Lions 2017 [MOD WARNING IN OP]

irishman86 · 03-07-2017 03:50PM

Burkie1203 wrote: »

A slipped kick which was on the absolute limit of the takers range.

History tells us Gatland is a highly successful coach. He didnt fluke all them trophies.

Refusal to acknowledge that shows a lack brains really

It most definitely not the limit of most kickers range

irishman86 · 03-07-2017 03:52PM

irishbucsfan wrote: »

Also would have prevented Ireland's grand slam in 2009 but for a different result on another kick

Something Ive seen regularly said against Kidney :rolleyes:

sydthebeat · 03-07-2017 03:52PM

aloooof wrote: »

Personally, I'd love to see Henderson get in the 23 (maybe as backrow cover?) but given Gatland's lack of use of the bench, coupled with Lawes' performance off the bench on Saturday, I'm not sure he'd see any gametime anyways.

the only way he will make the bench is if we go for a 6-2 split with lawes, CJ and henderson

irishbucsfan · 03-07-2017 03:53PM

irishman86 wrote: »

Something Ive seen regularly said against Kidney :rolleyes:

Wait, are you agreeing with those people who say that regularly? Or are you saying people are wrong to hold that against Kidney?

Burkie1203 · 03-07-2017 04:14PM

irishman86 wrote: »

It most definitely not the limit of most kickers range

Ive seen beale make 50m kicks. Also seen him miss a few too. Kicks from 45m out are nowhere near gimme at any level. At the end of a test match on a ropey pitch which is cutting up a bit is a test for anyone.

Leinster survived a HC semi final because fofana dropped the ball over the line .

Ireland won a 6n because Heaslip never gave up the chase on hogg.

If they went the other way would that make Joe Schmidt a poorer coach?

Bottom line. Gatland has 8 major trophies in european rugby at club and country level combined. A lions test record of 3-2 which will either be 4-2 or 3-3 come saturday morning is far from shabby. He deserves to be recognised as a quality coach.

03-07-2017 04:23PM

What's the likely NZ backline this weekend?

SBW, Naholo, Smith all out I think.

bilston · 03-07-2017 04:24PM

irishman86 wrote: »

bilston wrote: »

Domestically McCall is probably more successful than Gatland as he has won Europe twice and has 2 Premiership titles and 1 Celtic League title to his name. Maybe he will get a chance with Ireland once Joe packs it in but I doubt it.

I said that myself regarding McCall. I asked before did he leave Ulster on bad terms

He left on bad terms because he lost the dressing room. Or at least the dressing room split. But then the same happened to McLaughlin and Anscombe. Personally I think the problem may lie elsewhere! But anyway that's for another thread.

One other achievement that Gatland has which wasn't measured in terms of trophies, but he dragged Ireland out of the darkness and into the light. He kickstarted the so called golden generation with his bold selection against Scotland back in 2000.

irishbucsfan · 03-07-2017 04:26PM

Billy Beautiful Guillotine wrote: »

What's the likely NZ backline this weekend?

SBW, Naholo, Smith all out I think.

I think they might be hoping to have Smith back. Trained with them before the last day according to Greenwood. Although I haven't heard anything since. He's a big difference maker.

Buer · 03-07-2017 04:34PM

Billy Beautiful Guillotine wrote: »

What's the likely NZ backline this weekend?

SBW, Naholo, Smith all out I think.

Naholo will be available according to Hansen. Outside chance Crotty might be back although unlikely and could be very risky to throw him in if the hamstring isn't 100%.

aloooof · 03-07-2017 04:34PM

Billy Beautiful Guillotine wrote: »

What's the likely NZ backline this weekend?

SBW, Naholo, Smith all out I think.

Fekitoa's been added to the squad, and I've seen it suggested in places that he'll come straight into the 15.

Presumably Savea on the wing if Naholo isn't available? Or could NMS get in?

CurryFlavoured · 03-07-2017 04:35PM

Billy Beautiful Guillotine wrote: »

What's the likely NZ backline this weekend?

SBW, Naholo, Smith all out I think.

