Did anybody here attend the Rally For Life/repeal the 8th marches in Dublin?

Synthol · 03-07-2017 12:54AM

511 wrote: »

Correction: Africa and Asia are overpopulated. Europe needs higher birthrates.

What the hell are you talking about? Ever heard of something called population density? Density is what matters, basically overcrowding.

freshpopcorn · 03-07-2017 12:57AM

sabat wrote: »

This isn't really a response to my point which was merely highlighting the disingenuous use of a photo by a pro-repeal blogger but even if the vote was restricted to women of child bearing age I would guess the margins would be broadly similar to the general population.

I never understand this view of only allowing women of child bearing age vote. If we did things like this we'd have only left gay people vote in the marriage referendum.

Eyes Down Field · 03-07-2017 01:02AM

I think the referendum on the 8th should be decided by women only. As a man, Why should I have a say in what a woman choses to do with her, body, her life.

Outlaw Pete · 03-07-2017 01:26AM

Eyes Down Field wrote: »

As a man, Why should I have a say in what a woman choses to do with her, body, her life.

Do you think a woman should be able to abort pregnancies at seven months? No, you don't, like most normal people and so therefore even YOU think a woman should not always be able to do what she wants to with "her body". People parrot that slogan because that's all they have but it has never been able to stand up to even the slightest scrutiny.

ALL opinions on abortion come down to fetal development. There is no adult on Planet Earth that has an opinion on abortion that is not based solely on fetal development (excluding fta, risk to life etc etc... of course). All the other bull**** is just background noise as even the staunchest of prochoice don't believe women should be able to abort any stage of a pregnancy. Which is why women in the UK (for example) have been imprisoned for killing their unborn babies after 24 weeks gestation.

Now, you ask why should you (a man) have a say in any abortion referendum?

Well, 50% of a baby's DNA comes from it's father. In fact, human beings use use more DNA from their fathers than we do our mothers and so why shouldn't men have a say in what happens babies as they develop in the womb given that?

Besides, even if that wasn't true. All citizens of a country should have a say in something as important the rights of our offspring at gestational stage. How we treat our most vulnerable says so much about us and there are no more vulnerable human beings on this Planet than those in the womb.

gctest50 · 03-07-2017 01:32AM

Outlaw Pete wrote: »

Do you think a woman should be able to abort pregnancies at seven months? No, you don't, like most normal people .........

So if it's just between a woman and her doctor (with no criminal law restricting abortion at all etc etc ) they won't be aborting pregnancies at the 11th hour

since they're normal people

.

_Whimsical_ · 03-07-2017 01:41AM

Outlaw Pete wrote: »

Looked like a decent sized crowd but sure if people want to dismiss views... let them.

https://twitter.com/KatyRobinson198/status/881217325676072961

Actually that picture looks like the crowd was made up of a pretty varied swathe of society. I'm seeing quite a lot of women between 18 and 45 let's say. Certainly it is clear from that that its not a majority of older people attending.

freshpopcorn · 03-07-2017 01:44AM

_Whimsical_ wrote: »

Actually that picture looks like the crowd were made up of a pretty varied swathe of society. I'm seeing quite a lot of women between 18 and 45 let's say. Certainly it is clear from that that its not a majority of older people attending.

I'm actually amazed at the people I know who support the pro-life movement. Their the complete opposite to what the internet portrays.

Guy:Incognito · 03-07-2017 01:48AM

Quite a lot of middle aged men are very concerned with what young women do with their bodies. (Pic taken from a Facebook site shared by a middle aged man who's the father of a couple of my mates)

https://imgur.com/U7IsbyM

_Whimsical_ · 03-07-2017 01:52AM

freshpopcorn wrote: »

I'm actually amazed at the people I know who support the pro-life movement. Their the complete opposite to what the internet portrays.

I think a lot of people have more nuanced views than they feel are represented by the pro life or pro choice sides right now. Unfortunately we seem incapable of any sort of mature conversation about it or teasing out the issues in public. I'd love to see a proper, respectful debate about it but we always get a mud slinging "goodies vs baddies" approach.

