Doctor Who Season 10 [ Spoilers ]

Doctor DooM · 25-06-2017 02:06PM

Angron wrote: »

So, few thoughts. I really enjoyed that episode, it felt really well put together and I hope the second part follows through on that and we don't wind up with a limp ending.
I'd forgotten how creepy the Mondasian Cybermen voice was, gave them a certain charm. I do wish the Simm Master didn't have the bit of a beard, it feels a bit "stereotypical evil villain", but I still loved his incarnation so I'm happy he's back, even if it is just for one story.

The beard I took as a reference to Delgado's Master, who also had a greying beard. The Master is THE stereotypical evil villain

That was a great episode but the viewing experience was wrecked by the BBC's choices in marketing this year.

The Master · 25-06-2017 02:14PM

Beards are cool

FunLover18 · 25-06-2017 02:23PM

It was a bit silly that he had a beard under his fake beard though.

Angron · 25-06-2017 02:41PM

Doctor DooM wrote: »

The beard I took as a reference to Delgado's Master, who also had a greying beard. The Master is THE stereotypical evil villain

That was a great episode but the viewing experience was wrecked by the BBC's choices in marketing this year.

Yeah, fair point, I hadn't even thought of that as a reference.

Agent Coulson · 25-06-2017 05:52PM

I really thought for a second at the start when we saw what looks like a ReGeneration that they were going to throw an amazing curveball and have Simm be the new Doctor.

pixelburp · 25-06-2017 08:19PM

How awesome would that have been, had any of those reveals remained unspoiled by the BBC?

Even so, that was still a rollicking episode, tempered only by the fact that the second part may yet undo all that fabulous tension and drama. If it does manage to maintain those heights, then this could yet be the strongest swan-song for any of the new Doctors.

Regardless of how the finale pans out, I think we may have finally got

a fitting & suitably horrific origin story for the Cyberman; some elements, particularly the vistas of that smoking, ruined & nostalgic world, echoed the Big Finish story 'Spare Parts'.

Obviously there's only so much you can do with a tea-time TV show, but I was genuinely taken aback how far they pushed the violence (with that smoking hole in Bill's chest), as well as the truly creepy imagery: were such a category present in the TV Awards forum, I'd nominate those scenes in the hospital ward as the creepiest in TV all year. That moment with the volume button alone was a beautifully struck balance of horror and pathos. And while I was sceptical how well those cloth & surgical glove Cybermen might work, in the context of the horror they're born from, they were positively terrifying. To the extent that those newer, more robotised versions feel even less effective..

Virtanen · 25-06-2017 08:39PM

Big reveal of the Cybermen, big reveal of the Master, and an ally who is apparently dead and converted to a Cyberman

Basically the Series 8 finale, then

ixoy · 25-06-2017 08:48PM

Excellent tension and I always though the Mondassian cybermen were scarier. I'm assuming Bill is okay as we've already had a companion kind of shoved into a foe (Dalek Clara).

Like others say, let's hope the pay off is worth it including the regeneration.

As an aside, Mondas is the name of one of my Chromecasts

pixelburp wrote: »

How awesome would that have been, had any of those reveals remained unspoiled by the BBC?

Or this thread, which is where I got spoilt for the Simms Master return

If nothing else, I didn't cop on until near the end that he had been there all along.

CramCycle · 25-06-2017 10:39PM

ixoy wrote: »

Or this thread, which is where I got spoilt for the Simms Master return If nothing else, I didn't cop on until near the end that he had been there all along.

I hadn't picked out where, I actually thought it was someone else. Even when the speech started,

I really though he was the assistant to Simms who would be the Doctor/Surgeon.

CastorTroy · 25-06-2017 10:53PM

Great episode. They had spoiled 2 of the reveals from the final 5 minutes. The only thing they hadn't spoiled was Bill's part in the episode.

The whole thing with Black Holes and time just made me think of SG1. Though I'm sure if anyone thought about it too much, by the time the Doctor would've got down there it would be years at least.

I definitely chose not to watch if there was a trailer at the end this time

Daledge · 25-06-2017 10:54PM

Echoing what's been said by others, great episode, ruined by the BBC's choice of marketing.

CramCycle · 25-06-2017 11:32PM

Daledge wrote: »

Echoing what's been said by others, great episode, ruined by the BBC's choice of marketing.

I wouldn't have minded if some of it was a misdirect, as in, we said this but it is not actually what you think. I have an idea of the backbone of the next episode with a few variations, I really just hope I am wrong.

Missy is pretending, the master cannot know her thoughts and changes (if they were real), she just knew that she has to play along (or has some BS excuse about needing to let the doctor win to allow future events work out)
Bill is not completely gone, they remove the cyberman stuff but she starts to die and the Doctor kills himself to give her some regenerating energy, she may also actually just die but die in some heroic fashion
Nardol outwits almost everyone

Have to say the bit at the beginning was quite brutal for Dr. Who.

ixoy · 25-06-2017 11:43PM

The Mondas cybermen were prominently in magazines like SFX before the season even began bloody airing. Even flicking through the magazine, you'd see it. Seriously, no other show does this, detailing the contents of the entire season before it airs!

