National Championship 2017

1bryan wrote: »

It should be more than possible to facilitate both scenarios.

You make it sound rather simple, but there are plenty of restrictions on race organisers in terms of budget for manpower such as Gardaí or barrier rental, road closure orders that the local residents and county council(s) are happy with, traffic management plans that Gardaí and Co Cos must be happy with, resources such as volunteers for marshalling and race vehicles. That's just what I can think of off the top of my head.

Neither scenario is always possible.

Lets just do it in Corkagh Park. Half an hour plus three laps per race. Done.

1bryan wrote: »

all of which are in place from the thursday to the sunday of the national champs weekend. I'm not talking about making it an extra day. I'm talking about scheduling within the existing timeframe, so of course it is possible.

So how would you have scheduled the races within the existing timeframe?

1bryan wrote: »

it depends. If it's deemed that the women's race should take place on a different day to the men's (ie: the saturday), the races scheduled for that day could potentially be moved to a 9am start on the sunday, leaving saturday free for the women, and a sizeable gap to the elite race.

The county council says you can't extend your road closure to 9am as it will prevent deliveries taking place in the area, and impede residents getting to mass in the nearby busy church.

1bryan wrote: »

Or, if it's deemed the women's race take place on the sunday, allow an extra 30 mins to 1 hour, halfing the difference and starting each race accordingly (ie: women's race starts 30 mins earlier, men's, 30 mins later).

The county council says you can't extend your road closure any earlier, same reasons.

1bryan wrote: »

Or, less ideal admittedly, move the Master's races to a different weekend.

You've just doubled the workload for your volunteers!

If you move one race, you then have to move another.... etc etc .....
Id imagine its time (road closures + stewards + local residents) is the biggest constraint ?

buffalo wrote: »

The county council says you can't extend your road closure to 9am as it will prevent deliveries taking place in the area, and impede residents getting to mass in the nearby busy church.

oh, come off it. If that's true then I'm sure it wouldn't be too difficult to argue them down.

http://www.wexfordparish.com/mass-times

the 9am and 10am masses will get a clear run (though if there's a long sermon at the 10 mass they're fecked) but those going to 11 and 12, forget it.

and deliveries on a sunday? For real?

Sorry if that came across as facetious, but....

1bryan wrote: »

A better question would be; what would the women themselves prefer? A race on it's own, on a different day, or to ride the course on the same day as the elite men's race (with the crowds, etc)? It should be more than possible to facilitate both scenarios.

The last time they were on different days (and I'm open to correction on this), was Multyfarnham a few years ago. On the saturday there was, tragically, a fatal traffic accident on the course on the morning the race was due to take place. All racing, understandably, was cancelled that day and the races were run off later in the summer. I'm not suggesting this was a factor in deciding to put them on the same day in subsequent years but it is nice when all our national championship races can be disputed over a single weekend.

The last time they were on different days was Omagh. And all races went right up the main street of Omagh! It was a few years ago now but I don't remember any traffic problems.

I am a fan of the women's race being held on the Saturday. I understand the argument of getting the same crowd as the men on the Sunday and being on the same podium but imo having them on the same day will always make the women's feel like a bit of a support event, especially if run concurrently. I also wasn't a fan of having to wait around until after the men finish to get our medals and jerseys and I did give that feedback to the organisers last year. In Omagh the main event of the Saturday was the women's and there was reasonable crowds and there was a presentation on the podium at the finish line in front of all the spectators (with flowers and a trophy which pleased my Mum greatly!).

The women's races definitely has to happen on the nationals weekend. Otherwise it will clash with something internationally and not allow riders like me to come home for it.

1bryan wrote: »

it depends. If it's deemed that the women's race should take place on a different day to the men's (ie: the saturday), the races scheduled for that day could potentially be moved to a 9am start on the sunday, leaving saturday free for the women, and a sizeable gap to the elite race. Or, if it's deemed the women's race take place on the sunday, allow an extra 30 mins to 1 hour, halfing the difference and starting each race accordingly (ie: women's race starts 30 mins earlier, men's, 30 mins later).

Or, less ideal admittedly, move the Master's races to a different weekend.