_Whimsical_ · 03-07-2017 01:58AM

Guy:Incognito wrote: »

Quite a lot of middle aged men are very concerned with what young women do with their bodies. (Pic taken from a Facebook site shared by a middle aged man who's the father of a couple of my mates)

https://imgur.com/U7IsbyM

There are pictures of the entire crowd in this thread and is quite clear from them that there wasn't a single majority really amidst the couple of hundred faces visible.

If one side feels their grasp of the facts adequately supports their stance there's no reason for unrepresentative photos. You'll find fifteen or so middle aged men at pretty much every single event in Ireland. That there were several men in attendance is all we can accurately gather from that pic.

martingriff · 03-07-2017 01:59AM

Eyes Down Field wrote: »

I think the referendum on the 8th should be decided by women only. As a man, Why should I have a say in what a woman choses to do with her, body, her life.

So if you partner was pregnant you be happy if she just went and had a termination. After all it's her body why should a man (you) have a say

Guy:Incognito · 03-07-2017 02:00AM

How does it affect your life if someone you don't and will never know , has a procedure you will never know the person had, to terminate a pregnancy they didn't want and you didn't know existed in the first place?

Would all this wasted energy not be better put to use improving the lives of people that are suffering or struggling through life? Or are those people not worth your time?

Guy:Incognito · 03-07-2017 02:01AM

_Whimsical_ wrote: »

There are pictures of the entire crowd in this thread and is quite clear from them that there wasn't a single majority really amidst the couple of hundred faces visible.

If one side feels their grasp of the facts adequately supports their stance there's no reason for unrepresentative photos. You'll find fifteen or so middle aged men at pretty much every single event in Ireland. That there were several men in attendance is all we can accurately gather from that pic.

The picture was the main one that showed up on 2 separate pages he shared. I didn't go beyond the first pic they themselves shared.i don't share the views of these groups so have no desire to delve in to their Facebook pages .

Guy:Incognito · 03-07-2017 02:03AM

_Whimsical_ wrote: »

I think a lot of people have more nuanced views than they feel are represented by the pro life or pro choice sides right now. Unfortunately we seem incapable of any sort of mature conversation about it or teasing out the issues in public. I'd love to see a proper, respectful debate about it but we always get a mud slinging "goodies vs baddies" approach.

How about the simple solution of you stay out of my life and I stay out of yours. If you don't want an abortion youre free to not have one. The availability of abortion will have no impact on your life unless you go out of your way to involve yourself. Just like all the things I don't involve myself with don't impact my life.

gctest50 · 03-07-2017 02:04AM

martingriff wrote: »

So if you partner was pregnant you be happy if she just went and had a termination. After all it's her body why should a man (you) have a say

At the moment she can just get up and go abroad

Voting to keep things the way they are won't change that

martingriff · 03-07-2017 02:06AM

gctest50 wrote: »

martingriff wrote: »

So if you partner was pregnant you be happy if she just went and had a termination. After all it's her body why should a man (you) have a say

At the moment she can just get up and go abroad

True however my question still stands as her partner would he be happy that she just did it as it's her body he as a man should have no say

RDM_83 again · 03-07-2017 02:09AM

RayM wrote: »

It was a high turnout, as marches go, but probably nowhere near the 70,000 claimed by the organisers (and unquestioningly parroted by RTE). Maybe a bit closer to ten thousand than "the ten thousands", which is still very high. The majority of those participating were elderly and male, and there was a lot of religious iconography too (not that there's anything wrong with religious iconography, but carrying statues of the Virgin Mary down O'Connell Street is a bit "extra" if you ask me). There were a lot of priests present too, including a certain Fr Brian McKevitt (editor of Alive! magazine) in his full Dominican regalia. Not that there's anything wrong with that, but it's interesting that a genuine Christian like Fr Peter McVerry, for example, doesn't feel the need to prance around the north inner city in a gigantic white frock, swinging his rosary beads around and telling people what to do with their own bodies.

