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Woman killed by two bull mastiffs in Galway

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Comments

  • #272
    steddyeddy
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 27,565 ✭✭✭✭steddyeddy


    I'm having a hard time accepting that all dog breeds have the same temperament. Of course nurture (the owner) plays a part but I would find it incredible to think that generations of breeding dogs for certain temperaments had no impact.


  • #273
    enfant terrible
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,774 ✭✭✭enfant terrible


    notjustsweet wrote: »
    Badly is the answer.
    They are banned in the UK leading to a situation where any dog who looks like it could be a pitbull is in danger regardless if it actually is.
    So called 'experts' overrule evidence from actual experts (vets, DNA evidence) and order innocent dogs to be killed.
    The law is 'pitbull type dogs" as it isn't an actual breed.

    A tall staffie can easily be mistaken for a pitbull if someone doesn't know the difference, or a cross breed of 2 dogs that happens to look that way.

    I'll take real results over your opinion
    http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=103714144&postcount=246
    steddyeddy wrote: »
    I'm having a hard time accepting that all dog breeds have the same temperament. Of course nurture (the owner) plays a part but I would find it incredible to think that generations of breeding dogs for certain temperaments had no impact.

    Who believes that sounds crazy?


  • #274
    steddyeddy
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 27,565 ✭✭✭✭steddyeddy


    enfant terrible wrote: »
    I'll take real results over your opinion
    http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=103714144&postcount=246



    Who believes that sounds crazy?

    There are people implying there is no innate difference in agression, an element of temperament in dog breeds.


  • #275
    muddypaws
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,616 ✭✭✭muddypaws


    enfant terrible wrote: »
    How do the bans work in all the places that have successfully banned pit bulls?

    There are now more pit bulls in the UK than there were before they were banned.


  • #276
    borderlinemeath
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,373 ✭✭✭borderlinemeath


    enfant terrible wrote: »
    How do the bans work in all the places that have successfully banned pit bulls?

    Keep up. I posted about the UK above. The US aren't comparable, they have different state laws, and also different county laws within state laws.

    The UK have failed as the vast majority of pit bulls seized after an incident are not on the register. The UK are just as lax with their control of dogs act and it's usually after an incident that a banned dog comes onto their radar.

    And please, would you ever stop focusing on Pit Bulls? They weren't the breed involved in this attack but they seem to be the sole focus of your crusade against powerful dogs in the wrong hands.


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  • #277
    Mr.H
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,861 ✭✭✭Mr.H


    borderlinemeath wrote:
    Sorry, it made me laugh when I was reading your post


    Damn auto correct on this phone haha


  • #278
    njs030
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,030 ✭✭✭njs030


    enfant terrible wrote: »
    I'll take real results over your opinion
    http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=103714144&postcount=246



    Who believes that sounds crazy?

    Your posts are about America where they are a completely different group of dogs.
    Please look up American pitbull and Irish pitbull.

    You're not interested in actual discussion, only in furthering your own point (using america to do so because we don't have the problem here!) so I'm out.


  • #279
    Dyr
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 23,246 ✭✭✭✭Dyr


    Jawgap wrote: »
    Fair enough, but the data was compiled by the CDC, so it's probably the most reliable large set data you're going to get. Data is available from the UK (and Ireland) but being smaller samples they're likely to be less representative.
    .

    From memory the ODC data up until recently was the big problem, they based the breed data on local news reports and nothing more.


  • #280
    enfant terrible
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,774 ✭✭✭enfant terrible


    borderlinemeath wrote: »
    Keep up. I posted about the UK above. The US aren't comparable, they have different state laws, and also different county laws within state laws.

    The UK have failed as the vast majority of pit bulls seized after an incident are not on the register. The UK are just as lax with their control of dogs act and it's usually after an incident that a banned dog comes onto their radar.

    And please, would you ever stop focusing on Pit Bulls? They weren't the breed involved in this attack but they seem to be the sole focus of your crusade against powerful dogs in the wrong hands.

    Myself and Samaris were discussing banning pit bulls because they are responsible for the vast majority of fatalities and how they work in the US and other places.

