Flaxseeds, glutten-free bread etc - do believe in new age eating habits?

seamus · 27-06-2017 11:39AM

twill wrote: »

It is indeed a thing. You'll find it in people with certain chronic illnesses, so the fad argument doesn't really work there.

There is still quite a bit of debate about it tbh.

While it is well established that eating a reduced gluten or reduced wheat diet tends to yield improvements in people with gastrointestinal disorders, especially IBS sufferers, the nature of this improvement is subject to debate.

One theory is that the discomfort is actually caused by FODMAPs in the diet. And that by changing ones diet to reduce the volume of gluten and wheat, you reduce the volume of FODMAPs in the diet and therefore see a marked improvement in comfort. In that case, people aren't specifically sensitive to gluten, but rather by reducing the amount of bread they eat, they have a knock-on impact of removing the things from their diet that are causing the problem.

My suspicion around "gluten sensitivity" for most people is that it's probably an auto-immune disorder as a result of being raised in exceptionally (and increasingly) sterile environments and eating for more simple sugars than we ever did previously. As a result in some people the immune system loses its **** when they eat large quantities of bread and other simple carbs.

I don't have a problem with fad diets or fashion foods. It happens all the time. Avocados are the thing at the moment. I hate avocados, they taste like grass. But I'm not going to complain that people are loving avocados.

The gluten fad has massively improved the range of foods available to actual coeliac sufferers, and that can only be a good thing. Likewise, there's a growing fad movement towards reducing dairy in the diet. And fad or not, reducing our dependance on animal produce and moving towards a vegan diet is essential for the future. So that too can only be a good thing.

twill · 27-06-2017 12:03PM

whoopsadoodles wrote: »

Although the USA headline today suggests it's gluten on its own that's the problem, the actual study that it refers to speaks about wheat specifically. So other gluten containing products such as barley and rye are not included.

Therefore, the intolerance is to wheat, not gluten.

The study refers to wheat and related cereals (wheat, rye and barley were the cereals used for testing and exclusion) and specifically addresses gluten, or I wouldn't have cited it.

seamus wrote: »

There is still quite a bit of debate about it tbh.

While it is well established that eating a reduced gluten or reduced wheat diet tends to yield improvements in people with gastrointestinal disorders, especially IBS sufferers, the nature of this improvement is subject to debate.

My mother was told by someone who is regarded as a foremost consultant in the area of osteoporosis to cut out gluten as it was worsening her condition. Gluten is linked to illness - I don't see why it should be regarded as a controversial issue.

seamus · 27-06-2017 12:07PM

twill wrote: »

Gluten is linked to illness - I don't see why it should be regarded as a controversial issue.

Because there's a surprising amount of evangelism about it; people who make a big deal out of their gluten-free diet and make grand pronouncements about how unhealthy you are when you dare to eat white bread.

twill · 27-06-2017 12:08PM

seamus wrote: »

Because there's a surprising amount of evangelism about it; people who make a big deal out of their gluten-free diet and make grand pronouncements about how unhealthy you are when you dare to eat white bread.

That's a separate issue, though. It doesn't take away from the people who are adversely affected and who get lumped in with those who regard it as a lifestyle choice.

RedTie · 27-06-2017 12:17PM

Re: Bread

A colleague of mine said, in one of those post work Friday pub chats where people tend to talk nonsense sometimes, that we're not meant to eat bread or drink milk. That both of them are relatively new in our food habits and our digestive system hasnt adjusted fully to either.

"relatively new" in that humans are 200,000 years old.

Any truth in that?

seamus · 27-06-2017 12:17PM

twill wrote: »

That's a separate issue, though. It doesn't take away from the people who are adversely affected and who get lumped in with those who regard it as a lifestyle choice.

Agreed. I guess that's what the thread is about though.

Where you find people who evangelise about something, you will equally find people calling it all nonsense and calling everyone a faker.