I don't know - I think the sight of elderly men shouting "murderer" at young women might be a bit alienating to people who are genuinely on the fence. Also, picking a child with Down Syndrome up and shoving her into the faces of counter-protesters might alienate people too. Both of those things happened at yesterday's march.

I do get why you would focus on the male participants because of the message you hope to send, but is there any evidence for the male thing? Any of the pro-life marches I've seen (never participated in any though) have more women than men so I would be surprised if this one is any different.

Ultimately I don't see the marches on either side making much difference, the most active friends of mine on the pro-choice side (weirdly) aren't citizens so won't have a vote and I know very few pro-life people and they keep it quiet.

I'm hopeful there will only be a lot of yelling and things won't descend into American style stuff.

Outlaw Pete · 03-07-2017 02:09AM

sabat wrote: »

That's just blatant lying.

Yet watch how much thanks that post gets in the coming days.

Truth is of little importance to some people.

gctest50 · 03-07-2017 02:11AM

martingriff wrote: »

True however my question still stands as her partner would he be happy that she just did it as it's her body he as a man should have no say

So you have a couple that are together and she wants to terminate her pregnancy and he doesn't want that to happen ? It's a hard case but hard cases make bad law

It should be illegal for every woman just because of a quarreling couple ?

Guy:Incognito · 03-07-2017 02:12AM

martingriff wrote: »

True however my question still stands as her partner would he be happy that she just did it as it's her body he as a man should have no say

Very few who are actually in a relationship would just up and do something without discussing it with their partner and going over options. Forcing people to flee the country for a medical procedure , if anything , will only increase the numbers of abortions because for most they will be working, may have to arrange to go on a weekend etc, will be probably panicking about time constraints and will rush in to it much easier when having the added crap ,and expense ,of booking flights, hotels etc and will be more reluctant to seek follow up care when they get back too.

People who want abortions can, and will go to England. All our stupid laws do is increase the risk of issues for these woman and put more strain on them, physically, mentally and financially. It serves no other purpose than to allow people who dont want to have anything to do with abortions anyway pretend that Irish people don't have them.

martingriff · 03-07-2017 02:16AM

gctest50 wrote: »

martingriff wrote: »

True however my question still stands as her partner would he be happy that she just did it as it's her body he as a man should have no say

So you have a couple that are together and she wants to terminate her pregnancy and he doesn't want that to happen ? It's a hard case but hard cases make bad law

It should be illegal for every woman just because of a quarreling couple ?

My point was down as the point no 1 who can give birth should vote in this referendum and just pointing out in my way that is a stupid idea. As a man has a hand (so to speak) in the pregnancy and they are a couple he should be heard

If a woman wants an abortion guy does not it's a relationship problem which a law can not fix or should.

_Whimsical_ · 03-07-2017 02:16AM

Guy:Incognito wrote: »

How about the simple solution of you stay out of my life and I stay out of yours. If you don't want an abortion youre free to not have one. The availability of abortion will have no impact on your life unless you go out of your way to involve yourself. Just like all the things I don't involve myself with don't impact my life.

You couldn't have proved my point better if you tried there.

I didn't say I'm anti abortion in every case. I'm not.

Admitting nuance, particularly in the light of the case this week that saw a girl who sought an abortion at 6 months choose to take that baby home with her to live, is surely acceptable? To want to have a conversation about it rather than exchange insults or use it as an opportunity for some tired value signaling is too much to ask?
That's frankly the sign of complete immaturity. Not suggesting that's just you, it's pretty much the cookie cutter response id expect from most pro choice advocates. Unfortunately for you though we all have vote and the more this hackneyed response is trotted out the more less vocal, more nuanced minded people the pro choice side will lose, for better or worse.

feargale · 03-07-2017 02:20AM

gctest50 wrote: »

And how many of them had a uterus and were aged between say 18 and 40 ?

That's me out then. I'm over 40 so I guess I can't vote.

And there was me thinking the only thing I was ineligible for was minor football.

Guy:Incognito · 03-07-2017 02:20AM

_Whimsical_ wrote: »

You couldn't have proved my point better if you tried there.

