American lad held captive in North Korea dies soon after release..

AudreyHepburn · 20-06-2017 08:16AM

Paddy Cow wrote: »

Don't take the bait. There was nothing wrong with what you posted. It's true that you and I didn't know this man personally but that doesn't mean that we can't feel empathy for him and his family when he lost his life over a stupid fcuking flag.

There must be something wrong for Tyrant to react the way he did.

Is it strange to use some-one's name if you don't know them? Or did I go against the forum charter in some way?

Genuinely wondering what I missed here?

Peregrinus · 20-06-2017 08:20AM

Neon_Lights wrote: »

I know the whole policemen of the world thing and the US but what will take for somebody just to take on the this fat baseless moron, I do believe he has missiles but intercontinental nuclear warheads? Hardly, the country can barely keep its electricity on and feed its people.

If he has missiles, he doesn't need intercontinental missiles to do a lot of damage. Seoul (pop. 10 million) is just over 50km from the border with North Korea. This explains why people are reluctant to take him on.

Paddy Cow · 20-06-2017 09:00AM

AudreyHepburn wrote: »

There must be something wrong for Tyrant to react the way he did.

Is it strange to use some-one's name if you don't know them? Or did I go against the forum charter in some way?

Genuinely wondering what I missed here?

You didn't break any forum rules. All you did was say "rip otto" as the story got to you. For some people that comes across as trite, as you didn't know him personally. I don't think you were being trite. It's a really disturbing story.

AudreyHepburn · 20-06-2017 09:20AM

Paddy Cow wrote: »

You didn't break any forum rules. All you did was say "rip otto" as the story got to you. For some people that comes across as trite, as you didn't know him personally. I don't think you were being trite. It's a really disturbing story.

Since when is sympathizing and offering condolences trite?

Not getting at you Paddy, I appreciate your support. I just don't understand that mind set.

What should I have said?

Peregrinus · 20-06-2017 09:25AM

Let it go, Audrey. The only person who had any kind of problem with what you said was Tyrant, and that's Tyrant's problem, not yours.

Wanderer78 · 20-06-2017 09:27AM

Neon_Lights wrote:

I know the whole policemen of the world thing and the US but what will take for somebody just to take on the this fat baseless moron, I do believe he has missiles but intercontinental nuclear warheads? Hardly, the country can barely keep its electricity on and feed its people.

World Policemen, I think not! Noam Chomsky is right, America is one of the most dangerous countries on the planet. Very sad news about this chap, rip. I wonder will America spread 'democracy' in nk?

Galadriel · 20-06-2017 09:31AM

AudreyHepburn wrote: »

Since when is sympathizing and offering condolences trite?

Not getting at you Paddy, I appreciate your support. I just don't understand that mind set.

What should I have said?

It's annoying, you didn't mean anything wrong so I would just ignore that poster and just don't reply anymore.

Glenster · 20-06-2017 09:32AM

I know I'll think twice about stealing something from a dictatorship now.

weldoninhio · 20-06-2017 09:51AM

Neon_Lights wrote: »

I know the whole policemen of the world thing and the US but what will take for somebody just to take on the this fat baseless moron, I do believe he has missiles but intercontinental nuclear warheads? Hardly, the country can barely keep its electricity on and feed its people.

How many people died in US custody each year? Or while being taken into custody. And you think this is going to make them act against NK?? If it took something like this, they'd be in a constant state of civil war in the USA.

AudreyHepburn · 20-06-2017 09:51AM

Peregrinus wrote: »

Let it go, Audrey. The only person who had any kind of problem with what you said was Tyrant, and that's Tyrant's problem, not yours.

No need to be snotty about it but you are right at the same time.

I was just trying to make sure I hadn't done something wrong in terms of the forum rules.

Tyrant's reaction just took me aback a bit.

jcd5971 · 20-06-2017 09:58AM

AudreyHepburn wrote:

No need to be snotty about it but you are right at the same time.

He wasn't being snotty.
Your just overthinking things now

seamus · 20-06-2017 10:24AM

Maybe this might start putting an end to the lulz-tourism of college kids going to insanely dangerous countries for "the experience" without properly researching the things that could happen.

I mean, college kids get into trouble all the time. Kids on J1s end up in a jail cell every now and again for tomfoolery that would only get them a lift home in a Garda car in Ireland.

But there's a false sense of security, that the worst thing which can happen is that you end up getting sent home. No, these are properly dangerous places. Relatively innocent nonsense can land you a death penalty. These are not holiday destinations, they are bonafide no-go areas where you have no human rights when you cross the border.

