:59pm

nuac wrote: »

There should be some limit on ability of objectors to hold up such projects

I see the issue being the slowness of the process. It's fair enough for people to object but objections should be reviewed and handled much quicker.

Robbo · 13-07-2017 4:27pm

the whole year inn wrote: »

Not as if apple are going to run out of data centers,surely this will go ahead, just a matter of time.

The commencement of the GDPR in May 2018 means it's an order of magnitude more difficult for EU citizens data to be hosted outside the EU/EEA. Add to this the complete level of uncertainty as to where data centres in the UK will stand post Brexit, there's a scramble to build or lease data centre capacity within Member States.

nuac wrote: »

Not just the extremely "rare" bog cotton ( which is common ) but also because some pylons for the proposed extra bridge would have been built into the limestone pavement.

The limestone pavement in that part of the West stretches from north Clare, under Galway Bay, portion of Co Galway and north into Mayo. Plenty of space for a few pylons.

There should be some limit on ability of objectors to hold up such projects

The Aarhus Convention has created a new cottage legal industry in this country. You're never going to get stung for the other sides costs as long as you can demonstrate an environmental angle, no matter what its merits or how many times the exact same question has been answered.

There's a far grubbier side to it as well but that's another story for another day.

J o e wrote: »

I see the issue being the slowness of the process. It's fair enough for people to object but objections should be reviewed and handled much quicker.

The judicial review list in the High Court has ground to a halt and this particular case is a victim of that.

weshtawake · 13-07-2017 5:50pm

Absolutely ridiculous state of affairs that the judicial review cannot be expedited for such an important, landmark development.
Where are the local/national/ex-Taoiseach politicians?? If it was proposed for Kilgarvan, Kerry you bet your ass it would be built by now.

nuac · 13-07-2017 7:30pm

weshtawake wrote: »

Absolutely ridiculous state of affairs that the judicial review cannot be expedited for such an important, landmark development.
Where are the local/national/ex-Taoiseach politicians?? If it was proposed for Kilgarvan, Kerry you bet your ass it would be built by now.

dp

nuac · 13-07-2017 7:34pm

weshtawake wrote: »

Absolutely ridiculous state of affairs that the judicial review cannot be expedited for such an important, landmark development.
Where are the local/national/ex-Taoiseach politicians?? If it was proposed for Kilgarvan, Kerry you bet your ass it would be built by now.

About 1986 the Superior Court Rules relating to Judicial Reviews were somewhat simplified. JRs have become increasingly common

Some of the legislation needs review.

I,e in the Galway by-pass saga there was evidence the pylons for the proposed bridge would have minimal effect on the limestone pavement. However the Courts considered that the legislation as enacted did not all ANY, even the most minimal interference with the limestone pavement.

And then we had the whooper swans blocking the extension of the N5 to Ballina....................

More judges fit to deal with these issues are needed. Anybody told Lord Ross?

14-07-2017 12:56pm

nuac wrote: »

Not just the extremely "rare" bog cotton ( which is common ) but also because some pylons for the proposed extra bridge would have been built into the limestone pavement.

The limestone pavement in that part of the West stretches from north Clare, under Galway Bay, portion of Co Galway and north into Mayo. Plenty of space for a few pylons.

There should be some limit on ability of objectors to hold up such projects

The bog cotton which thwarted the original bypass route is Eriophorum gracile, Slender Bog-cotton; this is extremely rare in Britain and Ireland

TerrorFirmer · 14-07-2017 2:14pm

Vice did a brilliant piece on this last month - great read for anyone.

One man in a tiny Irish town could derail Apple’s plans for Europe

billbond4 · 14-07-2017 2:23pm

Very good article.
Apple getting all the benefits paid for by the Irish Taxpayer of a large investment in Electrical Supply and they give back a 100 odd jobs.
Sure why wouldnt they want to build the Data Center here ??

Raging_Ninja · 14-07-2017 3:34pm

billbond4 wrote: »

Very good article.
Apple getting all the benefits paid for by the Irish Taxpayer of a large investment in Electrical Supply and they give back a 100 odd jobs.
Sure why wouldnt they want to build the Data Center here ??

You do understand that the more big companies set up things like this, the more attractive we look to other companies, right? That means more jobs and more investment in infrastructure which benefits everyone.

nuac · 14-07-2017 4:07pm

Deleted User wrote: »

The bog cotton which thwarted the original bypass route is Eriophorum gracile, Slender Bog-cotton; this is extremely rare in Britain and Ireland

Is it not the same bog cotton that is visible in Connemara and West Mayo

If not just how rare is it?

Can it be preserved where its presence would not strangle the growth of traffic about Galway city?

15-07-2017 12:17pm

nuac wrote: »

Is it not the same bog cotton that is visible in Connemara and West Mayo

If not just how rare is it?