    You then jumped in and said they didn't work, so no you need "keep up" and read the thread.


  • #281
    Mr.H
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,861 ✭✭✭Mr.H


    Tazzimus wrote:
    Dangerous dog? Do you know my dog personally to make that statement?


    Unfortunately people like you only think they know enough about dogs. Don't be so naive. I am a huge dog person and have done loads of research. Just owning a dog doesnt make you know what your doing.

    I hope you never have to learn the hard way because immature people like you will be the first to go the opposite way when or if it happens. You'll go from defending your buddy to damning them all


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  • #282
    enfant terrible
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,774 ✭✭✭enfant terrible


    steddyeddy wrote: »
    There are people implying there is no innate difference in agression, an element of temperament in dog breeds.

    People just believe what they want to believe when it comes to their pets no matter what the evidence shows.


  • #283
    Jawgap
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,296 ✭✭✭✭Jawgap


    Bambi wrote: »
    From memory the ODC data up until recently was the big problem, they based the breed data on local news reports and nothing more.

    Actually, that was an old report they did coveting the period to 1998, which used media reports from NEXIS and data from the Humane Society of the United States (HSUS).

    Data from 2001 onwards was gathered through the National Electronic Injury Surveillance System-All Injury Program (NEISS-AIP) and specifically, in the case of one paper, from 66 NEISS hospitals selected as a stratified probability sample.


  • #284
    borderlinemeath
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,373 ✭✭✭borderlinemeath


    enfant terrible wrote: »
    Myself and Samaris were discussing banning pit bulls because they are responsible for the vast majority of fatalities and how they work in the US and other places.

    You then jumped in and said they didn't work, so no you need "keep up" and read the thread.

    Actually you were debating with me before Samaris joined the thread. Or rather you were trying:rolleyes:. Post #197 you quoted me to be precise. Post #217 is when Samaris joined the thread.

    Again. Keep up.


  • #285
    enfant terrible
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,774 ✭✭✭enfant terrible


    borderlinemeath wrote: »
    Actually you were debating with me before Samaris joined the thread. Or rather you were trying:rolleyes:. Post #197 you quoted me to be precise. Post #217 is when Samaris joined the thread.

    Again. Keep up.

    Apologies Samaris was much more engaging.


  • #286
    njs030
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,030 ✭✭✭njs030


    I read on the rte news page just now that the woman entered the house the dogs lived in when there was no one home.
    Its a horrible accident but it puts an slightly different view on things, most dogs will protect their home from what they view as an intruder.
    What an awful way to go though.

    I do think that having 2 bull mastiffs is quite irresponsible, Ive met a few of these dogs and find them lovely, affectionate and generally quote slobbery but they are stubborn and very, very strong. One is enough for anyone imo.


  • #287
    Tazzimus
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,944 ✭✭✭Tazzimus


    Mr.H wrote: »
    Unfortunately people like you only think they know enough about dogs. Don't be so naive. I am a huge dog person and have done loads of research. Just owning a dog doesnt make you know what your doing.

    I hope you never have to learn the hard way because immature people like you will be the first to go the opposite way when or if it happens. You'll go from defending your buddy to damning them all

    Far from being naive or immature pal.
    I think it was a valid question, how was the person so sure I have a dangerous dog, or have ever owned a dangerous dog?

    I know my own dogs, I cant speak for a strangers dog, but mine have been well behaved and have excellent temperament.
    If they ever did bite someone, and weren't provoked into it, I'd blame myself for making a mistake training them, not the dog.

    Is it right to tar all dogs of a certain breed with the same brush because of a few untrained/abused examples that make the news?