I'm not victim blaming here; It is not this young man's fault that he has died. Everything about his arrest and detention was wrong.

But if nothing else his death might call halt to the softening in public opinion around the NK regime.

Paddy Cow · 20-06-2017 01:02PM

seamus wrote: »

Maybe this might start putting an end to the lulz-tourism of college kids going to insanely dangerous countries for "the experience" without properly researching the things that could happen.

I mean, college kids get into trouble all the time. Kids on J1s end up in a jail cell every now and again for tomfoolery that would only get them a lift home in a Garda car in Ireland.

But there's a false sense of security, that the worst thing which can happen is that you end up getting sent home. No, these are properly dangerous places. Relatively innocent nonsense can land you a death penalty. These are not holiday destinations, they are bonafide no-go areas where you have no human rights when you cross the border.

I'm not victim blaming here; It is not this young man's fault that he has died. Everything about his arrest and detention was wrong.

But if nothing else his death might call halt to the softening in public opinion around the NK regime.

Probably the most sensible post on this thread.

the_syco · 20-06-2017 01:43PM

the_syco wrote: »

Pretty sure there was video?

Actually, I remember now; there was video, but the quality was very bad, and not sure how they they could say it was him taking the political sign.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SzVGIAcLsf8

wil · 20-06-2017 01:59PM

AudreyHepburn wrote: »

Since when is sympathizing and offering condolences trite?

Not getting at you Paddy, I appreciate your support. I just don't understand that mind set.

What should I have said?

I wouldn't normally offer credence to any "Tyrant" but I get it. And I get the irony of my trivial commenting on it in the context of a dead young man in horrendous circumstances and his grieving family

It's the Facebook type trivialising of familiarity and erosion of emotion, the lack of any face to face contact or context that leaves the genuine boiled up with fake.
I realise that trite was far from your intention.
As far as I know his name is Otto Warmbier and not a celeb with a single name moniker or someone personally known to me that I'm on first name terms with.

Not everyone has the same opinion or tradition or social context in relation to names and how they are used. Some countries tend to very formal, some even consider using forenames as disrespectful. Others are quite the opposite.
Several of my relatives have their second name as their known name so if at say the funeral of my dad someone came up to me and offered heartfelt condolences on the death of Firstname, I'd silently think what an *** you obviously never even met him or even heard of him! but outwardly I'd smile appreciatively and forget it.
On the other hand, this is the internet, so who knows

Audrey (can I call you Audrey) I would tend to go with the full name as reported unless known otherwise or a simple

Rip

AudreyHepburn · 20-06-2017 03:08PM

wil wrote: »

I wouldn't normally offer credence to any "Tyrant" but I get it. And I get the irony of my trivial commenting on it in the context of a dead young man in horrendous circumstances and his grieving family

It's the Facebook type trivialising of familiarity and erosion of emotion, the lack of any face to face contact or context that leaves the genuine boiled up with fake.
I realise that trite was far from your intention.
As far as I know his name is Otto Warmbier and not a celeb with a single name moniker or someone personally known to me that I'm on first name terms with.

Not everyone has the same opinion or tradition or social context in relation to names and how they are used. Some countries tend to very formal, some even consider using forenames as disrespectful. Others are quite the opposite.
Several of my relatives have their second name as their known name so if at say the funeral of my dad someone came up to me and offered heartfelt condolences on the death of Firstname, I'd silently think what an *** you obviously never even met him or even heard of him! but outwardly I'd smile appreciatively and forget it.
On the other hand, this is the internet, so who knows

Audrey (can I call you Audrey) I would tend to go with the full name as reported unless known otherwise or a simple

Rip

Fair enough, I didn't mean to appear trite or insensitive and I certainly wasn't trying to trivialize anything about what was done to Mr. Warmbier (is that acceptable?).

Sincerest apologies if it comes across that way, I really didn't mean anger or upset anyone.

I didn't occur to me it would be that big of problem to use his name.

The_Kew_Tour · 20-06-2017 03:11PM

Seen a couple of "why would you go to N Korea" asked here.

For me it was a chance to view the world in a different way to the other hundreds of ways others live.

Never felt unsafe there, and once you kept wits about you, no problem there

Jim Bob Scratcher · 20-06-2017 03:13PM

Glenster wrote: »

I know I'll think twice about stealing something from a dictatorship now.

We'll all have to think twice about writing RIP on this forum from now on :pac:

20-06-2017 03:17PM

The_Kew_Tour wrote: »

Seen a couple of "why would you go to N Korea" asked here.