Can it be preserved where its presence would not strangle the growth of traffic about Galway city?

There are four species of Bog-cotton/Cotton-grass/Eriophorum in Ireland. Two are very common, E. angustifolium and E. vaginatum - these are the ones you see everywhere, particularly out west. E. latifolium is less common, but not rare. E. gracile is so rare it is included on the Flora Protection Order schedule of plants; these receive the highest level of legislative protection under the Wildlife Acts. I'm not sure of all distribution records; its known from Roundstone bog, and two sites around Galway City, almost all other sites have been lost.
Protecting plants is a very knotty problem; it cant really be done without protecting the habitat, and this plants habitat requirements are clearly very particular.

billbond4 · 17-07-2017 11:17am

Raging_Ninja wrote: »

You do understand that the more big companies set up things like this, the more attractive we look to other companies, right? That means more jobs and more investment in infrastructure which benefits everyone.

It makes Ireland more attractive for similar type of data center companies, you dont need to necessarily have your companies R&D in the same country where you have its data centre.
Data Centres only provide a few jobs for the return on national investment in updating the electrical infrastructure.
It would be fine if we were more like Denmark and having excess "Green" electrical supply but we dont, were just subsidising apples green image and the taxpayer is left footing the bill.
Anyway Apple are probably leveraging the existing jobs in Cork to get the data centre here

Raging_Ninja · 17-07-2017 12:20pm

billbond4 wrote: »

It makes Ireland more attractive for similar type of data center companies, you dont need to necessarily have your companies R&D in the same country where you have its data centre.
Data Centres only provide a few jobs for the return on national investment in updating the electrical infrastructure.
It would be fine if we were more like Denmark and having excess "Green" electrical supply but we dont, were just subsidising apples green image and the taxpayer is left footing the bill.
Anyway Apple are probably leveraging the existing jobs in Cork to get the data centre here

Really? You think having a pretty large construction job help up in the courts for how long now only means that companies with datacentres will be disinclined to build here?

billbond4 · 17-07-2017 12:33pm

If our government had invested in renewable energy and we had plenty to sell, then data centres would be fine, but for the short term we dont have the green energy to sell.
As it stands the taxpayer would be the looser of large datacenters built here.

Raging_Ninja · 17-07-2017 1:06pm

billbond4 wrote: »

If our government had invested in renewable energy and we had plenty to sell, then data centres would be fine, but for the short term we dont have the green energy to sell.
As it stands the taxpayer would be the looser of large datacenters built here.

Does it really matter which comes first? If we always waited until all the prereqs were in place then nothing would get done. Oftentimes the urge to change something doesn't become apparent until you need it and there is a public appetite for it. Infrastructure won't be built out until we need it, and if datacentres like this aren't built then we aren't going to get the electric and communications upgrades we need.

Besides, again, you are missing the big picture. Do you really think a multinational would look at the needless delays apparent in the building of this project and say to themselves "gee, Ireland looks like a great place to build a new X factory with 1000 jobs that we need to meet demand in 2 years", or do you think they will gtfo somewhere else?

billbond4 · 17-07-2017 1:24pm

The Big Picture is that we dont have enough excess renewable energy for large scale data centres and Irelands growing population, so where is all this electricity going to come from?..
Its not only the transmission network for electricity that needs an upgrade its the source of electricity that needs to be planned for.
We have enough bandwidth for the communications as they are privately funded.

Its not a factory thats going to employ 1000s of people,its just a warehouse that is being built that at most a 100 odd people are going to be employed, with little add on benefit for locals.

17-07-2017 1:39pm

That 100 figure (however accurate it is) will drop like a stone in years to come as the running of these is automated to a high level.

Eventually, you will have 8 data centers, drawing massive amounts of power from the grid, employing 4-5 security guards

theteal · 17-07-2017 1:51pm

As a network engineer for a global company, I semi-regularly visit our massive data centre which is shared with other very prominent companies. I might cross the paths of 3-4 security guards on any of my visits - that's it, not another soul based there (I'd see some engineers from some of the other companies but like me, they'd just be visiting). I can't fathom how large this one will be to require 150 staff.

I would be fully backing Mr. Daly's objection. Mr. McDonagh can go and jump.

spacetweek · 17-07-2017 10:26pm

According to this article, decision not until July 27th.
https://www.irishtimes.com/business/technology/second-danish-centre-for-apple-with-galway-facility-on-hold-1.3149472?mode=amp

JupiterKid · 23-07-2017 4:30am

It's interesting that the appetite for this proposed Apple project is pretty restrained in Galway and indeed there are a lot of posters questioning the benefit/cost ratio. It shows how far we've come as a country.

25 years back, this proposal would meet with not just universal approval but a grovelling to Apple worthy of a sycophant.

Apple Athenry data centre

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