Advertisement
If you have a new account but are having problems posting or verifying your account, please email us on hello@boards.ie for help. Thanks :)
Hello all! Please ensure that you are posting a new thread or question in the appropriate forum. The Feedback forum is overwhelmed with questions that are having to be moved elsewhere. If you need help to verify your account contact hello@boards.ie
Hi there,
There is an issue with role permissions that is being worked on at the moment.
If you are having trouble with access or permissions on regional forums please post here to get access: https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058365403/you-do-not-have-permission-for-that#latest

Does there have to be a sign for clamping

  • 07-06-2017 8:34pm
    #1
    Registered Users Posts: 696 ✭✭✭


    I got clamped in my underground car park in my apartment. There are no signs (or if there are they are extremely extremely discrete and not visible driving into block or underground garage).

    My question is, does there have to be adequate visible notice that there is clamping in operation?

    p.s. There is no mention of clamping on the house rules of the apartment block.


Comments

  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,021 ✭✭✭lifeandtimes


    fungie wrote: »
    I got clamped in my underground car park in my apartment. There are no signs (or if there are they are extremely extremely discrete and not visible driving into block or underground garage).

    My question is, does there have to be adequate visible notice that there is clamping in operation?

    p.s. There is no mention of clamping on the house rules of the apartment block.

    Yes there does. I can't remember the wording but my Mrs got a clamp refunded after she argued that the sign which stated there was clamping in the area was to small to see and also far away from where she had parked to have seen it, especially at night and in the rain when she was clamped. She provided photo evidence and everything. Quite proud of herself and so was I.

    So yeah check the area if there isn't adiquete signage etc you can appeal it with evidence and see what happens


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,760 ✭✭✭Effects


    What are the grounds on which you were clamped?
    I've been clamped by NCPS in my own numbered space before for it being a commercial vehicle. I paid fine and had it refunded on appeal.
    Another time I was given incorrect advice over the phone after someone else parked in my spot. They guided me to an incorrect visitor parking spot and I was clamped. I paid but they never refunded me despite appealing.
    Mod. Deletion. Suggesting illegal act.


  • Registered Users Posts: 696 ✭✭✭fungie


    update:

    I eventually found a clamping sign but its hidden away in an area that is isolated (not in underground car park where was clamped) and only mentions a disabled spot, picture attached.

    I appealed to ncps and they rejected it (it took less than a day). They cited that:

    "There are public display notices erected in this car park informing motorists that no unauthorised or illegally parked vehicles and that immobilisation is in operation."

    This is an incorrect statement and I can prove this easily by both video and pictures. I dont know what I can do though, Mod deletion(Possible defamatory statement)


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,587 ✭✭✭FishOnABike


    fungie wrote: »
    update:

    I eventually found a clamping sign but its hidden away in an area that is isolated (not in underground car park where was clamped) and only mentions a disabled spot, picture attached.

    I appealed to ncps and they rejected it (it took less than a day). They cited that:

    "There are public display notices erected in this car park informing motorists that no unauthorised or illegally parked vehicles and that immobilisation is in operation."

    This is an incorrect statement and I can prove this easily by both video and pictures. I dont know what I can do though, (Mod deletion)

    A case for the small claims court ?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,021 ✭✭✭lifeandtimes


    fungie wrote: »
    update:

    I eventually found a clamping sign but its hidden away in an area that is isolated (not in underground car park where was clamped) and only mentions a disabled spot, picture attached.

    I appealed to ncps and they rejected it (it took less than a day). They cited that:

    "There are public display notices erected in this car park informing motorists that no unauthorised or illegally parked vehicles and that immobilisation is in operation."

    This is an incorrect statement and I can prove this easily by both video and pictures. I dont know what I can do though

    If you can't see it from where you parked your car and your writing is small you should have a case forms further appeal but small claims may be better if you've already exhausted that avenue


  • Advertisement
  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,922 ✭✭✭GM228


    A case for the small claims court ?
    small claims may be better

    The Small Claims Procedure will not deal with any clamping related issues.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,205 ✭✭✭cruizer101


    If NCPS are clamping in your apartment block that means the management company hired them in, so I think that is the route you need to go to find out more, under what basis were they contracted etc.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 21,730 ✭✭✭✭Fred Swanson


    This post has been deleted.


  • Registered Users Posts: 696 ✭✭✭fungie


    This post has been deleted.

    What do you mean?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,021 ✭✭✭lifeandtimes


    fungie wrote: »
    What do you mean?

    Not one who is educated in this matter but to take stab in the dark. The sign says unauthorised parkers will be clamped or issued with a fine. In your situation you were not given the option of either and only issued with a clamp.

    Maybe fred can shed more light on it


  • Advertisement
  • Closed Accounts Posts: 21,730 ✭✭✭✭Fred Swanson


    This post has been deleted.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,021 ✭✭✭lifeandtimes


    The sign says "Parking for disabled badge holders only".

