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Woman killed by two bull mastiffs in Galway

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Comments

  • #242
    Jawgap
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,296 ✭✭✭✭Jawgap


    borderlinemeath wrote: »
    You do know what a pit bull is don't you? It's a type rather than a breed, they are identified by head measurements so a staffy crossed with a lab is 99% of the time identified as a pit bull. Or a mastiff crossed with a lab is identified as a pit bull. I'd say that most of the dog wardens in this country couldn't tell the difference between a staffy and a pit bull. Or a GSD or a Belgian shepherd. Or in one particular case where a child was bitten a few years ago, the warden went on record and on live radio to say that he had seized the "husky" when it was a malamute.

    I'd reckon that maybe 6% of American owners say they own a pit bull. The rest of them are crosses that the authorities may identify as a pit bull but the owners think is a cross breed mutt.

    Yeah........

    .......still wouldn't have one in the house or want to own one.


  • #243
    steddyeddy
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 27,565 ✭✭✭✭steddyeddy


    monkeysnapper wrote: »
    Nearly 12 months to the day I was out walking my 2 westies with my 2 year old son and 2 bull massif attacked my westie and killed her.

    Owner tried and tried to get them off her and failed .

    Horrible horrible I can tell you. My heart goes out to that poor family and woman

    http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=100429492

    I hope that woman no longer has those dogs.


  • #244
    borderlinemeath
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,373 ✭✭✭borderlinemeath


    enfant terrible wrote: »
    I need to wake up the irony :D

    You think banning the breed will lead to more deaths, your delusional.

    Yes I can see your point about education, the "nefarious characters" you said will take the dogs "underground" will be well up for some education classes :D

    "Wake up" and stop letting your love of your pet cloud your judgement.

    Nearly every dog attack in the UK by a pit bull is by a dog not on the register.

    The "register" is the list of permitted pitbulls. They need to be licenced, microchipped, neutered and temperament assessed by an expert to be granted exemption onto the list.

    No other breed is subjected to extra controls in the UK such as our RB list.

    By the way I don't own an a pit bull, or an RB. I have plenty of experience handling them, particularly GSDs. But as I think the extra restrictions to owning them are unfair on the dog so I would never voluntarily get one until the laws change in their favour.


  • #245
    Dyr
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 23,246 ✭✭✭✭Dyr


    Jawgap wrote: »
    Some dog bite stats from the US......





    ......and to give some context.....



    .......and I still wouldn't have certain breeds in the house, like I don't keep my shotgun in the house......it's benign, even attractive when handled properly, but a mistake or a moment of completely unintended carelessness can have serious repercussions that are completely avoidable by not having the risk in the house.

    Most of the stats on fatalities by dogs are unreliable when it comes to breed type.

    Truth is that big powerful dogs are capable of killing people, regardless of breed


  • #246
    enfant terrible
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,774 ✭✭✭enfant terrible


    Samaris wrote: »
    I guess it wasn't concise enough.

    Yes, I support a ban, but not just on pitbull breeding, but on all purebreeding where it causes damage to the dogs.

    I do not specifically support a ban on specific breeds for dangerousness because there seems to be little evidence that it works. Either they are driven underground and breeding is even more lax (and training worse), or people get complacent with other dog breeds and/or it encourages the idiotic "hard man" swaggering. If X specific breed is banned, the next closest-looking is picked as the "look at the size of my penis" showpiece. Then it comes down to my anecdotal evidence against yours on whether the -dog itself- is dangerous by nature, or whether too many owners focus on getting these sorts of dogs with far more regard to their own image than to the dog's training or welfare. A straight ban, there we go, problem solved, doesn't actually solve the problem at all it would seem from places where it has been tried.

    I do support a form of dog licensing where an owner has to prove themselves knowledgeable and capable of looking after a dog, and that standard is held higher when the dog breed is -capable- of causing serious harm to people if it is poorly trained, be it by size, strength or jaw. I am less certain on the natural temperament, because I've read too many opposing opinions as to whether it is a good way of separating "dangerous" from "safe", and it also appears to make people complacent about other breeds. I can go either way on that.

    I apologise that my answer is "yes and no", but I don't think it's such a clear-cut argument as many would wish it to be.

    And it certainly doesn't mean that I have no regard for human safety, that is a ridiculously simplistic way of interpreting what I've written.

