DCM 2017 Mentored Novices Thread

Wubble Wubble · 25-06-2017 11:09AM

Baby75 wrote: »

Well done on all the running everyone

I ran in the quarter distance today in the waterford viking Marathon I loved every second of it, the last mile was hard going as the pace increased but was so hilly but I enjoyed using the down hill to my advantage and using it to run faster. but the finish line was at the bottom of a lovely down hill great for sprinting through the finish line LOL, I have to say I was watching the half and full Marathon runners and think I will run the full next year all going well

Well done on this, not an easy course having cast my eye over the other thread!

Wubble Wubble · 25-06-2017 11:13AM

quickbeam wrote: »

Monday - 11.38km @ 7:53 - this is the same route I tried and failed twice to do the previous week, so nice to have "conquerored" it at last. About half way through I was thinking how nice and easy the pace felt, and how I felt I could go all day on it. By the time I got to the end, I was very much glad to be stopping.
Tuesday - rest
Wednesday - 5.15km @ 7:23
Thursday - rest
Friday - 5.13km @ 7:15
Saturday - 5km Parkrun @ 6:43
Sunday - rest

One thing I notice about my long runs, now that I'm running on the streets, is that I find it really hard, both mentally and physically, to keep going if I have to stop for any reason. Stopping, of course, would be for things like crossing roads, rather than for tiredness reasons. When I'm in my stride, I feel like I'm on auto-pilot and can keep going. But when forced to stop, it's like I have to jack up the engine again and it requires a huge push to do so. Is this normal? Is it good for disipline, endurance, muscles, etc, to have to do this occasionally?

I'm hoping for a 12km long run next week, so my distance increases a little, even though HHN1 only has me down for a 10km. Should also manage at least one day of walking as cross-training, which I didn't manage this week. I am hugely excited to be on a plan, and am really looking forward to the Fingal 10K in only four weeks!!

Yes, I get this all the time. Unless you're doing loops of a park, unfortunately such interruptions are commonplace running in cities! Do you stop altogether if stopped at a crossing, or do you (for example) jog on the spot while waiting? I find the latter keeps me going, especially if I'm tiring in the later stages of LSRs

Wubble Wubble · 25-06-2017 11:14AM

Lazare wrote: »

Ran the Dunshaughlin 10k last night.

Super race, great buzz about it, seemed the whole town was out supporting. Really tough last 3 or 4k, there was a tough climb at about 7k that seemed to go on forever, was waiting on the fast downhill but it never came. The finish was great, they had distance markers every 200m for the last kilometer. Managed a good sprint for the last 100m to come home in 47:57. Pretty happy with that given my pb before that from April was 49:38 on a faster course.

Such a boost to see results of training already.

Great running Lazare, a big PB and it seems like you really enjoyed it!

Wubble Wubble · 25-06-2017 11:18AM

Yevon wrote: »

Got a nice 10k in last night. 52 minutes. Started very slowly and was able to push the last 2 kilometres which were my fastest. Hamstrings didn't bother me which was, if nothing else, a great confidence boost ahead of Clontarf Half Marathon next Sunday.

Debating whether to go out with the 1.50 pacers and hang on as long as I can or whether to be conservative and go with the 2 hours pacers and try shave some time off in the last 5k. Or whether to just run my own race on the day based on how I'm feeling...

Based on your 10k time above, I would say yes to this. There'll be a large group hanging around those pacers, and regardless you'll have someone to push you in this race. I'm not sure if you've run Clontarf before? but if you do decide to go past the pacers early, on the way back there's a couple of very tough stretches into the wind, particularly the section from 14-17k approx. on the beach. Best of luck with it!

Wubble Wubble · 25-06-2017 11:21AM

clickerquicklic wrote: »

Why does everyone talk in min/ miles ? I set my watch up in min/km's
Trying to read this thread I've no idea what pace people are running !

skyblue46 wrote: »

I second that!!!! Can't figure some out at all. Trying to figure out if someone uses miles as distance does it automatically mean the pace they quote is miles and the same for kms.

Ah yeah the old miles vs. kms debate

Some time back on this thread, another poster brought it up. No right or wrong answer here I'm afraid. Whatever works best for you I suppose, although for training runs I'm generally a miles man. Yes to the part I've emphasised

Wubble Wubble · 25-06-2017 11:48AM

3, 2, 1....GO!

And we're off! The official start of the 18 week plans is finally upon us

Week 1

Hopefully most if not all of you are still feeling confident about hitting those targets. So many Novices have put in a huge amount already, in relation to building up the bases, slowing down those training runs (hard as it may be!!) and managing to fit your training into some very busy real life schedules. In addition, we've already had some outstanding race results, as even the base building phase of the training is paying off

Schedules for Week 1 are:

HHN1: 3m easy + 3m easy + 3m easy + 6m LSR + cross
Boards: 3m easy + 4m PMP (with 5 x 100m strides) + 3m easy + 8m LSR + 2m rec.

