Farmyard manure versus slurry

cacs

We don't spread any farm yard manure. It's all slurry and bag fertilizer. I am thinking of building a straw bed shed instead of a slatted shed. I know it's a lot more work and we would have to buy straw. But there are a lot of disadvantages with slatted sheds and slurry aswell. How does farm yard manure compare as a fertiliser. What's your experience of straw bedded sheds

Muckit

Tell u what. Have you an old cowhouse or the corner of a dry shed u could pen in 2 cattle? Then this autumn buy a few bales of straw.

Bed them down all winter after you feed silage to all in slatted shed and you won't be long coming up with your answer!! PS cattle must remain in bedded area for entire winter. You are not allowed subcontract out the bedding to a spouse, children or other family member and absolutely no cursing is allowed during the experiment!!

cacs

Muckit wrote: »

Tell u what. Have you an old cowhouse or the corner of a dry shed u could pen in 2 cattle? Then this autumn buy a few bales of straw.

Bed them down all winter after you feed silage to all in slatted shed and you won't be long coming up with your answer!! PS cattle must remain in bedded area for entire winter. You are not allowed subcontract out the bedding to a spouse, children or other family member and absolutely no cursing is allowed during the experiment!!

If I do go that way it will be a drive through shed with a front loader

rangler1

cathal irwin wrote: »

If I do go that way it will be a drive through shed with a front loader

You'll be sick of it long before you need to clean it out,
I'd agree with muckit, it's a lot of work also need a shed for straw.
Cattle will thrive better on straw bedding
I use straw for the sheep here and it makes a great fertiliser especially if turned in the heap a few times during the year before spreading

cacs

rangler1 wrote: »

You'll be sick of it long before you need to clean it out,
I'd agree with muckit, it's a lot of work also need a shed for straw.
Cattle will thrive better on straw bedding
I use straw for the sheep here and it makes a great fertiliser especially if turned in the heap a few times during the year before spreading

You have a point. No doubt

_Brian

I agree with lads above that it's more work, good bit more work.
Your also at the mercy of straw supply.

Now, after all that I seriously believe there is nothing as good for land as dung.
I see local land that gets dung every year and honestly it is great, interesting thing is that even though one of the foelds is wet and often waterlogged it never grows rushes.

Dung over time builds good soil, where slurry is feeding the grass and not improving the soil, and in cases where excess is applied I think it damages the soil.

cacs

_Brian wrote: »

I agree with lads above that it's more work, good bit more work.
Your also at the mercy of straw supply.

Now, after all that I seriously believe there is nothing as good for land as dung.
I see local land that gets dung every year and honestly it is great, interesting thing is that even though one of the foelds is wet and often waterlogged it never grows rushes.

To be honest a big part of my thinking is of building a dry straw shed is for the manure. Slurry is very hard worms and microbes in the soil. I wouldn't go organic but I am half thinking of switching to April may calfing. Less scour antibiotics less bag manure and finish every thing instead of selling strong stores and early winter calving. Just over all less chemicals more natural farming but yes definitely more work

Username John

Where are you based Cathal - how easily available is straw in your area?

If you are close enough to a tillage area you could pick up bales for 10-13 euro every year... if you have lorry em in a good distance, the costs won't long be going up...

Would agree with _Brian 100% on the benefits of dung for the ground...

I would imagine most people would dung is very good, but you'd have to make the costs work as well...

cacs

Username John wrote: »

Where are you based Cathal - how easily available is straw in your area?

If you are close enough to a tillage area you could pick up bales for 10-13 euro every year... if you have lorry em in a good distance, the costs won't long be going up...

Would agree with _Brian 100% on the benefits of dung for the ground...

I would imagine most people would dung is very good, but you'd have to make the costs work as well...

Yes straw is a problem based in mayo. It would cost around €400-600 to bring a load up

The part time boy

Am I reading this right . You have enough shed capacity in slats but u want to replace with a straw bed house ?

Or you need extra room and is thinking of a straw bed instead of new slats

If it's the former are you mad ???

cacs

The part time boy wrote: »

Am I reading this right . You have enough shed capacity in slats but u want to replace with a straw bed house ?

Or you need extra room and is thinking of a straw bed instead of new slats

If it's the former are you mad ???