I've unsubscribed from the Doctor Who Facebook page and never watch the trailers. Now just need to be careful around certain sci-fi sights (like io9) and hope people on forums like this make liberal use of spoiler space and assume people know nothing. I am not hopeful overall though!

CastorTroy · 26-06-2017 12:15AM

The bit with Bill talking to the Doctor at the end reminded me of Fullmetal Alchemsist with

the Chimera

And anyone else have the Red Dwarf music going through their heads when the camera was panning along the ship at the beginning? Was kind of disappointed no one was out painting

Daledge · 26-06-2017 09:24AM

CramCycle wrote: »

I wouldn't have minded if some of it was a misdirect, as in, we said this but it is not actually what you think. I have an idea of the backbone of the next episode with a few variations, I really just hope I am wrong.
Missy is pretending, the master cannot know her thoughts and changes (if they were real), she just knew that she has to play along (or has some BS excuse about needing to let the doctor win to allow future events work out)
Bill is not completely gone, they remove the cyberman stuff but she starts to die and the Doctor kills himself to give her some regenerating energy, she may also actually just die but die in some heroic fashion
Nardol outwits almost everyone

Have to say the bit at the beginning was quite brutal for Dr. Who.

My point was though, imagine if we didn't know that

the Master was going to appear at the very end!

It just didn't have the surprise factor that could have made it so much better. We shouldn't have known it was coming.

CramCycle · 26-06-2017 11:03AM

Daledge wrote: »

My point was though, imagine if we didn't know that
the Master was going to appear at the very end!
It just didn't have the surprise factor that could have made it so much better. We shouldn't have known it was coming.

100% agree, it would have been epic. Best I was hoping for was that it was some sort of complete and utter misdirect but alas no,

once the voice started to change, that was that. Great actor and the comedy parts were phenomenal. There is potential for something there, as Simms does not know the future here. He knows that he makes it out OK (hence Missy)

The only question now is, Good Tea or Bad Tea?

Rigor Mortis · 26-06-2017 01:42PM

That was a stupendous episode

mewso · 26-06-2017 03:19PM

Enjoyed that. I'll spoiler this bit just in case.

I haven't really been following the speculation on who will replace Capaldi but from the chat he had with Bill about gender not mattering and so on that does seem like preparing the ground for the first female Doctor.

Agent Coulson · 26-06-2017 03:25PM

I really hope they have the guts to not give us a happy ending.

Finish on a tragic ending and give whoever the new Doctor is some meat to chew on for the run.

Totally mad idea and pure guess on who the next Doctor might be.....

.........Bill..........

pixelburp · 26-06-2017 03:52PM

Agent Coulson wrote: »

I really hope they have the guts to not give us a happy ending.

Finish on a tragic ending and give whoever the new Doctor is some meat to chew on for the run.

Hmm, I dunno; we've already had the angst-ridden Doctor, do we need to go back to that well so soon after the whole 'Lonely God' angle?

Agent Coulson wrote: »

Totally mad idea and pure guess on who the next Doctor might be.....
.........Bill..........

That idea doesn't feel that mad: it was hinted in Capaldi's own run that

his appearances have meant to be some sort of reminder; if the Doctor was to become Bill,
it'd be a big reminder of his failure...

mewso wrote: »

Enjoyed that. I'll spoiler this bit just in case.
I haven't really been following the speculation on who will replace Capaldi but from the chat he had with Bill about gender not mattering and so on that does seem like preparing the ground for the first female Doctor.

It did feel like a fairly open wink to the audience that perhaps the new Doctor was indeed going to be female. It could have been a throwaway comment from the Doctor, but it was an engaged, full conversation within that scene.

Wibbs · 26-06-2017 05:06PM

^ god I hope not. The oft heavy handed gender politics stuff of late is bad enough as it is.

The_Valeyard · 26-06-2017 10:23PM

very good episode. Enjoyed it. But yeah, less of The gender politics and more sonic screwdrivers

pixelburp · 26-06-2017 11:19PM

With respect, we should be able to discuss the prospect, whether actual or hinted at through dialogue, of a female doctor without resorting to knee jerk labels about 'gender politics'

Personally I'd prefer the doctor to stay male - non violent male role models are few and far between - but the canon is now established and if we dealt with The Master swapping genders without the world falling apart, I'm sure we can deal with the Doctor doing the same. Besides, IIRC big finish already gave us a female Doctor, so did Comic Relief - I'm sure we'll all cope

Wibbs · 26-06-2017 11:45PM

pixelburp wrote: »

With respect, we should be able to discuss the prospect, whether actual or hinted at through dialogue, of a female doctor without resorting to knee jerk labels about 'gender politics'

"With respect" it's got nada to do with "knee jerk labels", that's your personal take on it. The fact is this has been ladled on thick and fast in this current series, oft to the point of obvious is obvious at times(don't get me started on the sexuality of ancient Rome as presented). So we should be able to discuss that too, if we chose to. Or is that off topic? It certainly isn't in the show itself. RTD had Captain Jack and he was just who he was and that was that(and a bloody gutsy move for "family watching" at the time and fair play to him), but not to the degree of obvious moralising on the matter like the current stuff. So yeah it is part of the discussion.

