Lions 2017 [MOD WARNING IN OP]

irishbucsfan wrote: »

Well that's pretty subjective unless you wan't to break out the stopwatch.

But what's key is that Lawes uses both his arms and wraps Plisson. Kaino uses neither and hits Murray below the knee which is a yellow card offense even if it's not late.

Kaino's arms are stretched out in front him. I think the first contact is one of his hands on Murray's leg.

Just to clarify, are you saying that tackling someone below the knee is a YC offence?

irishbucsfan wrote: »

No. One arm is underneath him and the other arms goes past Murray. He clearly does not use his arms.

Tackling below the knee without wrapping is a yellow card offense. Lydiate has been sin binned for it

His arm goes past Murray. So he was attempting to use his arm in the tackle. If Murray runs its a tackle but he kicked so it was a slightly late tackle.

Surely Lydiate got binned for no arms in the tackle and the fact it was below the knee was irrelevant. If he had used the same technique and hit the player in the thighs/ back/ chest it's still a binning.

Yeah_Right wrote: »

His arm goes past Murray. So he was attempting to use his arm in the tackle.

No, not really. He didn't use his arms at all, he hit Murray with his shoulder.

Yes, Lydiate was done for a no arms tackle, but that happening below the knee is something they're specifically looking out for because its very dangerous and has ended careers elsewhere. There's a difference between the laws and the current interpretation of them by referees. For example a dangerous tip tackle is simple in law and is a penalty, while the different degree of tip tackles and how they are treated (IE red or yellow) is more complex and more fluid. Thats a little off topic though.

Former Former wrote: »

I'd say Yeah_Right is dying to tell a few lads not to be a sook, jeez.

Haha. I would never do that.

Honestly, if a player dives at a kicker with arms (or arm) out stretched I can see that it could result in an injury to the kicker but I don't see that it is illegal under the laws of the game. If they changed the laws for safety then fine. Much like they did with collar grabbing, seatbelt tackles and neck rolls.

I think I said similar when there was the controversy about it following the Munster v Glasgow match.

Yeah_Right wrote: »

Haha. I would never do that.

Honestly, if a player dives at a kicker with arms (or arm) out stretched I can see that it could result in an injury to the kicker but I don't see that it is illegal under the laws of the game. If they changed the laws for safety then fine. Much like they did with collar grabbing, seatbelt tackles and neck rolls.

I think I said similar when there was the controversy about it following the Munster v Glasgow match.

I'm loathed to get involved in some ways as I think the "Murray was cynically targeted" thing has been massively overplayed. But I can't agree re Kaino at all.







If you look at the stills he sure as hell isn't making an attempt to tackle. His body position is all wrong for a tackle attempt and he falls well short of where Murray is for something like that.

He's also in absolutely no position to charge down the ball. For starters he's on the wrong side and Murray was never angling to kick back inside. But he never gets enough height to charge down a box kick either. At his highest he's at the point where the ball is at its lowest. And he's miles away from it.

At best this was an utterly woeful attempt at a charge down from Kaino. But the reality is, I suspect, that he knew what he was doing. He was looking to rough up Murray a bit. In some ways that's to be expected, but that sort of thing can be dangerous.

I've finally managed to find a gif of Sam Cane's forearm smash to a prone Davies at the ruck last Saturday.
I called it at the time on the match thread (though I thought it was a headbutt when watching live).
Incredibly lucky, JD tried to draw attention, but Peyper (in his defence) had just looked away to check the Lions defensive line were onside.

"Fine lines".

Can't link from work, will add later.

Could someone please give me the link to the full game on YouTube ? Avoided the score all day and it's hard to do so when searching on YouTube.

molloyjh wrote: »

I'm loathed to get involved in some ways as I think the "Murray was cynically targeted" thing has been massively overplayed. But I can't agree re Kaino at all.







If you look at the stills he sure as hell isn't making an attempt to tackle. His body position is all wrong for a tackle attempt and he falls well short of where Murray is for something like that.

He's also in absolutely no position to charge down the ball. For starters he's on the wrong side and Murray was never angling to kick back inside. But he never gets enough height to charge down a box kick either. At his highest he's at the point where the ball is at its lowest. And he's miles away from it.

At best this was an utterly woeful attempt at a charge down from Kaino. But the reality is, I suspect, that he knew what he was doing. He was looking to rough up Murray a bit. In some ways that's to be expected, but that sort of thing can be dangerous.

It's an interesting few seconds there. Kaino is offside (hands on the ground), Faletau and Kruis both block AB players (Kaino and Read I think) and Kaino hits Murray a fraction late. Lots of penalties.

Kaino is targeting Murray's standing leg but that is a legitimate target. If he hits it before Murray kicks, it's a spilt ball or shanked kick.