Kilkenny GAA Thread Part 2 **MOD NOTE POST 1***

Hawkeye6 wrote: »

People will see what they want to see and hear what they want to hear. It is human nature. Did Brian Cody push the fourth official or did the fourth official physically restrain Brain Cody as he chased the terrified Derek McGrath back into his dugout? Interestingly, it seemed to trigger an improved performance from James Owens, until opportunity arose in injury time. But let’s not get hung up the officials and get our own house in order.

Quote from a Kilkenny poster from last week in relation to my post about football, midfield and club responsibility. “And the five skills of football, pulling, dragging, bunching, fighting, and weight lifting.” I don’t want to credit the post to anyone in particular as it may be taken personally even though it is a typically Kilkenny view of football. I will return to this in a while.

Kilkenny are out of the senior hurling Championship 2017. Fact, I’m afraid. There are, as usual a wide variety of views and again people saw what they wanted to see. What did I see? I saw a typical Brian Cody led team who refused to give up and almost snatched it in normal time. Oh dear for TJ Reids missed free… I saw a Cody team where the players lead. What other county could have an injured player come down out of the stands and make a suggestion to their manager which would appear to have been heeded, rightly or wrongly. That’s not the Cody that has been painted for years? Or was it painted correctly. You’ve all got your own answer.

Without wishing to criticise individuals who gave there all and showed huge spirit (Cody-esque) regardless of the result, here are some other specifics I saw. Those of you who want to take the time to search my posts during league on the Padraig Walsh full back experiment will see, I was always of the opinion that this was a disaster waiting to happen. I see many of you now agree. But many also want new selectors. Are we to take it that most of you think it is now McGarry and Lyng that are at fault? The alone came up with this option for full back. Is that what you see? You may not have posted it in the one post but logic dictates or that’s what I see. I also notice recently people talking about the knee jerk reaction to moving Joey Holden out of full back after the All-Ireland. I was a supporter of Joey to remain at full back as you will see from previous posts, but supporter power made Joey the scapegoat. The management got the vibe and I wonder now was this their biggest error. Maybe they should have stayed faithful to what they saw.

General consensus, Buckley was excellent. General consensus, the delivery of the ball to the forwards was terrible. What I saw. Buckley had a huge amount of possession. Our forwards were man marked plus one (sweeper De Burca). We all knew this before a ball was hit. Buckley gets ball moves forward ponderously, looking for a free forward. Logic dictates at this level and that setup, even with movement it is near impossible to get free. As he ponders. Waterford move back more reinforcements. Space is gone. Buckley hits it anyway. The forwards get the blame for not moving. Pauric Maher, same situation, ball over the bar. Austin Gleeson, ball over the bar. Ok possibly a few wides, but the more you shoot the more you score. He got five with mad shots. What did Buckley get for all his possession?

General consensus, Lester Ryan was brilliant and should have started. Mick Fennelly was not at his best. What I saw... Lester was good on the ball, but switched off when he didn’t have the ball. Did anyone notice him when Jamie Barron was making his runs from midfield for the first point of extra time and the first vital goal? Is it a coincidence that when Mick Fennelly, whom I said previously is the only proper inter county midfielder in Kilkenny, went off, that we fell apart very quickly, especially in midfield. What would have happened to our midfield if Fennelly hadn’t started at all? How many runs would Barron have made, resulting in scores? People see what they want to see. Do the management team see the same flaws in Lester regarding his overall concentration?

A lot of people want new selectors now. Some want to see Cody go and a modern coach/manager in place. Do we really? The selectors are Derek Lyng and James McGarry. Are we saying these are the culprits for team selection? Out of nowhere the finger is pointed at them. How does anyone know what these men contribute? Kilkenny squad is shrouded in secrecy. Who knows what the dynamics are? Maybe Mick Fennelly is a closet selector or just a player empowered. You want a modern coach/manager. You mean somebody who plays a sweeper... God no!! Well I’m afraid that is what the modern coach is doing. You can’t on one hand say, No sweepers for Kilkenny and on the other hand look for a modern coach. How many Kilkenny clubs are playing a sweeper system in their adult teams? How often at club level do players get the opportunity to play against or with the system? It goes back to my previous posts and Kilkenny club coaches stuck in their ways. Brian Cody, Lyng and McGarry cannot fix this. Kilkenny Senior Camogie team operate a sweeper system and is starting to bring success (last 3 national titles and a provincial title already). Their sweeper is a top class forward in Ann Dalton. Some Kilkenny Camogie clubs are doing it too. Kilkenny hurling clubs may need to think about its use and forget about stubborn tradition. Yes, I see the clubs as the main issue to style of play. It is hard for the county to get the players to play a type of game that is alien to what they are doing with their club, regardless of ability. Think of your own club and how they set themselves up… Or should Kilkenny hurling bring in Ann Downey and her management team?