I didn't say I'm anti abortion in every case. I'm not.

Admitting nuance, particularly in the light of the case this week that saw a girl who sought an abortion at 6 months choose to take that baby home with her to live, is surely acceptable? To want to have a conversation about it rather than exchange insults or use it as an opportunity for some tired value signaling is too much to ask?
That's frankly the sign of complete immaturity. Not suggesting that's just you, it's pretty much the cookie cutter response id expect from most pro choice advocates. Unfortunately for you though we all have vote and the more this hackneyed response is trotted out the more less vocal, more nuanced minded people the pro choice side will lose, for better or worse.

People's reasons for abortions are their own and just like any decision in life , it's theirs to decide and to deal with consequences. Regardless of the changes, none of them will allow for abortions at 6 months anyway, and I don't see anyone advocating that it should, outside of certain circumstances.

But either way, giving carte Blanche to have abortions up till the day of delivery on the grounds that the person doesn't want a black haired baby wouldnt have any effect on your life anyway so why get involved ?

Again , do you not think all this energy could be better spent helping people that actually want help from people who clearly have time on their hands to give it?

gctest50 · 03-07-2017 02:27AM

_Whimsical_ wrote: »

.........the pro choice side will lose, for better or worse.

If the pro-choice side lose, women will still travel abroad like they have to do now

It's not a hurling match, there isn't winning and losing

There's travelling abroad for a medical procedure or staying here for it

It's not going to all magically disappear

I'd imagine there is a lot of money being gathered up under the banner of TeamProlife throughout the country ( how much of it makes it to the headquarters is another days work)

Annasopra · 03-07-2017 05:53AM

freshpopcorn wrote: »

I never had a doubt about the marriage referendum passing. I found during the marriage referendum everybody on Yes side was on the same page. However if you ask people in the repeal campaign what circumstances they want abortion legalised they can all give you different answers and don't agree with one another.

And? What has that got to do with the point you made?

freshpopcorn · 03-07-2017 06:03AM

Joeytheparrot wrote: »

And? What has that got to do with the point you made?

I forgot to mention it in my opening post and thought it was an appropriate reply to your comment.

Ann_Landers · 03-07-2017 06:27AM

RayM wrote: »

It was a high turnout, as marches go, but probably nowhere near the 70,000 claimed by the organisers (and unquestioningly parroted by RTE).

It seemed on a par with the Repeal march last September. Both were well attended. What I found curious though was the pro-life march was one of the main headlines on the RTÉ news site the day it happened whereas the news story on the Repeal march was well hidden on RTÉ New's front page the day it happened. Surely they should be on equal footing in terms of coverage?

Both marches had counter-protesters though there seemed to be more counter-protesters this weekend than at the Repeal march.

Ann_Landers · 03-07-2017 06:31AM

freshpopcorn wrote: »

They got a good crowd and the one thing for certain is most of these people will vote.

Weren't many of the protesters from Northern Ireland?

freshpopcorn · 03-07-2017 06:41AM

Ann_Landers wrote: »

It seemed on a par with the Repeal march last September. Both were well attended. What I found curious though was the pro-life march was one of the main headlines on the RTÉ news site the day it happened whereas the news story on the Repeal march was well hidden on RTÉ New's front page the day it happened. Surely they should be on equal footing in terms of coverage?

Both marches had counter-protesters though there seemed to be more counter-protesters this weekend than at the Repeal march.

I actually didn't see the news so I don't know about these all I can think of would they have being something more important in the news. That might have over shadowed it back in September.
I know they get stricter regarding these things at the time of a referendum. Generally you hear them on about having an equal amount of time to speak. I don't honestly know tough.
If either side isn't happy their well able to make a complaint.

Ann_Landers wrote: »

Weren't many of the protesters from Northern Ireland?

Well probably yes but you could say the same about younger people attending the repeal march back in September.(Not to generalise about age) However the grew vote can be very loyal.

Did anybody here attend the Rally For Life/repeal the 8th marches in Dublin?

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