  • #288
    deadlybuzzman
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,874 ✭✭✭deadlybuzzman


    Here's an article that has actual numbers from Ireland from a county council source, no agendas no guff

    http://www.thejournal.ie/factcheck-thejournal-ie-dangerous-dogs-restricted-breeds-2775130-May2016/

    The then calculated what dogs were the most and least likely to bite people
    The most likely to bite:
    Papillon, Brittany spaniel, Kerry blue terrier, Newfoundland, weimaraner and Pekingese

    The least like to bite people :
    Cavalier King Charles, beagle, bichon frise, Staffordshire bull terrier, samoyed and Pyrenean mountain dog

    Also bear in mind human aggression and dog aggression are very very different


  • #289
    enfant terrible
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,774 ✭✭✭enfant terrible


    Tazzimus wrote: »
    Far from being naive or immature pal.
    I think it was a valid question, how was the person so sure I have a dangerous dog, or have ever owned a dangerous dog?

    I know my own dogs, I cant speak for a strangers dog, but mine have been well behaved and have excellent temperament.
    If they ever did bite someone, and weren't provoked into it, I'd blame myself for making a mistake training them, not the dog.

    Is it right to tar all dogs of a certain breed with the same brush because of a few untrained/abused examples that make the news?

    What's your point exactly? Do you leave your dogs with young children unsupervised or not?


  • #290
    BorneTobyWilde
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 39,367 ✭✭✭✭BorneTobyWilde


    deadlybuzzman wrote: »
    Here's an article that has actual numbers from Ireland from a county council source, no agendas no guff

    http://www.thejournal.ie/factcheck-thejournal-ie-dangerous-dogs-restricted-breeds-2775130-May2016/

    The then calculated what dogs were the most and least likely to bite people
    The most likely to bite:
    Papillon, Brittany spaniel, Kerry blue terrier, Newfoundland, weimaraner and Pekingese

    The least like to bite people :
    Cavalier King Charles, beagle, bichon frise, Staffordshire bull terrier, samoyed and Pyrenean mountain dog

    Also bear in mind human aggression and dog aggression are very very different

    SMall dogs like to act tough and bite, it's cute. I don't mind being bitten by a little dog. They could never kill me though, those stats mean nothing.


  • #291
    deadlybuzzman
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,874 ✭✭✭deadlybuzzman


    borderlinemeath wrote: »
    A ban is far harder to implement. You would have dogs seized that the owners would appeal and the dogs left in limbo (as per the current situation in the UK and NI) and it's based on an "expert" opinion as to whether the dog is suitable for release to owner to to be PTS.

    Whereas a licence and Swiss style course for a dog with varying grades - ie dogs up to 20kg, up to 30kg etc. A breed considered powerful regardless of size etc. No licence, dog seized - no comeback.

    That would be a great idea. With the best will in the world alot of well intentioned people that have dogs just don't know enough about behaviour, body language and obedience


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  • #292
    deadlybuzzman
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,874 ✭✭✭deadlybuzzman


    BorneTobyWilde wrote: »
    SMall dogs like to act tough and bite, it's cute. I don't mind being bitten by a little dog. They could never kill me though, those stats mean nothing.

    They mean alot if you're four and you get bitten in the face.


  • #293
    Discodog
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,127 ✭✭✭✭Discodog


    deadlybuzzman wrote: »
    That would be a great idea. With the best will in the world alot of well intentioned people that have dogs just don't know enough about behaviour, body language and obedience

    This is especially true in Ireland where everyone is a dog "expert". Someone appears to have trained two big dogs to guard their property & not allowed for an innocent person being killed.

    I have heard a Guard, on the radio, saying that a dog is the best burglar deterrent. Dogs should never, ever be taught to guard. You cannot put a dog into the situation where it has to decide who is friend or foe.


  • #294
    enfant terrible
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,774 ✭✭✭enfant terrible


    deadlybuzzman wrote: »
    Here's an article that has actual numbers from Ireland from a county council source, no agendas no guff

    http://www.thejournal.ie/factcheck-thejournal-ie-dangerous-dogs-restricted-breeds-2775130-May2016/

    The then calculated what dogs were the most and least likely to bite people
    The most likely to bite:
    Papillon, Brittany spaniel, Kerry blue terrier, Newfoundland, weimaraner and Pekingese

    The least like to bite people :
    Cavalier King Charles, beagle, bichon frise, Staffordshire bull terrier, samoyed and Pyrenean mountain dog

    Also bear in mind human aggression and dog aggression are very very different

    Why are they limiting all the research to Ireland when there is so little research to start with?