No I want to build more sheds. Not enough winter housing
Thinking of putting cows on straw beds bigger pens and leave weanling etc on slatts

The part time boy

cathal irwin wrote: »

The part time boy wrote: »

Am I reading this right . You have enough shed capacity in slats but u want to replace with a straw bed house ?

Or you need extra room and is thinking of a straw bed instead of new slats

If it's the former are you mad ???

No I want to build more sheds. Not enough winter housing
Thinking of putting cows on straw beds bigger pens and leave weanling etc on slatts

Ah ok that makes more sense . There s lot of work in bedding . Did it my self years ago with wealings .

Straw went mad here last year making 30 euro a bail in the end. And we live in tillage area .

Personally I would build another slated tank. Why make more work for your self especially if your part time farming .

cacs

The part time boy wrote: »

Ah ok that makes more sense . There s lot of work in bedding . Did it my self years ago with wealings .

Straw went mad here last year making 30 euro a bail in the end. And we live in tillage area .

Personally I would build another slated tank. Why make more work for your self especially if your part time farming .

I find time is always the hardest thing. Working full time young family. You have a good point. I know I want more time at home not less

CloughCasey1

Have 4bay lie back with paasage behind barriers. Scraped once a week into dungsted. 15minute job. Straw added to it weekly and wont be cleaned out all winter.
Straw was an issue last winter as lads were asking 40 for rounds. After 2mts you only need half the straw as they have a fine matress under them. One fault i found when i was looking into it was a heap of ****e behind where they were eating hence the passage. They sh1t and piss mainly while eating so its mainly thick slurry thats scraped. It is used for storing cattle that will be finished may/june of following year. Yes, it is more work but they do be stretched out on the straw/dung as they would be in the shade on a hot summers day. Cattle thrive on straw without any extra feeding. The problem with the dung is i dont have enough of it each year. Will clean it out after second cut of silage next month. Dung is some job to condition the ground. There is 2 full days work cleaning it and another day powerwashing. Another two days, one in jan and another in march cleaning out dung sted.

Muckit

It would be easier get half rotten straw bales, roll them out in field and spread slurry over them!

blue5000

I straw bed finishing bulls. There is more work no doubt about it. I spread it and plough it down for kale. You'd see the black humus after it when ploughing again the following year.

Cathal I suggest put slats along the feed barrier with a straw lieback, close them into the passage to bed it or muck it out. Cows/heifers will need more straw than finishing bulls on meal.

Try manage it so you don't have to build a dundstead as well, I use an empty silage pit if it has to be mucked out before the end of the closed period. This year I'll have my own straw, the benefit of you buying it in is that you are buying in P&K as well.

CloughCasey1

Muckit wrote: »

It would be easier get half rotten straw bales, roll them out in field and spread slurry over them!

Thats dung talk Muckit.☺

Buford T. Justice XIX

I bed young stock on straw bought in each year from just a mile away. It's great to add to soil but it's a right PITA in spring. The weanlings/incalf heifers eat on slats and lie down on the straw so the use of straw is minimal.

On the plusses, as blue said, you are buying in P&K so you can build up fertility in low index soils fairly quickly. The cattle are warm and comfortable through the winter and absolutely thrive in cold weather on straw.

On the minuses, it can get expensive especially in a bad year as good dry straw can be hard to source. It's time consuming to bed them, which isn't a problem in winter but with cows calving and other spring work, it starts getting annoying. And for me, the worst is having to get somebody in to spread it. Slurry gets agitated and spread by contractor and is handy enough to get a few loads out with my own tank. But getting FYM out here in the Autumn after closing ground is messy enough as the contractor has a big horse of a spreader which isn't the lightest on wet ground and the equivalent slurry can go out with an umbilical spreader with minimal damage.

I'm putting in cubicles for the incalf heifers this Summer to reduce the workload for now but I will still be bedding the weanlings on straw until I can get a slatted tank and house up for them.

I would agree with the lads above, slats all the way with rubber if if you are worried about their comfort but stay away from straw bedding if you're worried about your own comfort:p

kowtow

What about a straw blower?

The winter before last I told the boy to kill me with a pike, or a grape, or a dung fork, or just a gun if I ever suggested putting weanlings in on straw again. Needless to say I did it again this winter.