HH has a gentler introduction to marathon training, whereas the Boards plan goes up the gears fairly sharply in relation to mileage. For those on the Boards plan, I recommend leaving the strides to near the end of your run.

Cycling is a very popular form of cross training, and also yoga & pilates can work very well here. Of course, the old gym work is more than valid too.

Remember that you can switch these runs around to suit your own personal circumstances, but the two most important each week are the LSRs and (for Novices following the Boards plan) the sessions.

General guidelines are still very much applicable to all of us. Listen to your body and be prepared to stop if there's anything you're not happy with. Keep the runs slow, especially the longer ones

For those of you currently injured or just back from injury, take your time coming back into it. It's very easy in theory to jump back in at the pace you were going pre-injury, but equally it can increase the chance of further injury. Better to have 3/4 weeks on the sidelines and come back fully recovered, than start back after for example 2 weeks and still not right.

So there we are. I'm looking forward to the next 18 weeks as you progress from marathon Novices to fully fledged Graduates on October 29. Good luck!

Battery Kinzie · 25-06-2017 01:09PM

Meno plan is only 17 weeks as far as I can remember, but I think I'll start it this week anyway to give myself a week buffer for holidays or rest week or anything like that.

Good luck to all.

scotindublin · 25-06-2017 01:14PM

Good luck to all the novices kicking off the 18 week plan this week.

Remember ask loads of questions and be there to encourage/support each other over the next 18 weeks. You are all in this together.

You are all in good hands with WW!

Let's do this......

The Black Oil · 25-06-2017 01:23PM

Best of luck to all novices.

Lots of enthusiasm and questions in the thread which is good to see.

Don't forget, from now on...mind your sleep.

scotindublin · 25-06-2017 02:22PM

WW is there a curfew on posting on the thread this year? I seem to remember Nop keeping us on a regimented schedule last year!

Omeceron · 25-06-2017 03:15PM

RayCun · 25-06-2017 03:17PM

In case any of you haven't entered yet - the price goes up at the end of the month, and they expect the race to sell out about a week later.

nop98 · 25-06-2017 03:58PM

A quick note to wish the class of 2017 the very best of luck at the start of the 18-week cycle!

Plenty of activity and enthusiasm on the thread already, as it should be - and I really like to see the weekly updates of completed training runs. You're in excellent hands with Wubble Wubble and his backroom staff - and in each other's company!

You'll come to appreciate that getting to the start line of DCM'17 will be harder than getting to the finish. Slow down your training runs! I'm sure you'll feel you can run much faster, or that you can knock-out a quick parkrun PB, but the objective is to be able to recover sufficiently for the next run, and the next run, and the next one! This will get particularly important when the fun of 18-20M LSRs start. Don't get intimidated by the mileages and paces that other folks post. There's always a faster runner out there, and you're here to run your own training and (eventually) race, not someone else's...

Pick a plan, slow down, stick with the plan, slow down, and look after yourselves!

All the very best - it's going to be be epic! (oh, and slow down some more!)

Lazare · 25-06-2017 06:05PM

The recovery advisor on my watch is telling me I'm cooked for another 50 hours. I obey that religiously since being injured earlier this year. So I'm gonna start my plan on Wed, do the session Thurs, rest Sat and LSR on Sunday. Still going to the gym session tomorrow morning though.

Good luck all, let's do this.

Omeceron · 25-06-2017 06:08PM

Lazare wrote: »

The recovery advisor on my watch is telling me I'm cooked for another 50 hours. I obey that religiously since being injured earlier this year. So I'm gonna start my plan on Wed, do the session Thurs, rest Sat and LSR on Sunday. Still going to the gym session tomorrow morning though.

Good luck all, let's do this.

Whats this? Ive seen some recovery messages pop up on my watch but I just ignore them...

Lazare · 25-06-2017 06:14PM

Omeceron wrote: »

Whats this? Ive seen some recovery messages pop up on my watch but I just ignore them...

I've not looked into the science behind it but it always seems accurate. I think you need a fairly accurate max heart rate inputted for it to calculate correctly.

skyblue46 · 25-06-2017 07:33PM

nop98 wrote: »

A quick note to wish the class of 2017 the very best of luck at the start of the 18-week cycle!

Plenty of activity and enthusiasm on the thread already, as it should be - and I really like to see the weekly updates of completed training runs. You're in excellent hands with Wubble Wubble and his backroom staff - and in each other's company!