Especially where the research is still relatively new, then you will have people continue to declare it either definitively true or definitely false until we have more data.

seamus · 27-06-2017 12:28PM

RedTie wrote: »

A colleague of mine said, in one of those post work Friday pub chats where people tend to talk nonsense sometimes, that we're not meant to eat bread or drink milk. That both of them are relatively new in our food habits and our digestive system hasnt adjusted fully to either.

Depends on what you mean by "meant to". We have a digestive system that has evolved to allow for an omnivorous diet.

It hasn't been pre-programmed to only allow certain foods. Mammals in general only express lactase for the first few months of their life, which allows you to digest lactose. Humans have bucked this trend by drinking other animals' milk for longer periods. This results in lactase being expressed for longer (or whole lifetimes) in communities where milk consumption is normal. In communities where it's not, most people are lactose intolerent.

They're all human, but because of environmental factors, one can drink milk and another can't. Which one is "meant to" drink milk?

So the notion that the human body has a finite set of things we're "meant to" eat is flawed in itself. You can't even say we're "meant to" eat things which we can digest. Fibre/plant matter is largely undigestible by human but plays an important role in motility. Just like crocodiles swallow small stones.

What we're "meant to" eat is a wide range of things which don't poison us and things which don't injure us. What those "things" are is largely irrelevant. That's how we've evolved.

nearzero · 27-06-2017 12:32PM

RedTie wrote: »

Re: Bread

A colleague of mine said, in one of those post work Friday pub chats where people tend to talk nonsense sometimes, that we're not meant to eat bread or drink milk. That both of them are relatively new in our food habits and our digestive system hasnt adjusted fully to either.

"relatively new" in that humans are 200,000 years old.

Any truth in that?

I'd have to find the studies again but I think what they might mean is - there has been studies done which show we dont have the natural enzymes in our digestive system which are designed to break down other animals milk & I think the same goes for wheat.

ScumLord · 27-06-2017 12:39PM

RedTie wrote: »

Re: Bread

A colleague of mine said, in one of those post work Friday pub chats where people tend to talk nonsense sometimes, that we're not meant to eat bread or drink milk. That both of them are relatively new in our food habits and our digestive system hasnt adjusted fully to either.

"relatively new" in that humans are 200,000 years old.

Any truth in that?

The ancestors of humans swung in a tree and eat fruit. One day one of those apse said he'd eat whatever the **** he wants and strutted off into the grass plains, 2 million years later here we are.

Wibbs · 27-06-2017 01:43PM

RedTie wrote: »

Re: Bread

A colleague of mine said, in one of those post work Friday pub chats where people tend to talk nonsense sometimes, that we're not meant to eat bread or drink milk. That both of them are relatively new in our food habits and our digestive system hasnt adjusted fully to either.

"relatively new" in that humans are 200,000 years old.

Any truth in that?

Not really, or depends on ancestry. Our ancestors from 40,000 years ago would have been intolerant to lactose in milk(as adults) and somewhat intolerant to gluten in grains(Neandertals were making grain "biscuits" long before that so we've had some grains in our diets).

Since then the human genome has shown a lot of changes and most of them are responses to novel foods in our diets. So for example Europeans evolved lactose tolerance when humans developed agriculture. Widespread gluten tolerance came with it. On the other hand in India because the cow was sacred for so long far more Indians are lactose intolerant. Alcohol was another adaptation. Europeans tended to sterilise water by making alcoholic drinks, whereas many Asian cultures boiled water to make teas. The latter have more individuals who can't break down alcohol as readily as Europeans(and look how alcohol has affected populations like Native Americans and Native Australians).

These changes can be "rapid" enough too. Alcohol consumption hasn't been around that long and we adapted to it. One theory why coeliac disease is more common in Ireland than in the rest of Europe is because after the discovery of the potato and its wide uptake among the population here, it replaced grains as the main source of starch in the diet and even over a few hundred years this was enough to skew the gluten adaptation.