And then a neighbour took pity on me and sent me down his straw blower every so often. Still a terrible shed to use, bad drainage, and everything but I could see that with the right shed and layout it would be the perfect answer.

And the dung really is better, once it's looked after.

larthehar

I was in a yard one day and a fella had a straw bedded shed with a fall forward on the floor. He had slats he got for nothing sitting on top of the concrete part that he bedded.. so straw bed was on top of the slats.. the passage span had two gates either end that closed into another fixed gate.. passage was scrapped weekly.. and bed lasted a week and a half.. the bed was dirty but dry when i seen it if that makes sense!
Thought it was a good plan..
The feed barrier opened to allow cleaning out the straw covered slats.. had a temporary ramp made to mount the slats..

Muckit

Come back to us when you try it yourself!!

No debate regarding how good dung is for ground but there s no getting away from the pain in the h*le it is for half the year!

cacs

Muckit wrote: »

Come back to us when you try it yourself!!

No debate regarding how good dung is for ground but there s no getting away from the pain in the h*le it is for half the year!

Brilliant

GrasstoMilk

Dairy cows here and All straw bedding.
Super stuff for land but it is a pain bedding all winter long.
Saying that though I don't see myself moving from it. Scrapped or slatted passages are a must. Hopefully will have a straw lower fir this coming winter. Used 600 bales last winter.
The land we farm still wouldn't be producing the amount of grass it does with out all the dung

Username John

GrasstoMilk wrote: »

Dairy cows here and All straw bedding.
Super stuff for land but it is a pain bedding all winter long.
Saying that though I don't see myself moving from it. Scrapped or slatted passages are a must. Hopefully will have a straw lower fir this coming winter. Used 600 bales last winter.
The land we farm still wouldn't be producing the amount of grass it does with out all the dung

600 bales is a fair few - how big a shed do you have for storing that many?

How much shed space to store bales Cathal?

GrasstoMilk

Username John wrote: »

600 bales is a fair few - how big a shed do you have for storing that many?

How much shed space to store bales Cathal?

40x60 and a 30x45 shed

cacs

Username John wrote: »

600 bales is a fair few - how big a shed do you have for storing that many?

How much shed space to store bales Cathal?

I just have slatted houses at the minute i want to up numbers but not enough winter housing. Based on what everyone said today i think stick with slaatex shed les work more expensive to build but les time

cacs

blue5000 wrote: »

I straw bed finishing bulls. There is more work no doubt about it. I spread it and plough it down for kale. You'd see the black humus after it when ploughing again the following year.

Cathal I suggest put slats along the feed barrier with a straw lieback, close them into the passage to bed it or muck it out. Cows/heifers will need more straw than finishing bulls on meal.

Try manage it so you don't have to build a dundstead as well, I use an empty silage pit if it has to be mucked out before the end of the closed period. This year I'll have my own straw, the benefit of you buying it in is that you are buying in P&K as well.

Thanks blue

Water John

There is no comparison between slurry and manure.
A blower as Kowtow suggested. The other point is, would regs in future favour dung over slurry?
You might with straw bedding, end up ahead of the posse.

cacs

Water John wrote: »

There is no comparison between slurry and manure.
A blower as Kowtow suggested. The other point is, would regs in future favour dung over slurry?
You might with straw bedding, end up ahead of the posse.

i will have to talk to an organic famer i know. He is using both and buying straw
But your right where will it all go

Dwag

Everything is straw bedded here. Very rich land as a result with no P or K needed whatsoever.

Straw is all produced in house.
Straw chopper/blower, loader and spreaders also.

I wonder has anyone ever done a cost/ benefit on my system...basic shed plus machinery versus slurry system.
(Taking into account that a slatted shed is not a very tradable asset).

visatorro

Lads mentioned slurry been bad for worms, if spread with dribble bar and the place not poisoned surely it's alright? not too much dung here normally spread on a different field every year

Robson99

Both straw and slats with mats here. Finishing heifers from Dec to March.
Much easier finish on the straw bed. And once you have a Good build up after a month or so its not hard keep them. If it was me id go straw bed. Far less outlay compared to slated shed and you can used the shed for various purposes if you change systems down the line

Bass Reeves

Cathal you say you are from Mayo. Straw bedded shed is not an option. At its cheapest straw will cost 16 euro/ bale in Mayo but it will generally cost 20+/ bale. You also have a longer than average winter in Mayo compared to the east coast. Big difference straw bedding sheds for 15-18 weeks at 8 -12/ bales compared to a 20+ week winter and paying 16-22/ bale.