For me it was a chance to view the world in a different way to the other hundreds of ways others live.

Never felt unsafe there, and once you kept wits about you, no problem there

I think it's more "Why would you go to N Korea... and tool about?".

The_Kew_Tour · 20-06-2017 03:22PM

I hope so.

Cause I would advise anybody with bit of common sense and who would love to see it to go.

Amazing place just to see with your own eyes. Yes you only get to see what they want you to, but its still a unique and almost feels like you're in a different planet

20-06-2017 03:23PM

The_Kew_Tour wrote: »

I hope so.

Cause I would advise anybody with bit of common sense and who would love to see it to go.

Amazing place just to see with your own eyes. Yes you only get to see what they want you to, but its still a unique and almost feels like you're in a different planet

I would like to go but it's a bit out of my price range for the foreseeable.

conorhal · 20-06-2017 03:28PM

The_Kew_Tour wrote: »

I hope so.

Cause I would advise anybody with bit of common sense and who would love to see it to go.

Amazing place just to see with your own eyes. Yes you only get to see what they want you to, but its still a unique and almost feels like you're in a different planet

Personally, I view westerners vistiting N. Korea as on a par with the Victorians that used to pay a schilling to the prison gards to tour Bedlam and gawk at mad wretches locked up there. Sure it was 'educational' and not at all an exotic freakshow.

ForestFire · 21-06-2017 12:01AM

This story just get stranger and stranger.

In a coma for undetermined amount of time.
Returned home doctors unsure about cause
They do say no sign of any abuse
Parents accuse n. Korea of torturous detention
Dies few days later RIP
Now parents refuse autopsy

Any ideas why?

retro:electro · 21-06-2017 12:05AM

Makes so sense to decline an autopsy. Why?

21-06-2017 12:24AM

AudreyHepburn wrote: »

Fair enough, I didn't mean to appear trite or insensitive and I certainly wasn't trying to trivialize anything about what was done to Mr. Warmbier (is that acceptable?).

Sincerest apologies if it comes across that way, I really didn't mean anger or upset anyone.

I didn't occur to me it would be that big of problem to use his name.

It isn't a big problem. The only reason I passed any comment about it, perhaps crudely, is because of how engineered the whole thing is, how exaggerated is the whole response, because Otto Warmbier was a white, middle-class, christian, college-educated, frat boy; not some annoymous Yemeni or Afghan boy, with whom we never try to be on first-name terms, and whose death was just as tragic, if not moreso.

Hence my RIP Ahmed reference, even if it was in poor taste.

Ursus Horribilis · 21-06-2017 12:39AM

Are you still arguing with people in that other thread about North Korea over the "doctored" photos and that book you have?

21-06-2017 12:41AM

Ursus Horribilis wrote: »

Are you still arguing with people in that other thread about North Korea over the "doctored" photos and that book you have?

No. I got the same question so many times I was practically ctrl+v'ing the answer and then gave up answering it.

This thread is about Otto Warmbier though.

captbarnacles · 21-06-2017 12:57AM

ForestFire wrote: »

This story just get stranger and stranger.

In a coma for undetermined amount of time.
Returned home doctors unsure about cause
They do say no sign of any abuse
Parents accuse n. Korea of torturous detention
Dies few days later RIP
Now parents refuse autopsy

Any ideas why?

Jewish?

Peregrinus · 21-06-2017 05:37AM

Possibly, but I don't think Warmbier was a practising Jew, or was raised as such. He was of Jewish descent but, remember, at the time of his trial he said he was taking the poster that he was acccused of stealing as a souvenir for a friend from his church, which from newspaper reports is the Friendship United Methodist Church in Wyoming, Ohio.

Warmbier does appear to have been generally pro-Israel, politically speaking, and to have many Jewish friends and to have participated in some Jewish community activities in his university. But I haven't seen any suggestion that either he or his family are Jewish by practice. And of course the decision not to have an autopsy would have been made by Warmbier's parents, not by Warmbier himself.

I think his parents' decision not to have an autopsy can probably be explained by emotional considerations. It's a terrible thing to lose a child - that's not how we feel that the world should be - and all they got back of their son before he died was his body, not his mind. Nothing would now be served by a gross mutilation of his body, which is what an autopsy would require, and maybe they just couldn't face seeing that happen.

Canis Lupus · 21-06-2017 06:18AM

I wouldn't go to N Korea because my tourist dollars would be going to effectively help prop up a dictatorship. No amount of awesome facebook photos is worth that.

American lad held captive in North Korea dies soon after release..

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