In the last say fifty years more and more novel foods have made their way into the western diet. Personally I would be of the opinion that some may not suit some of us. EG Soya. Irish people have only had soya in our regular diets for a generation, Asians have had it for two thousand years. I'd personally avoid the stuff(even beyond the hormone mimicking it does).

Tar.Aldarion · 27-06-2017 02:51PM

Literally everything we eat is new in our diets, we have done selective breeding/splicing, radiation mutation and now gmo. Avoiding anything due to it being new is incorrect.

We do not adapt to some things, alcohol is carcinogenic, frying/toasting/browning food is too.

Send In The Robots · 27-06-2017 03:15PM

RedTie wrote: »

Re: Bread

A colleague of mine said, in one of those post work Friday pub chats where people tend to talk nonsense sometimes, that we're not meant to eat bread or drink milk. That both of them are relatively new in our food habits and our digestive system hasnt adjusted fully to either.

"relatively new" in that humans are 200,000 years old.

Any truth in that?

Some truth, modern farming including (wheat) bread and cow's milk only go back around 10,000yrs, before that it was whatever (nomads) could be pick, hunt or fish. If they did ever bake breads then they were from a wider mix of various ancient milled seeds and grains.

A wide variety of fruit, seeds, fish and meat is the stable of the popular caveman (paleo) diet, rather than hormone, preservative, enhanced and emulsifier laden packaged goods.

There was most likely periods of fasting between gathering foods, which can be useful for detoxification. i.e. There was 'accidentally obese' people back then.

ScumLord · 27-06-2017 04:02PM

Tar.Aldarion wrote: »

Literally everything we eat is new in our diets, we have done selective breeding/splicing, radiation mutation and now gmo. Avoiding anything due to it being new is incorrect.

We do not adapt to some things, alcohol is carcinogenic, frying/toasting/browning food is too.

Yeah, we're still not able to breath oxygen without doing irreparable damage to our DNA, and we've been doing that for billions of years.

The body is like a hazard suit, everything damages it to some extent, it has a shelf life.

professore · 27-06-2017 04:35PM

Cee-Jay-Cee wrote: »

My 4yr old daughter is coeliac and I have tasted everything she eats and in 90% of cases there is no discernible difference between the GF version and regular version. The one with the biggest difference is white bread but saying that there are breads available which actually taste very good and it wouldn't bother me to eat them regularly, the only thing stopping us (as a family) from eating it all the time is the price of it as its over €4 for a small loaf.

Cereals and biscuits/cakes taste the same and better in some cases. Many foods are naturally gluten free but are prepared/manufactured in a factory which handles other products containing gluten and so there is cross contamination and so they have to state that on the packaging. My daughter is ultra sensitive to gluten and will vomit violently about 1-3hrs after only a tiny mouthful of a food containing gluten and so she has to avoid anything that has even trace amounts of gluten.

Sorry but there is a huge difference in taste. Maybe if you eat Brennans warmed up dough but if you eat any kind of half decent baked bread and pastry - even Lidl's bakery - there is an enormous difference. I am the only non-coeliac in my family and let's just say everyone is envious of me. I would not voluntarily eat gluten free bread.

Pizzas are another one. Gluten free pizzas are disgusting.

Wibbs · 27-06-2017 04:38PM

Send In The Robots wrote: »

A wide variety of fruit, seeds, fish and meat is the stable of the popular caveman (paleo) diet, rather than hormone, preservative, enhanced and emulsifier laden packaged goods.

The joke being that although it is a better diet than the average, precious few of the foods, particularly the veg ever existed in the palaeolithic. Most veg eaten would have been of the root variety. Leafy greens as we eat them today didn't exist in the majority of cases. The diet eaten in that period also massively depended on the environment the person found themselves in.

There was most likely periods of fasting between gathering foods, which can be useful for detoxification.