Cattle may thrive better on a straw bed but long-term extra cost aside from work makes it uneconomical. It is not just the straw cost you also have to factor in extra shed cost because of extra floor area required/ head for a straw bedded area compared to slats. This will add 50% to your shed cost. Add in a roofer dungsted and you be not far off the cost of a slatted unit for the same number before of cattle. Extra cost is not just in straw spreading cost will be 40-50% above slurry cost. While you will have extra P&K you will pay well for it.

Straw is an option I tillage area's at present but the economics are changing as straw is required for energy production just like wood chip shock is becoming uneconomical for pads. I would bite the bullet and build a slatted unit in the long-term they are the cheapest housing system .

cacs

Bass Reeves wrote: »

Cathal you say you are from Mayo. Straw bedded shed is not an option. At its cheapest straw will cost 16 euro/ bale in Mayo but it will generally cost 20+/ bale. You also have a longer than average winter in Mayo compared to the east coast. Big difference straw bedding sheds for 15-18 weeks at 8 -12/ bales compared to a 20+ week winter and paying 16-22/ bale.

Cattle may thrive better on a straw bed but long-term extra cost aside from work makes it uneconomical. It is not just the straw cost you also have to factor in extra shed cost because of extra floor area required/ head for a straw bedded area compared to slats. This will add 50% to your shed cost. Add in a roofer dungsted and you be not far off the cost of a slatted unit for the same number before of cattle. Extra cost is not just in straw spreading cost will be 40-50% above slurry cost. While you will have extra P&K you will pay well for it.

Straw is an option I tillage area's at present but the economics are changing as straw is required for energy production just like wood chip shock is becoming uneconomical for pads. I would bite the bullet and build a slatted unit in the long-term they are the cheapest housing system .

Everything you said is true

mf240

Unless you could stick on a cheap leantoo onto the back of an existing shed and use it as a lie back and feed on slats then it might make sense.

It's good for land but then so would a few pallets of 18/6/12 for the same money

Markcheese

I don't think many lads price in their soils condition... Higher humus levels leave the soil better able to hold nutrients, more drought resistant, less likely to be water logged..

Bass Reeves

Markcheese wrote: »

I don't think many lads price in their soils condition... Higher humus levels leave the soil better able to hold nutrients, more drought resistant, less likely to be water logged..

You have to work on what is economically viable as well. There is no doubt that FYM is great for land. However cost is huge. Assume a round bale/ week for 15 cattle over minimum 15 weeks in wexford at 10-12euro/ bale or 10-12 euro/head. Now based in Mayo same straw at 18-20/bale for 20 weeks or 36-40/head. In wexford allow for shed to be cleaned out once during the winter and again at turn out and FYM spread costing 2-3/ head. In Mayo shed cleaned out twice and again at turn out and FYM spread on wetter land maybe 5-6/head.

Total cost in Wexford is 13-15/head in Mayo 41-46 euro/ head. At 45/ head on 30 cattle it is costing 1350 euro. That would buy about 4 ton of 0-7-30 or 18-6-12. The economics of straw bedded sheds is not an options in non tillage area's . The extra cost in housing and dungsted will nearly pay for slatted unit before adding the straw

blue5000

Bass Reeves wrote: »

You have to work on what is economically viable as well. There is no doubt that FYM is great for land. However cost is huge. Assume a round bale/ week for 15 cattle over minimum 15 weeks in wexford at 10-12euro/ bale or 10-12 euro/head. Now based in Mayo same straw at 18-20/bale for 20 weeks or 36-40/head. In wexford allow for shed to be cleaned out once during the winter and again at turn out and FYM spread costing 2-3/ head. In Mayo shed cleaned out twice and again at turn out and FYM spread on wetter land maybe 5-6/head.

Total cost in Wexford is 13-15/head in Mayo 41-46 euro/ head. At 45/ head on 30 cattle it is costing 1350 euro. That would buy about 4 ton of 0-7-30 or 18-6-12. The economics of straw bedded sheds is not an options in non tillage area's . The extra cost in housing and dungsted will nearly pay for slatted unit before adding the straw

I agree with you but there are a couple of other benefits with straw.
1)There is a possible extra LWG of 0.2kg/hd/day on straw vs slats.