The year I referred to in my previous post, the women's race eventually took place around mid-september - http://womenscycling.ie/preview-rescheduled-national-championships-saturday/

Genuine question - what was the last race you organised?

1bryan wrote: »

oh, come off it. If that's true then I'm sure it wouldn't be too difficult to argue them down.

http://www.wexfordparish.com/mass-times

the 9am and 10am masses will get a clear run (though if there's a long sermon at the 10 mass they're fecked) but those going to 11 and 12, forget it.

and deliveries on a sunday? For real?

Sorry if that came across as facetious, but....

Excellent research, but what about the masses in Castlebridge and Crossabeg where the races also passed through?

To be clear, what I was asking was why wasn't the womens race held separately altogether, but on the same weekend, as mentioned by others, with the idea of promoting the whole event as a weekend of racing.

I understand issues may be had with closure of roads etc, and I know it's not the same as rallying, but using this as a comparison, when enough people want it, it can be done.

I get the impression C.I. have little input with the clubs on organisation, maybe I'm wrong, but if that's the case I feel very sorry for the clubs involved organising the events, it's tough dealing with all the red tape (CoCo's, Gardai etc..) and then to have little to no support from the governing body sounds a bit mental.

I'm more of a MTB'r myself, but if the event was on locally to me I would definitely head out to spectate, women's or men's events.

A different event for sure, but the EWS in Wicklow this year, the women got every bit as loud a cheer when they were running the stages as the men.

lyders wrote: »

The last time they were on different days was Omagh. And all races went right up the main street of Omagh! It was a few years ago now but I don't remember any traffic problems.

I am a fan of the women's race being held on the Saturday. I understand the argument of getting the same crowd as the men on the Sunday and being on the same podium but imo having them on the same day will always make the women's feel like a bit of a support event, especially if run concurrently. I also wasn't a fan of having to wait around until after the men finish to get our medals and jerseys and I did give that feedback to the organisers last year. In Omagh the main event of the Saturday was the women's and there was reasonable crowds and there was a presentation on the podium at the finish line in front of all the spectators (with flowers and a trophy which pleased my Mum greatly!).

The women's races definitely has to happen on the nationals weekend. Otherwise it will clash with something internationally and not allow riders like me to come home for it.

If you have issues, I do not think, as a National Champion, this is the medium or the method to address them. Have you picked up the phone and spoken to CI President about these issues? (His mobile number is on the CI website)
The timing and method of your criticism will put off current and potential race organisers. You are doing no favours for those who race in Ireland.

longshank wrote: »

If you have issues, I do not think, as a National Champion, this is the medium or the method to address them. Have you picked up the phone and spoken to CI President about these issues? (His mobile number is on the CI website)
The timing and method of your criticism will put off current and potential race organisers. You are doing no favours for those who race in Ireland.

This is not my medium or method of addressing issues. This is my medium and method of replying to people to give my opinion and insight. Some of which was asked for and some not!

Criticism is good if constructive. I believe I have been massively constructive in what I have said on here and elsewhere and to the President of CI.

I am doing what I can and what I feel is right for cycling in Ireland. Whatever your stance is, the events that occurred during the women's race can not be allowed to happen again. This shouldn't put organisers off. It's just that things need to be looked at again. There are always lessons to be learned.

And FYI way back in the day I started my cycling career via Boards.ie and I always believed it was good home for discussion. I'd never tell anyone they shouldn't be posting on here.

lyders wrote: »

And FYI way back in the day I started my cycling career via Boards.ie and I always believed it was good home for discussion. I'd never tell anyone they shouldn't be posting on here.

Any chance you would take up your boards training / racing log again, it would be great to get an insight into the world of women's professional racing.

longshank wrote: »

Have you picked up the phone and spoken to CI President about these issues?

I think you're mistaking the national champion for Batman

longshank wrote: »

Sure I fully understand your views and agree with them mostly, organisers are human and criticism be it constructive or not has an effect and the method by which it is delivered (and I'm not just referring to boards) has an effect. These effects can be unintentional but have real consequences. My club were tentatively considering running the Nat Champs in the coming years but after the public criticism this year I cant see that idea being revisited....a real consequence.

Or ........
Maybe whatever club that take it on for next year will learn from any (unintentional) mistakes from this years ??