Imagine any other side had their starting 12, 14 and 15 injured, you'd imagine they'd be in trouble or severely weakened. NZ has Crotty, Savea, Milner Skudder and young Barrett all waiting in reserve. Probably a heap more quality players too.

That said, Smith is the best FB in the World. SBW and Naholo can be easily replaced by NZ.

03-07-2017 04:41PM

CurryFlavoured wrote: »

Imagine any other side had their starting 12, 14 and 15 injured, you'd imagine they'd be in trouble or severely weakened. NZ has Crotty, Savea, Milner Skudder and young Barrett all waiting in reserve. Probably a heap more quality players too.

That said, Smith is the best FB in the World. SBW and Naholo can be easily replaced by NZ.

Is Crotty fit again?

And yeah they have absurd depth.

CurryFlavoured · 03-07-2017 04:42PM

Forgot about Fekitoa, another centre who would probably stroll into any other international starting 15.

swiwi_ · 03-07-2017 06:39PM

Billy Beautiful Guillotine wrote: »

What's the likely NZ backline this weekend?

SBW, Naholo, Smith all out I think.

Well da..Billy Beautiful Guillotine. That is the million dollar Q eating up NZ fans. Kiwis were not too impressed with the contributions made off the bench by TJP and Cruden. There are general nerves about the midfield.

I would say from 9 to 15: Smith, Barrett, recall for Savea vs Ioane at 11, Crotty/ALB if Crotty fit, otherwise ALB and who knows out of Fekitoa/Laumape/Goodhue, Naholo vs Dagg at 14, Dagg vs Jordie Barrett at 15.

There is genuine uncertainty about the NZ backline, even from a myriad of Kiwis fans - we'll have to wait and see.

Forwards - expect no changes, except possibly a change on the bench with Barrett dropping out for Romana/Fafita or possibly Squire if he's fit.

This is a big test for NZ, should be a close match. At least NZ has been superior in the scrum, so Poite might do his thing, we see.

irishman86 · 03-07-2017 07:26PM

irishbucsfan wrote: »

Wait, are you agreeing with those people who say that regularly? Or are you saying people are wrong to hold that against Kidney?

Im saying he wouldnt have a grand slam if Henson took the kick, the difference between the two kicks is one player clearly didnt havee the range, the other slipped

irishman86 · 03-07-2017 07:30PM

swiwi_ wrote: »

Well da..Billy Beautiful Guillotine. That is the million dollar Q eating up NZ fans. Kiwis were not too impressed with the contributions made off the bench by TJP and Cruden. There are general nerves about the midfield.

I would say from 9 to 15: Smith, Barrett, recall for Savea vs Ioane at 11, Crotty/ALB if Crotty fit, otherwise ALB and who knows out of Fekitoa/Laumape/Goodhue, Naholo vs Dagg at 14, Dagg vs Jordie Barrett at 15.

There is genuine uncertainty about the NZ backline, even from a myriad of Kiwis fans - we'll have to wait and see.

Forwards - expect no changes, except possibly a change on the bench with Barrett dropping out for Romana/Fafita or possibly Squire if he's fit.

This is a big test for NZ, should be a close match. At least NZ has been superior in the scrum, so Poite might do his thing, we see.

I dont understand why Cruden didnt take the kicking of Barrett

CMOTDibbler · 03-07-2017 07:31PM

irishman86 wrote: »

Im saying he wouldnt have a grand slam if Henson took the kick, the difference between the two kicks is one player clearly didnt havee the range, the other slipped

Stephen Jones had the range. He'd made one from almost the same spot earlier in the match. Most felt at the time that fatigue lost him a couple of yards.

Gavin Henson could just as easily have hoofed it into row z as got it between the sticks.

irishman86 · 03-07-2017 07:36PM

CMOTDibbler wrote: »

Stephen Jones had the range. He'd made one from almost the same spot earlier in the match. Most felt at the time that fatigue lost him a couple of yards.

Gavin Henson could just as easily have hoofed it into row z as got it between the sticks.

Henson with his distance and mentality at the time would have nailed it, as soon as Jones took that kick everyone knew he wouldnt make it. At the best of times he just about had that range, Jones kicking range is 35-40 meters

pickarooney · 03-07-2017 07:40PM

irishman86 wrote: »

I dont understand why Cruden didnt take the kicking of Barrett

He's hardly Neil Jenkins himself.