With 15 cattle for 15 weeks that equates to €630 @€;2/kg.

2) Less lameness on finishing cattle. Now I know mats on slats will give similar benefits, but they aren't cheap.

Bass Reeves

blue5000 wrote: »

I agree with you but there are a couple of other benefits with straw.
1)There is a possible extra LWG of 0.2kg/hd/day on straw vs slats.

With 15 cattle for 15 weeks that equates to €630 @€;2/kg.

2) Less lameness on finishing cattle. Now I know mats on slats will give similar benefits, but they aren't cheap.

Mats area one off cost and are grant aided. I did them about 6-7 years ago and thery cost 600/pen after grant and vat if I remember right or about the cost of one years straw for a pen of cattle.

Muckit

I don't think the grant is available anymore, which is a pity

MfMan

How does mulch compare as bedding to straw? Would it add as much humus as straw bedding when spread as dung (unlikely) and would it make land weedy? Is it comparable in comfort to straw?

Cattlepen

Just speaking from my own experience, but I would never put in slat again except maybe for a feed passage. No comparison in the benefit to the land because your buying in fertiliser that is doing two jobs and the stock are delighted on straw.
I can see slats being a problem on animal welfare grounds in the future. Not saying I agree with this but I can see it coming. U know the way regs can go

yosemitesam1

MfMan wrote: »

How does mulch compare as bedding to straw? Would it add as much humus as straw bedding when spread as dung (unlikely) and would it make land weedy? Is it comparable in comfort to straw?

What's mulch? Is it wood chip? If so it's good stuff when spread but does need to sit a year or two longer and preferably be turned

whelan2

GrasstoMilk wrote: »

Dairy cows here and All straw bedding.
Super stuff for land but it is a pain bedding all winter long.
Saying that though I don't see myself moving from it. Scrapped or slatted passages are a must. Hopefully will have a straw lower fir this coming winter. Used 600 bales last winter.
The land we farm still wouldn't be producing the amount of grass it does with out all the dung

How long do leave before spreading it and do you have to clean out the sheds often in the winter?

Buford T. Justice XIX

yosemitesam1 wrote: »

What's mulch? Is it wood chip? If so it's good stuff when spread but does need to sit a year or two longer and preferably be turned

Can it be spread on land used for reseeding? Land sprayed off and woodchip spread and power harrowed in or would it have to be ploughed in?

yosemitesam1

Buford T. Justice V wrote: »

Can it be spread on land used for reseeding? Land sprayed off and woodchip spread and power harrowed in or would it have to be ploughed in?

You'd want it very well rotted first, then do whatever suits

Edit, assumed it was wood chip you were asking about

Buford T. Justice XIX

yosemitesam1 wrote: »

You'd want it very well rotted first, then do whatever suits

Edit, assumed it was wood chip you were asking about

Yeah, woodchip. Was thinking of moving away from straw for calves next spring but wouldn't have storage to store woodchip for another winter so looking at options to use it without extra costs.

yosemitesam1

Buford T. Justice V wrote: »

Yeah, woodchip. Was thinking of moving away from straw for calves next spring but wouldn't have storage to store woodchip for another winter so looking at options to use it without extra costs.

It's not the end of the world if its not fully rotted just there'll be less of a kick out of it as there will be some tie up of nutrients in order to finish of breaking it down. If you could turn/mix it up a couple of times it probably wouldn't be that far from finished by the end of the summer.

Username John

yosemitesam1 wrote: »

It's not the end of the world if its not fully rotted just there'll be less of a kick out of it as there will be some tie up of nutrients in order to finish of breaking it down. If you could turn/mix it up a couple of times it probably wouldn't be that far from finished by the end of the summer.

Would it not take nutrients from the ground, rather than release - when it wouldn't be fully rotted?
Or is that the scenario if twas put out very 'fresh'?

yosemitesam1

Username John wrote: »

Would it not take nutrients from the ground, rather than release - when it wouldn't be fully rotted?
Or is that the scenario if twas put out very 'fresh'?

I don't know how fresh it would want to be to take stuff from the ground but would think with 3 or 4 months and a few turns it would be gone past that point