You'll come to appreciate that getting to the start line of DCM'17 will be harder than getting to the finish. Slow down your training runs! I'm sure you'll feel you can run much faster, or that you can knock-out a quick parkrun PB, but the objective is to be able to recover sufficiently for the next run, and the next run, and the next one! This will get particularly important when the fun of 18-20M LSRs start. Don't get intimidated by the mileages and paces that other folks post. There's always a faster runner out there, and you're here to run your own training and (eventually) race, not someone else's...

Pick a plan, slow down, stick with the plan, slow down, and look after yourselves!

All the very best - it's going to be be epic! (oh, and slow down some more!)

Just a quick question as I notice you suggest avoiding PB attempts or too much hard running. How do you suggest pacing the race series events?

skyblue46 · 25-06-2017 07:41PM

Wubble Wubble wrote: »

3, 2, 1....GO!

And we're off! The official start of the 18 week plans is finally upon us

Week 1

Schedules for Week 1 are:

HHN1: 3m easy + 3m easy + 3m easy + 6m LSR + cross
Boards: 3m easy + 4m PMP (with 5 x 100m strides) + 3m easy + 8m LSR + 2m rec.

What do you suggest for someone who is slightly ahead of the plan? Maintain distances until plan catches up or plough ahead and get more long runs later in the plan? My week was Sat Irish Runner 5m, Sunday 5k recovery, Monday rest, Tuesday 6.5k tempo, Wed 10k easy, Thursday 5k easy, Friday rest, Sat 5k easy, Sunday 17k LSR

kin9pin · 25-06-2017 08:05PM

Wubble Wubble wrote: »

Ah yeah the old miles vs. kms debate Some time back on this thread, another poster brought it up. No right or wrong answer here I'm afraid. Whatever works best for you I suppose, although for training runs I'm generally a miles man. Yes to the part I've emphasised

No right or wrong answer, but of course we can all agree miles are less wrong

The Black Oil · 25-06-2017 08:22PM

skyblue46 wrote: »

Just a quick question as I notice you suggest avoiding PB attempts or too much hard running. How do you suggest pacing the race series events?

The FD10 was my only pre-DCM race last year. iirc, in nop-speak, we had permission to 'give it a right lash'. Saying that, I'll leave it to your mentor to give proper advice compared to that of my own memory.

leesider77 · 25-06-2017 08:32PM

Last week of pre-training. Had an unusual niggle in my hip so decided to forego a mid week run to make sure I was able to do the longer run. Did a lot of walking and cycling as well this week. No yoga or strength so need to try and jig things around to fit them in.
3.2 @ 10.1 min/mi
3.1 @ 10/mi
6.2 @ 10.1/mi
Had a great longer run this weekend - felt good and excited to get started. Think 10min/mi will be in or around my marathon pace so will need to slow down these runs in future.
Good luck to us all.........

leesider77 · 25-06-2017 08:43PM

scotindublin wrote: »

WW is there a curfew on posting on the thread this year? I seem to remember Nop keeping us on a regimented schedule last year!

Sounds very serious.....my last curfew was imposed pre year 2000;)

muddypaws · 25-06-2017 09:04PM

Final week before the plan starts was just about steady running, with trying to get a PB at Park Run on Saturday.

Monday did a 10km bike ride
Tuesday 5km :7.12
Wednesday 5km run but I didn't record it
Thursday 5km @ 6.25 - a very hilly course that I will be running a lot in the plan

Friday rest
Saturday Park run - 5km in 29:26, which was a PB for that course, running with a dog, and had a poo and two drinking stops, so pleased with that, felt I put a good effort in, but it didn't kill me.
Sunday 11.5km walk in the mountains.

Rest day tomorrow, then doing my first LSR on Tuesday, as I tend to be busy on Saturdays, either with work or other events, so most of my LSRs will be midweek.

I can't wait to get started.

Kmagic · 26-06-2017 08:05AM

My weekly report.

It was my week 6 but I ran week 7 on the Higdon novice 1 plan. There's a half marathon on the 9th July, and as I've never gone more than 10 miles (my LSR 2 weeks ago) I moved the longer run to this week as a test. Based on that run(more below) I've signed up for the half, my first ever race.

Mon- 6 miles in 59.15. Warm morning run. Little niggle from new runners but went fine.

Tue- rest

Wed- 3 miles in 31:56. I got a new hydration belt and was testing it for chafing before my long run. It was also an afternoon run and very hot.

Thurs- 12? miles in 2:14:57. My gps was acting up, I'm using map my run on an old galaxy s3. Usually works fine. I'd say i was closer to 13 than 12. on my previous LSR i did 10 miles, and found the last 2 miles tough. This time doing 12 i found the last 2 miles tough. Is that normal? If all my LSRs progress similarly I'll be happy. I know my pace was slow. I was drained for the day. Used contrast bathing on my legs. I was thrilled to have covered the distance.

Fri- 20 minute cross train in the moring on exercise bike, felt looser after my bike session, really helped my legs. Left at noon for a stag.