Personally I'd prefer the doctor to stay male - non violent male role models are few and far between

This.

Doctor DooM · 27-06-2017 06:43AM

No knee jerk reaction about gender politics?

Don't recall seeing any of you complaining about Captain Jack lads

Wibbs · 27-06-2017 08:23AM

RopeDrink wrote: »

Only thing I have a problem with is the heavy-handed/overstated approach they take with these moments. I get that it's been regarded 50/50 (the whole 'stereotypical' comment the Doctor makes about gender etc), but to me it just felt forced, as opposed to a typical 'conversation' that we're supposed to be listening in on.

Exactly.

I'm also of the mind that the Doctor is better suited to being a male character. I have no problem with the idea of a female Doctor and would gladly sit here and see how it pans out if they so choose to give that a try

IMHO it would doom the show if the Doctor became a woman. The Doc is a male character.

Doctor DooM wrote: »

No knee jerk reaction about gender politics?

Don't recall seeing any of you complaining about Captain Jack lads

TBH at the time I was well impressed that RTD ran with that. In a family viewing slot. In a new(trial at the time) run of an iconic old favourite. And more, how he ran with it. Near one liner explanation of the character by the Doc, bit of a giggled no way from Rose and then it was just accepted by the characters and the audience. And the character became a well loved one. This latest stuff is clunky and obvious and feels like bordering on agenda pushing at times. Then again I have long regarded Moffat as superior to RTD on plot, but RTD superior on people.

Yourself isit · 27-06-2017 08:28AM

The betting on the next doctor is indeed trending to a female actor. Could be misdirection.

I think it could be interesting.

pixelburp · 27-06-2017 09:42AM

Wibbs wrote: »

"With respect" it's got nada to do with "knee jerk labels", that's your personal take on it. The fact is this has been ladled on thick and fast in this current series, oft to the point of obvious is obvious at times(don't get me started on the sexuality of ancient Rome as presented). So we should be able to discuss that too, if we chose to. Or is that off topic? It certainly isn't in the show itself. RTD had Captain Jack and he was just who he was and that was that(and a bloody gutsy move for "family watching" at the time and fair play to him), but not to the degree of obvious moralising on the matter like the current stuff. So yeah it is part of the discussion.

This.

I'd forgotten about that scene with the Romans, it was a bit weird and clunky but like Bill's moment with the blue alien in 'Oxygen', it read more like a simple bit of comic subversion over Bill's sexuality / race than some agenda aimed at the audience. Clumsy, but in any case there was a small a degree of historical accuracy: the Romans loved war and sex; us modern folks probably would come off as prudes

Like I said, I'd prefer the Doctor to stay male, but no more than any other incarnation of the role the only thing that could 'doom' the show - if the Doctor became female - is either bad casting or bad scripts. If Doctor Who survived Colin Baker and Jonathan Nathan Turner, it could survive this.

I've softened on the issue because ultimately - Why not? What's to lose here: yeah it'd be a shame to lose the doc as a role model, the sky won't fall, it might add a new dynamic in a show clearly needing some new energy, the Twitter noise will dissipate if that's something people pay attention too and ultimately the new Doctor will be judged as all the others - how 'good' is this new Doctor?

Plus, it's not like the character can't be regenerated again if it all doesn't work out - the very reason we're even still talking about it ~55 years after it first aired is precisely because it's flexible enough to grow and change depending on requirements. Journalists and Twitter mouths will waffle on, but in the end the actual audience will be the judges here: and going by all the photos of little girls (and boys) in Matt Smith / David Tennant cosplay at conventions, none of us here are that audience

FunLover18 · 27-06-2017 10:47AM

pixelburp wrote: »

I've softened on the issue because ultimately - Why not? What's to lose here: yeah it'd be a shame to lose the doc as a role model, the sky won't fall, it might add a new dynamic in a show clearly needing some new energy, the Twitter noise will dissipate if that's something people pay attention too and ultimately the new Doctor will be judged as all the others - how 'good' is this new Doctor?

It's a funny situation because with any other character it would seem ridiculous and gimmicky (imagine if Eon announced they wanted to do a female Bond) but the format of the show means that it has a unique opportunity to try something like this and I think they should. You mentioned earlier that

pixelburp wrote: »

non violent male role models are few and far between

but female role models (non violent or otherwise) are even fewer, especially in sci-fi. Seeing the reaction of women and girls on social media to the Wonder Woman movie really made me realise how much it means to have role model you can relate to and how much I, as a white male, take that for granted. But I don't think I'll be losing a role model if they switch gender, there's no doubt in my mind that girls have grown up with The Doctor as a role model, because at the end of the day, The Doctor is a role model because of his actions and his morals not because of his gender or race.

will56 · 27-06-2017 10:50AM

Careful anyone reading reviews online for last Saturdays episode. The Guardian has a review up with shots from this weeks episode !

Doctor Who Season 10 [** Spoilers **]

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Doctor Who Season 10 [ Spoilers ]