Get rid of Cody... It will happen someday. I don’t wish for it any day soon. I look at history, Kerry after Dwyer, Meath after Boylan, Man U after Ferguson. It is the price you pay for a long run of success thanks to a great manager. The successors do not have the experience. On the other hand, I look at the Liverpool boot room, where the successor was already there within. Ok eventually they broke that too, but would I rush to dump McGarry or Lyng given the experience they are building up. No, I wouldn’t, but that’s not the way everyone sees it obviously.

Some people saw it as better to be beaten now than later. I didn’t see it that way. I never want to be beaten and nor does the Kilkenny management team. It is 100 years since Dublin beat Tipperary in a championship match. Waterford has never ever beaten Kilkenny in a championship match in normal time. Statistically a sequence doesn’t have to end. Cork are flying. They were in the league too. They could go all the way. This Kilkenny team beat Cork in the league at a time when Cork was going well and Kilkenny were allegedly going very bad. Why would you want to see Kilkenny lose at any stage? What would stop us from beating Crok again?

Back to “And the five skills of football, pulling, dragging, bunching, fighting, and weight lifting.” I saw a game on Saturday. There was an incredible amount of jersey pulling and dragging players around the neck. I saw a huge amount of bunching, rucks, melees and a blanket defence. I saw at one stage a referee throw a ball three times into a ruck wasting valuable playing time. I saw players swarming forward running off the shoulder. I saw goalkeepers playing short ball out to the corner backs. Yes football,… NO it wasn’t!!! it was a modern hurling match in Thurles. Again Kilkenny supporters and clubs need to change the traditional cultural view of hurling. It is possible to train for the modern game without playing football, but I guarantee, the players will not enjoy it as much, especially your average club player. Some traditionalists say they will not watch hurling if it continues the way it is. I don’t care how Kilkenny win as long as they win and within the rules. I enjoyed the Camogie team winning with a sweeper. Is there much of a difference between Anthony Nash and Stephen Cluxton in the kick out/puck out? Until some clubs take on the sweeper system, there is no platform for other clubs to figure and test out how to beat the system. You need the disease before you find the cure.

The way I see it, the culture of the Kilkenny supporters who in most cases is a Club person has to change. The snobbery against football, the snobbery against a sweeper, the snobbery against blanket defences needs to change. Like all systems, eventually it will be broken, but it will take time. From junior to senior this year the focus should be on the “system” the club teams uses rather than the individual hurlers. The hurlers will stand out anyway skill wise, but are our players getting exposure to the type of game being played at inter county level anymore? We all know we have the playing talent, but will they all be neutralised by not being able to play the modern inter county game. It starts here, Sideline watch for club games 2017… It might throw up a few potential successors for Cody if that’s what people want.

I will finish with four questions, 2 asked previously, but no suggestions submitted yet.
1. Who should replace Brian Cody as manager?
2. Who are the good midfielders coming through in Kilkenny?
3. Who are the great selectors to replace McGarry and Lyng?
4. Who are the Kilkenny club coaches or other Kilkenny coaches who are embracing the changes of the modern game?

Hurling has changed. Traditionalists including myself may not like it so much. The feel of Winning hasn’t, but there is no point in yearning for the days of old, unless you have a way of bringing that type of hurling back. All the above is a sample of what I see or saw. I’m sure you all saw whatever you wanted to see it...

Hawkeye6 wrote: »

Get rid of Cody... It will happen someday. I don’t wish for it any day soon. I look at history, Kerry after Dwyer, Meath after Boylan, Man U after Ferguson. It is the price you pay for a long run of success thanks to a great manager. The successors do not have the experience. On the other hand, I look at the Liverpool boot room, where the successor was already there within. Ok eventually they broke that too, but would I rush to dump McGarry or Lyng given the experience they are building up. No, I wouldn’t, but that’s not the way everyone sees it obviously.

citykat wrote: »

Not a big fan of Mullaly if Claras style is anything to go by. Too fond of the sweeper imo.