Sat- stag party

Sun- 6.45 miles in 68:27. Felt slow but comfortable. Happy considering the lack of sleep the 2 previous nights.

Some comments/questions from my week. Hopefully others will benefit from these being answered in the future.

My hydration belt felt fine on my LSR. Carries 2 300ml bottles of water, my galaxy s3 and 2 gels. I dont know if it could take more. Felt comfortable. Will be happy to use on LSRs in future. Any rule of thumb on how much water and carbs/energy i should be taking in per mile/lenght of time?

I also started using a new pair of runners. I got 2 of the same pair, Asics gel-luminus 2. My plan is to use one pair up until 4/5 weeks before the marathon, then start breaking in the second pair so that my actual marathon ones will feel almost new with most of its cushioning still in th for the 26.2 but still be broken in. Is this a good approach? Or should i start using my marathon pair on every LSR up until the big day.

As this is my first training plan/set of races, my aim is to just try and hit consistant 10 minute miles and cover the distances. Will i suffer without doing any speed work? All my running is currently in around 10 minute mile pace, except the last few miles of my LSRs which drop to 11+ minute miles. Advice going forward?

aine_fainne · 26-06-2017 08:26AM

Super excited to get started now that I've read through everyone's posts from the last few days!! Best of luck to everyone with their training over the next 18 weeks

I will be following the Boards plan, with the added bonus of the Clontarf HM to run this Saturday

Last weeks training went fairly well, although the heat midweek was a challenge, glad it's cooled down a bit now:
Mon - 3m recovery at 11:33/mile
Tues - 5 m easy at 11:10/mile
Wed - 6 m easy at 11:16/mile
Thurs - 4 m easy at 10:25/mile
Sat - 12 m lsr at 11:16/mile
LSR on sat went well although I made the mistake of not putting suncream on my arms and got burnt. Felt a lot more tired afterwards this week compared to last week, and I don't think the sunburn helped either, so I won't be making that mistake again

Just one question about this weeks plan, I'm sure it's been asked before but can't seem to find it in the thread. What exactly are the 5 x 100 m strides? Have never done them before so not sure what pace to run these at or how much recovery time to leave between each one...

The Muppet · 26-06-2017 11:17AM

The best of luck to everyone starting out on one of the plans this week, "ENJOY" it's all so worth it.

aine_fainne wrote: »

What exactly are the 5 x 100 m strides? Have never done them before so not sure what pace to run these at or how much recovery time to leave between each one...

Strides are just faster running not flat out though , so 5 x 100m strides means run faster for 100 meters , slow down to recover your breath and then go again , repeat 5 times. You could use lamp posts as start and finish markers for these usually 3 lamp posts will be around 100 meters in a build up area but this varies of course.

choons · 26-06-2017 12:44PM

Hi folks, looking for some last minute advice!

My original plan did not include the race series and had midweek LSRs so that I could continue parkrun. I get the sense that the race series is worth doing so I've signed up. This has messed with my plan as I would be doing races on the weekend which is close to mid week LSRs.

Question is, should I reluctantly park parkrun to make the most of DCM?

If so, new plan would be HHN1 with some additional bits because I'm feeling ambitious. Week 1 - Good luck!!

muddypaws · 26-06-2017 12:53PM

choons wrote: »

Hi folks, looking for some last minute advice!

My original plan did not include the race series and had midweek LSRs so that I could continue parkrun. I get the sense that the race series is worth doing so I've signed up. This has messed with my plan as I would be doing races on the weekend which is close to mid week LSRs.

Question is, should I reluctantly park parkrun to make the most of DCM?

If so, new plan would be HHN1 with some additional bits because I'm feeling ambitious. Week 1 - Good luck!!

How about incorporating park run into your Lsrs on a Saturday? A lot of people do, either finish it with park run or do park run, get your barcode scanned and carry on. You won't get a pb but might help alleviate the monotony once the lsrs get longer

choons · 26-06-2017 01:00PM

muddypaws wrote: »

How about incorporating park run into your Lsrs on a Saturday? A lot of people do, either finish it with park run or do park run, get your barcode scanned and carry on. You won't get a pb but might help alleviate the monotony once the lsrs get longer

I might give this a try muddypaws but my worry is that I'd get caught up and run too fast. Do you know if this has worked for others?

muddypaws · 26-06-2017 01:10PM

choons wrote: »

I might give this a try muddypaws but my worry is that I'd get caught up and run too fast. Do you know if this has worked for others?

Yeah, I think it's a fairly common way to do it. It might be good practice for you not to start the DCM too fast as well? By that stage you'll be used to sticking to a plan and not letting the excitement get to you. Speed isn't an issue for me, I am a plodder

DCM 2017 Mentored Novices Thread

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