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Farmyard manure versus slurry

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Comments

  • #32
    Robson99
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,733 ✭✭✭Robson99


    Both straw and slats with mats here. Finishing heifers from Dec to March.
    Much easier finish on the straw bed. And once you have a Good build up after a month or so its not hard keep them. If it was me id go straw bed. Far less outlay compared to slated shed and you can used the shed for various purposes if you change systems down the line


  • #33
    Bass Reeves
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20,506 ✭✭✭✭Bass Reeves


    Cathal you say you are from Mayo. Straw bedded shed is not an option. At its cheapest straw will cost 16 euro/ bale in Mayo but it will generally cost 20+/ bale. You also have a longer than average winter in Mayo compared to the east coast. Big difference straw bedding sheds for 15-18 weeks at 8 -12/ bales compared to a 20+ week winter and paying 16-22/ bale.

    Cattle may thrive better on a straw bed but long-term extra cost aside from work makes it uneconomical. It is not just the straw cost you also have to factor in extra shed cost because of extra floor area required/ head for a straw bedded area compared to slats. This will add 50% to your shed cost. Add in a roofer dungsted and you be not far off the cost of a slatted unit for the same number before of cattle. Extra cost is not just in straw spreading cost will be 40-50% above slurry cost. While you will have extra P&K you will pay well for it.

    Straw is an option I tillage area's at present but the economics are changing as straw is required for energy production just like wood chip shock is becoming uneconomical for pads. I would bite the bullet and build a slatted unit in the long-term they are the cheapest housing system .

    Slava Ukrainii



  • #34
    cacs
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 832 ✭✭✭cacs


    Bass Reeves wrote: »
    Cathal you say you are from Mayo. Straw bedded shed is not an option. At its cheapest straw will cost 16 euro/ bale in Mayo but it will generally cost 20+/ bale. You also have a longer than average winter in Mayo compared to the east coast. Big difference straw bedding sheds for 15-18 weeks at 8 -12/ bales compared to a 20+ week winter and paying 16-22/ bale.

    Cattle may thrive better on a straw bed but long-term extra cost aside from work makes it uneconomical. It is not just the straw cost you also have to factor in extra shed cost because of extra floor area required/ head for a straw bedded area compared to slats. This will add 50% to your shed cost. Add in a roofer dungsted and you be not far off the cost of a slatted unit for the same number before of cattle. Extra cost is not just in straw spreading cost will be 40-50% above slurry cost. While you will have extra P&K you will pay well for it.

    Straw is an option I tillage area's at present but the economics are changing as straw is required for energy production just like wood chip shock is becoming uneconomical for pads. I would bite the bullet and build a slatted unit in the long-term they are the cheapest housing system .
    Everything you said is true


  • #35
    mf240
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,893 ✭✭✭mf240


    Unless you could stick on a cheap leantoo onto the back of an existing shed and use it as a lie back and feed on slats then it might make sense.

    It's good for land but then so would a few pallets of 18/6/12 for the same money


  • #36
    Markcheese
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,936 ✭✭✭Markcheese


    I don't think many lads price in their soils condition... Higher humus levels leave the soil better able to hold nutrients, more drought resistant, less likely to be water logged..

    Slava ukraini 🇺🇦



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  • #37
    Bass Reeves
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20,506 ✭✭✭✭Bass Reeves


    Markcheese wrote: »
    I don't think many lads price in their soils condition... Higher humus levels leave the soil better able to hold nutrients, more drought resistant, less likely to be water logged..

    You have to work on what is economically viable as well. There is no doubt that FYM is great for land. However cost is huge. Assume a round bale/ week for 15 cattle over minimum 15 weeks in wexford at 10-12euro/ bale or 10-12 euro/head. Now based in Mayo same straw at 18-20/bale for 20 weeks or 36-40/head. In wexford allow for shed to be cleaned out once during the winter and again at turn out and FYM spread costing 2-3/ head. In Mayo shed cleaned out twice and again at turn out and FYM spread on wetter land maybe 5-6/head.

    Total cost in Wexford is 13-15/head in Mayo 41-46 euro/ head. At 45/ head on 30 cattle it is costing 1350 euro. That would buy about 4 ton of 0-7-30 or 18-6-12. The economics of straw bedded sheds is not an options in non tillage area's . The extra cost in housing and dungsted will nearly pay for slatted unit before adding the straw

    Slava Ukrainii



  • #38
    blue5000
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 12,872 Mod ✭✭✭✭blue5000


    Bass Reeves wrote: »
    You have to work on what is economically viable as well. There is no doubt that FYM is great for land. However cost is huge. Assume a round bale/ week for 15 cattle over minimum 15 weeks in wexford at 10-12euro/ bale or 10-12 euro/head. Now based in Mayo same straw at 18-20/bale for 20 weeks or 36-40/head. In wexford allow for shed to be cleaned out once during the winter and again at turn out and FYM spread costing 2-3/ head. In Mayo shed cleaned out twice and again at turn out and FYM spread on wetter land maybe 5-6/head.

    Total cost in Wexford is 13-15/head in Mayo 41-46 euro/ head. At 45/ head on 30 cattle it is costing 1350 euro. That would buy about 4 ton of 0-7-30 or 18-6-12. The economics of straw bedded sheds is not an options in non tillage area's . The extra cost in housing and dungsted will nearly pay for slatted unit before adding the straw

    I agree with you but there are a couple of other benefits with straw.
    1)There is a possible extra LWG of 0.2kg/hd/day on straw vs slats.