    Claim: Restricted dog breeds are inherently more dangerous than non-restricted dog breeds
    Verdict: Mostly False.
    No evidence to show that restricted dog breeds are physically more capable or apt than other large breeds to inflict serious damage when they do bite, although there is no scientific research either way in this specific area, and so this is potentially subject to change.

    Who believes that, a quick look at the statistics in the US would show that claim as false instantly.

    Pointless exercise


  • #295
    njs030
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,030 ✭✭✭njs030


    BorneTobyWilde wrote: »
    SMall dogs like to act tough and bite, it's cute. I don't mind being bitten by a little dog. They could never kill me though, those stats mean nothing.


    Small dogs act that way out of anger and frustration because they are badly trained by irresponsible owners.
    The owners don't bother to train them, then when they bite or become to much to handle they dump them in the pound to be killed or into rescue

    5 dogs a day are killed by pounds in this country. Is that also cute?


  • #296
    Tazzimus
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,944 ✭✭✭Tazzimus


    enfant terrible wrote: »
    What's your point exactly? Do you leave your dogs with young children unsupervised or not?

    My point, which I thought was fairly obvious, is dogs that behave like the ones in this tragic event are like this because the owners are ****ing idiots that don't deserve dogs as they don't know how to look after them/raise them.

    Not sure how much clearer I can make that.

    Those kind of owners are the reason there's a restricted breed list in the first place.


    ANY dog has the potential to be vicious, depending on their upbringing. Bigger dogs just get stigmatised because they're bigger, therefore can do more damage than, say, a Chihuahua.


  • #297
    MadDog76
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,162 ✭✭✭MadDog76


    Tazzimus wrote: »
    I'm feeling perfectly fine thanks.
    Strangers dog, fair enough I wouldn't until I knew what the dog was rared like. Any dog I've owned, not a problem. I know how the dog was raised: Around noisy people and kids all the time from a pup so they wouldn't get startled if a kid poked one or pulled on their ear etc.

    Again: It's down to the owners, not the dogs

    All well and good .......... until your dog bites a kids head off.


  • #298
    enfant terrible
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,774 ✭✭✭enfant terrible


    deadlybuzzman wrote: »
    They mean alot if you're four and you get bitten in the face.

    Yes reading the article you posted I got the impression that small dogs are the real problem in Ireland not the restricted ones.


  • #299
    enfant terrible
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,774 ✭✭✭enfant terrible


    Tazzimus wrote: »
    My point, which I thought was fairly obvious, is dogs that behave like the ones in this tragic event are like this because the owners are ****ing idiots that don't deserve dogs as they don't know how to look after them/raise them.

    Not sure how much clearer I can make that.

    Those kind of owners are the reason there's a restricted breed list in the first place.


    ANY dog has the potential to be vicious, depending on their upbringing. Bigger dogs just get stigmatised because they're bigger, therefore can do more damage than, say, a Chihuahua.

    They get stigmatized because they are responsible for mauling people to death.

    Not sure how much clearer I can make that.


  • #300
    njs030
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,030 ✭✭✭njs030


    Tazzimus wrote: »
    My point, which I thought was fairly obvious, is dogs that behave like the ones in this tragic event are like this because the owners are ****ing idiots that don't deserve dogs as they don't know how to look after them/raise them.

    Perhaps that's the case.
    Very few dogs wouldn't react to someone walking into their house when the owner wasn't home though, a highly territorial bullmastiff seems even more likely to react.

    I don't know what my dogs would do but none of my friends would chance it!
    Do you think yours would let someone in?


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  • #301
    Discodog
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,127 ✭✭✭✭Discodog


    It's not just about aggression. In this area people readily let their dogs roam. A neighbour's dog stole a childs toy on the beach whilst the owner was no where to be seen. It's normal here.

    I was at a friend's recently, not that far from where this happened. There were four dogs in her garden & she doesn't own a dog.


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