    Therefore it offers parking to that class of drivers only. There is no offer to non disabled badge holders. So there is no contract with them, so you can't charge them a contractual sum. The only remedy is to sue for trespass for a nominal sum of damages.

    We then get into the realm of penalties. Dunlop Pneumatic Tyre Co Ltd v New Garage & Motor Co Ltd is the leading authority there.
    The sign clearly states it is a penalty and I doubt the courts would fail to follow Dunlop if it was ever tested.

    Ah so because they only cater for disabled drivers and do not offer non disabled anywhere to park they in turn shoot themselves the same way a car park may offer parking without a disabled drivers parking spot ?

    I.e. this area is for disabled drivers only and we don't cater for able drivers or have anywhere for them to park so if you park here it's technically trespassing as they have left you no other choice?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 21,730 ✭✭✭✭Fred Swanson


    This post has been deleted.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,124 ✭✭✭by8auj6csd3ioq


    But it gives a warning to unauthorised they will be clamped. Woudn't unauthorised be anyone who does not have the parking badge?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,511 ✭✭✭Heisenberg1


    OP if your not happy with the outcome of the appeal you can make an appeal to a clamping appeal officer in the NTA as per the vehicle clamping act 2015.


    http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/eli/2015/act/13/section/22/enacted/en/html#sec22


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 21,730 ✭✭✭✭Fred Swanson


    This post has been deleted.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,511 ✭✭✭Heisenberg1


    Which has not been commenced yet.

    Is it not inforce since the 1st June ??


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 40,573 ✭✭✭✭ohnonotgmail


    Is it not inforce since the 1st June ??


    not according to the link.

    http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/eli/isbc/2015_13.html


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,511 ✭✭✭Heisenberg1




  • Closed Accounts Posts: 21,730 ✭✭✭✭Fred Swanson


    This post has been deleted.


  • Advertisement
  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 40,573 ✭✭✭✭ohnonotgmail


    This post has been deleted.


    oddly enough they dont seem to be wrong. SI 211 of 2017 commences part of the act in June and other parts in October. the section related to clamping and signage was commenced on June 1st.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 21,730 ✭✭✭✭Fred Swanson


    This post has been deleted.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 40,573 ✭✭✭✭ohnonotgmail


    irishstatutebook.ie seems to be a couple of weeks behind.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 358 ✭✭delboythedub


    They need a permit from local council to place clamps on cars in your underground carpark or any other place , pubs , shops etc. A Rathdown Dunlaoire C.C employee told me so. And you can ask to see the current permit. Go for it.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 21,730 ✭✭✭✭Fred Swanson


    This post has been deleted.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,922 ✭✭✭GM228


    OP if your not happy with the outcome of the appeal you can make an appeal to a clamping appeal officer in the NTA as per the vehicle clamping act 2015.


    http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/eli/2015/act/13/section/22/enacted/en/html#sec22

    S22 is not due to commence until October. Until then the Vehicle Clampin Act 2015 (Commencement) Order 2017 has commenced Part 1 and some of Part 2 of the Act in order to allow the NTA amongst other things to produce draft regulations for public consultation.


    the section related to clamping and signage was commenced on June 1st.

    Only the parts which allow the NTA make regulations and none have been made yet, they are to produce draft regulations soon for public consultation.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 40,573 ✭✭✭✭ohnonotgmail


    This post has been deleted.

    Whats that skippy, they didnt have clear signage displayed? Strewth.

    Sorry. *


    *not really.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,922 ✭✭✭GM228


    GM228 wrote: »
    Only the parts which allow the NTA make regulations and none have been made yet, they are to produce draft regulations soon for public consultation.

    Forgot to post this, but for anyone interested the draft regulations are available for viewing.

    There's still a few days to submit any feedback on them to the NTA here.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 21,730 ✭✭✭✭Fred Swanson


    This post has been deleted.


  • Advertisement
  • Administrators, Entertainment Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 18,759 Admin ✭✭✭✭✭hullaballoo


    I would question whether such "regulations" can be brought in by way of SI.

    I would also question the constitutionality of the procedures the SI purports to establish.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,344 ✭✭✭NUTLEY BOY


    I would come at this on the basis that you cannot be fixed with knowledge of a term or condition that has not been communicated to you before you form the contract or enter the car park or that otherwise gives you an opportunity to be able to take the necessary decision to avoid the liability.

    Look at Thornton -v- Shoe Lane Parking (1970). Link http://www.bailii.org/ew/cases/EWCA/Civ/1970/2.html

    Although Thornton related to an issue about contract terms excluding liability the principle is relevant. In Thornton, the plaintiff entered a car park through a barrier system that dispensed a ticket with the usual reference to terms and conditions. The sign excluding liability was on display inside the car park and could not be seen until after the plaintiff had entered. Therefore, he had no opportunity to accept or reject the condition.

    So, in this case how can the OP be held liable for a breach of terms and conditions not communicated to him ?


Advertisement