    With 15 cattle for 15 weeks that equates to €630 @€;2/kg.

    2) Less lameness on finishing cattle. Now I know mats on slats will give similar benefits, but they aren't cheap.

    If the seat's wet, sit on yer hat, a cool head is better than a wet ar5e.



  • #39
    Bass Reeves
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20,506 ✭✭✭✭Bass Reeves


    blue5000 wrote: »
    I agree with you but there are a couple of other benefits with straw.
    1)There is a possible extra LWG of 0.2kg/hd/day on straw vs slats.

    With 15 cattle for 15 weeks that equates to €630 @€;2/kg.

    2) Less lameness on finishing cattle. Now I know mats on slats will give similar benefits, but they aren't cheap.

    Mats area one off cost and are grant aided. I did them about 6-7 years ago and thery cost 600/pen after grant and vat if I remember right or about the cost of one years straw for a pen of cattle.

    Slava Ukrainii



  • #40
    Muckit
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,173 ✭✭✭✭Muckit


    I don't think the grant is available anymore, which is a pity


  • #41
    MfMan
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,608 ✭✭✭MfMan


    How does mulch compare as bedding to straw? Would it add as much humus as straw bedding when spread as dung (unlikely) and would it make land weedy? Is it comparable in comfort to straw?


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  • #42
    Cattlepen
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 791 ✭✭✭Cattlepen


    Just speaking from my own experience, but I would never put in slat again except maybe for a feed passage. No comparison in the benefit to the land because your buying in fertiliser that is doing two jobs and the stock are delighted on straw.
    I can see slats being a problem on animal welfare grounds in the future. Not saying I agree with this but I can see it coming. U know the way regs can go


  • #43
    yosemitesam1
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,096 ✭✭✭yosemitesam1


    MfMan wrote: »
    How does mulch compare as bedding to straw? Would it add as much humus as straw bedding when spread as dung (unlikely) and would it make land weedy? Is it comparable in comfort to straw?

    What's mulch? Is it wood chip? If so it's good stuff when spread but does need to sit a year or two longer and preferably be turned


  • #44
    whelan2
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 30,821 ✭✭✭✭whelan2


    GrasstoMilk wrote: »
    Dairy cows here and All straw bedding.
    Super stuff for land but it is a pain bedding all winter long.
    Saying that though I don't see myself moving from it. Scrapped or slatted passages are a must. Hopefully will have a straw lower fir this coming winter. Used 600 bales last winter.
    The land we farm still wouldn't be producing the amount of grass it does with out all the dung
    How long do leave before spreading it and do you have to clean out the sheds often in the winter?


  • #45
    Buford T. Justice XIX
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,633 ✭✭✭✭Buford T. Justice XIX


    yosemitesam1 wrote: »
    What's mulch? Is it wood chip? If so it's good stuff when spread but does need to sit a year or two longer and preferably be turned
    Can it be spread on land used for reseeding? Land sprayed off and woodchip spread and power harrowed in or would it have to be ploughed in?


  • #46
    yosemitesam1
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,096 ✭✭✭yosemitesam1


    Buford T. Justice V wrote: »
    Can it be spread on land used for reseeding? Land sprayed off and woodchip spread and power harrowed in or would it have to be ploughed in?

    You'd want it very well rotted first, then do whatever suits

    Edit, assumed it was wood chip you were asking about


  • #47
    Buford T. Justice XIX
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,633 ✭✭✭✭Buford T. Justice XIX


    yosemitesam1 wrote: »
    You'd want it very well rotted first, then do whatever suits

    Edit, assumed it was wood chip you were asking about

    Yeah, woodchip. Was thinking of moving away from straw for calves next spring but wouldn't have storage to store woodchip for another winter so looking at options to use it without extra costs.


  • #48
    yosemitesam1
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,096 ✭✭✭yosemitesam1


    Buford T. Justice V wrote: »
    Yeah, woodchip. Was thinking of moving away from straw for calves next spring but wouldn't have storage to store woodchip for another winter so looking at options to use it without extra costs.

    It's not the end of the world if its not fully rotted just there'll be less of a kick out of it as there will be some tie up of nutrients in order to finish of breaking it down. If you could turn/mix it up a couple of times it probably wouldn't be that far from finished by the end of the summer.


  • #49
    Username John
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,237 ✭✭✭Username John


    yosemitesam1 wrote: »
    It's not the end of the world if its not fully rotted just there'll be less of a kick out of it as there will be some tie up of nutrients in order to finish of breaking it down. If you could turn/mix it up a couple of times it probably wouldn't be that far from finished by the end of the summer.

    Would it not take nutrients from the ground, rather than release - when it wouldn't be fully rotted?
    Or is that the scenario if twas put out very 'fresh'?


  • #50
    yosemitesam1
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,096 ✭✭✭yosemitesam1


    Username John wrote: »
    Would it not take nutrients from the ground, rather than release - when it wouldn't be fully rotted?
    Or is that the scenario if twas put out very 'fresh'?

    I don't know how fresh it would want to be to take stuff from the ground but would think with 3 or 4 months and a few turns it would be gone past that point


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