The Rape of Lucretia · 03-07-2017 07:43PM

irishman86 wrote: »

Im saying he wouldnt have a grand slam if Henson took the kick, the difference between the two kicks is one player clearly didnt havee the range, the other slipped

A man in the crowd looked to the heavens, and blessed himself. Sorted.
It wouldnt have mattered who took that kick.

Burkie1203 · 03-07-2017 07:45PM

irishman86 wrote: »

Henson with his distance and mentality at the time would have nailed it, as soon as Jones took that kick everyone knew he wouldnt make it. At the best of times he just about had that range, Jones kicking range is 35-40 meters

But Jones landed a 50m penalty earlier in the game. So how is his range 35-40?

Buer · 03-07-2017 08:03PM

man86 wrote: »

Henson with his distance and mentality at the time would have nailed it

Henson was completely circling the drain mentally at that point and there wasn't a hope that he'd be given the kicking tee. He was having a very poor season and announced his hiatus shortly afterwards.

There wasn't even a debate about who would take the kick.

Jones kicking range is 35-40 meters

You're clutching and making things up. Jones could comfortably kick them between 40-50m.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wv2aW0LE1UE

CMOTDibbler · 03-07-2017 08:26PM

irishman86 wrote: »

Henson with his distance and mentality at the time would have nailed it, as soon as Jones took that kick everyone knew he wouldnt make it. At the best of times he just about had that range, Jones kicking range is 35-40 meters

As others have pointed out, the above is nonsense. I'm only replying to add that it's egregious nonsense.

"Everyone knew". Paul O'Connell wouldn't even look because he knew he'd get it. :rolleyes:

The kick was barely a metre short and was bang on target. Trump level alternative facts methinks.

irishman86 · 03-07-2017 08:34PM

pickarooney wrote: »

He's hardly Neil Jenkins himself.

Better than Barrett

irishman86 · 03-07-2017 08:35PM

Burkie1203 wrote: »

But Jones landed a 50m penalty earlier in the game. So how is his range 35-40?

As thats where he mostly kicked from, he usually stepped aside for long kicks. Except for Ireland thankfully he thought in the 80th minute he had that distance

irishman86 · 03-07-2017 08:36PM

Buer wrote: »

Henson was completely circling the drain mentally at that point and there wasn't a hope that he'd be given the kicking tee. He was having a very poor season and announced his hiatus shortly afterwards.

There wasn't even a debate about who would take the kick.

You're clutching and making things up. Jones could comfortably kick them between 40-50m.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wv2aW0LE1UE

How often did Jones attempt long kicks, very rarely. The reason for it, is because he doesnt have the power of the ground. That kick was also taken very early in the game also taken in 2001 when he had more power, but hey lets ignore that

irishman86 · 03-07-2017 08:39PM

CMOTDibbler wrote: »

As others have pointed out, the above is nonsense. I'm only replying to add that it's egregious nonsense.

"Everyone knew". Paul O'Connell wouldn't even look because he knew he'd get it. :rolleyes:

The kick was barely a metre short and was bang on target. Trump level alternative facts methinks.

Ah now the kick was dying well short of a meter. Jones might have got one or two long kicks but in general he couldnt take them. More and more so as he went on in his career

irishbucsfan · 03-07-2017 08:39PM

irishman86 wrote: »

How often did Jones attempt long kicks, very rarely. The reason for it, is because he doesnt have the power of the ground. That kick was also taken very early in the game

In Wales....

Ah I see you edited, sorry!

irishman86 · 03-07-2017 08:43PM

irishbucsfan wrote: »

In Wales....

Ah I see you edited, sorry!

In 2001, I didnt think Wales as it didnt add up. Him being a lot younger than that kick against Ireland

irishbucsfan · 03-07-2017 08:45PM

irishman86 wrote: »

In 2001, I didnt think Wales as it didnt add up. Him being a lot younger than that kick against Ireland

He was still capable of making 50m kicks when he played Ireland. We couldn't possibly have a better piece of evidence to prove that.

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