When localised famine hit certainly. Otherwise they could live in an environment of plenty. Their diets were far more varied and seasonal, with little to no sugar(though some root veg are packed with starches). Their lifestyle was far more vigorous. Every day was a crossfit day. They were slightly different peoples too. Stronger with higher bone densities, bigger teeth and so forth.

ScumLord · 27-06-2017 04:55PM

Wibbs wrote: »

When localised famine hit certainly. Otherwise they could live in an environment of plenty.

My guess would be that famine wasn't as much of an issue to a hunter gather that could have a range of hundreds of miles. Hunter gathers could have spent their time going up and down a known root planning to be in locations at particular times of year. I think if one food source went bad they had others and even if multiple known food sources went bad they could depend on other tribes telling them other places to get food. We developed our sociability at this time so I'd say hunters could just as easily have been very nice to each other considering there was feck all of them.

Ipso · 27-06-2017 05:28PM

I wonder what Gwyneth Paltrow has to say on the matter!

AudreyHepburn · 27-06-2017 06:13PM

The only fad like thing I do is to sprinkle Flax seed on my cereal which I do simply because I like the taste, no other reason.

I don't believe in fad diets and eliminating entire food groups. It's unhealthy and unsustainable in most cases - eat what you want in moderation and exercise accordingly is my philosophy.

The Backwards Man · 27-06-2017 06:29PM

It's far from putting lint on my Weetabix I was reared.

27-06-2017 06:41PM

My girlfriend and myself have both had to experiment with foods a bit because of medical reasons. Hers to try and reduce flares of an autoimmune disease and me, to narrow down a problem.

It turns out that I was likely having a mild reaction to peanuts which I used to eat by the bag raw at least once a week.

There's definitely medical need for some people to do this but it's an expensive waste if you don't need it.
If you think you're feeling better for it, it's probably because of your general self-improvement mood or whatever. My brother went on all that stuff and swore by it till he started moving around a lot and couldn't carry it. He realized it was the other lifestyle changes he made that were helping.

The real problem people have is sugar. You'd be astonished at where you find it.

Whispered · 27-06-2017 08:03PM

I am a bit faddy with my diet I suppose. When some new "superfood" comes up, I would have a look, although rarely convinced enough to buy. I'm interested in food and I think it's the most important aspect of a healthy life but there is some amount of bull too. Like those weight loss shakes and teas. Obviously if you replace a meal with a drink you'll loose weight.......

I like chia seeds and flax seeds, avoid sugar apart from when I'm having a treat, make kefir, watch the ingredients in what I buy, cook as much as I can from scratch, and try to buy meat from local butchers (currently trying to source game which doesn't cost an arm and a leg). I think a move towards more sustainable, local products would be a good thing, I find food at the local farmers markets to be prohibitively expensive for doing a weeks shop.

Django99 · 27-06-2017 09:00PM

I find diets and the health food industry and even the fitness industry fairly bizzare. I think most people over the age of 14 can tell what a healthy diet is. It's fairly easy to experiment and find out which foods make you feel good and which ones don't. It's also fairly easy to know that exercise is healthy.

Sugar however is a very interesting subject. It's pretty much an addictive drug, that nobody would ever crave unless they were given it in the first place. Yet almost everybody craves sugar at some point.

Dr Crayfish · 27-06-2017 09:25PM

The one eating habit I'd like to see in Ireland is eating more of our home grown seasonable vegetables, and seafood and meat from our waters and lands too.
I'm not sure if it will be sustainable to have every type of vegetable and fish available all year round all over the country via imports.
So in winter maybe lots of root vegetables and potatoes and stuff that can be grown year round and later in the year we'd have tomatoes and lettuce and all that good stuff. I'd imagine it must have been exciting knowing that your favourite food would soon be in season.
Now we just fly in avocados from Peru en masse. Looking at where vegetables come from in our supermarkets is an eye opener. It doesn't sit well with me.

...And Justice · 27-06-2017 10:06PM

Dr Crayfish wrote: »

The one eating habit I'd like to see in Ireland is eating more of our home grown seasonable vegetables, and seafood and meat from our waters and lands too.
I'm not sure if it will be sustainable to have every type of vegetable and fish available all year round all over the country via imports.
So in winter maybe lots of root vegetables and potatoes and stuff that can be grown year round and later in the year we'd have tomatoes and lettuce and all that good stuff. I'd imagine it must have been exciting knowing that your favourite food would soon be in season.
Now we just fly in avocados from Peru en masse. Looking at where vegetables come from in our supermarkets is an eye opener. It doesn't sit well with me.

Down in wexford, there's more organic vegetables, fruits and fish than anywhere in the country. They eat well and don't suffer as much as the rest of us with these intolerable foods. It's all about what shít you were fed as a child.

Dr Crayfish · 27-06-2017 10:27PM

...And Justice wrote: »

Down in wexford, there's more organic vegetables, fruits and fish than anywhere in the country. They eat well and don't suffer as much as the rest of us with these intolerable foods. It's all about what shít you were fed as a child.

That sounds great, strawberry country. It would be nice if we could support local farmers.
My mother always fed me well and still does when she can. With the amount of fat kids I've been noticing lately it doesn't bode well for our future generations however.

27-06-2017 10:29PM

Dr Crayfish wrote: »

The one eating habit I'd like to see in Ireland is eating more of our home grown seasonable vegetables, and seafood and meat from our waters and lands too.
I'm not sure if it will be sustainable to have every type of vegetable and fish available all year round all over the country via imports.
So in winter maybe lots of root vegetables and potatoes and stuff that can be grown year round and later in the year we'd have tomatoes and lettuce and all that good stuff. I'd imagine it must have been exciting knowing that your favourite food would soon be in season.
Now we just fly in avocados from Peru en masse. Looking at where vegetables come from in our supermarkets is an eye opener. It doesn't sit well with me.

That's how I grew up and it wasn't that long ago, it's amazing how much things have changed. Rhubarb season is still a thing though, you'll never see it out of season

27-06-2017 10:32PM

...And Justice wrote: »

Down in wexford, there's more organic vegetables, fruits and fish than anywhere in the country. They eat well and don't suffer as much as the rest of us with these intolerable foods. It's all about what shít you were fed as a child.

On the negative side though, Wexford people are some of the most hideous looking creatures in nature

Dr Crayfish · 27-06-2017 10:40PM

riffmongous wrote: »

On the negative side though, Wexford people are some of the most hideous looking creatures in nature

It's one of those places you go and suspect everybody of being a traveller, at least I do.

...And Justice · 27-06-2017 11:02PM

Dr Crayfish wrote: »

It's one of those places you go and suspect everybody of being a traveller, at least I do.

That's rathkeele your thinking of. I've been going down to wexford for 35 years and it's only in the last 20 that I've noticed we eat rubbish crap in northern Leinster. Every food is fresh when I go down, real potatoes, strawberries, fresh fish and chicken grown locally to rosslare and surrounding areas. The food is good and so is the weather. Can't ask for better.

Beanntraigheach · 28-06-2017 12:05AM

I've been following a special healthy diet for years and, while it's cost me a fecking fortune, it's done me the world of good.

I'm 112 years young, look like a Greek god, and am fit and healthy beyond belief.
On my 100th birthday I swam around the island of Ireland in under twelve hours, I've lifted a minibus, plus (terrified) passengers, above my head, and can pull nails out of planks of wood with my teeth.
My libido is insatiable and my stamina in the bedroom simply boundless. Three of my partners have died from sheer exhaustion and I've sired countless children in my time, all of them strong robust males.

My secret? Pickled walrus penises washed down with gallons of cider vinegar.

Flaxseeds, glutten-free bread etc - do believe in new age eating habits?

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