    Would you change your mind if the evidence showed a specific ban on breeds worked?

    http://www.ky3.com/content/news/Health-department-says-pit-bill-ordinance-works-and-should-not-be-repealed-409727295.html

    https://www.thestar.com/news/gta/2014/10/03/pit_bulls_were_torontos_biggest_biters_before_the_ban.html

    http://siouxcityjournal.com/news/local/crime-and-courts/years-later-impact-of-sioux-city-pit-bull-ban-unclear/article_85834f40-a0d3-55c6-b5cc-7b2f4be56e65.html?comment_form=true

    http://www.wausaudailyherald.com/story/news/local/2014/07/20/pit-bull-bans-controversial-work/12892813/

    http://www.news-leader.com/story/news/local/ozarks/2014/03/11/bill-puts-city-pit-bull-ban-at-risk/6313007/

    http://www.aurorasentinel.com/news/city-lawmakers-uphold-auroras-ban-pit-bulls/

    http://www.valleybreeze.com/2013-09-10/pawtucket/bites-pit-bulls-have-dropped-dramatically-2004#.WTUw1WjyuCi

    http://globalnews.ca/news/177500/toronto-dog-bites-fell-after-pit-bull-ban/

    http://ktvo.com/news/local/police-chief-supports-pit-bull-ban?id=481775

    http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/08/16/AR2009081601946_2.html?sid=ST2009081402424

    http://www.webcitation.org/mainframe.php

    Also found two studies but haven't had time to read them yet

    http://injuryprevention.bmj.com/content/19/3/177

    https://www.researchgate.net/publication/46095573_Decline_in_hospitalisations_due_to_dog_bite_injuries_in_Catalonia_1997-2008_An_effect_of_government_regulation


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  • #247
    Samaris
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,544 ✭✭✭Samaris


    I might, but it's going to take a while to get through that lot, so leave it with me!

    As a matter of interest, do you accept any of the points I have made so far, going beyond that one specific point that I have indicated I am uncertain on?


  • #248
    afkasurfjunkie
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 807 ✭✭✭afkasurfjunkie


    It's been alluded to on this thread twice but the woman's name has been released locally. She was visiting relatives so I'd hazard a guess that these dogs weren't beloved family pets with responsible owners.


  • #249
    andekwarhola
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,682 ✭✭✭andekwarhola


    Usual quality thread content, I see


  • #250
    retro:electro
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 21,039 ✭✭✭✭retro:electro


    The problem with these kinds of dogs is once they are aroused they will seldom back down. All of you who deem them as mild mannered and have them around your kids, to me this is barmy. Not a chance in hell would I take that risk. Every dog is unpredictable, but a dog with such ferocious power and strength, not a chance would I have it around my kids.

    For all of you excusing your dogs nature and its character, your posts are worryingly over confident and I hope most of it is just internet bravado and you don't have these dogs around your children.
    How stupid do you have to be to let a dog like that anywhere near a child. I have a Maltese and I'd never leave him alone with any child because believe all you like about how harmless they are, you just never know.
    Seems like many of the owners of these savage animals are just as uncontrolled as the dogs themselves.


  • #251
    Supergurrier
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,295 ✭✭✭Supergurrier


    Very sad when this happens.

    I'm a firm believer of the fact an owner has a large part to play in a dogs behavior but at the same time a dog that big needs to be under control and not let loose unless it's a dedicated guard dog.

    I have a 7 stone boxer/lab mix I rescued and he has a lovely playful temperament but I wouldn't leave him outside to wander regardless (lambing season/kids playing etc).

    The owner has a responsibility to safeguard their dog from dangerous situations like this as some people do not know how to act around dogs and their natural instincts can kick in.

    From personal experience in rural Galway I see a lot of owners who have multiple dogs they have no interest in that aren't walked and are bored and let wander for most of the day. Which is not good.


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  • #252
    enfant terrible
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,774 ✭✭✭enfant terrible


    Samaris wrote: »
    I might, but it's going to take a while to get through that lot, so leave it with me!

    As a matter of interest, do you accept any of the points I have made so far, going beyond that one specific point that I have indicated I am uncertain on?

    "I do support a form of dog licensing where an owner has to prove themselves knowledgeable and capable of looking after a dog, and that standard is held higher when the dog breed is -capable- of causing serious harm to people if it is poorly trained, be it by size, strength or jaw."

    I would agree with your idea but would see a ban as more effective and easier to implement.


  • #253
    steddyeddy
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 27,565 ✭✭✭✭steddyeddy


    enfant terrible wrote: »
    Would you change your mind if the evidence showed a specific ban on breeds worked?

    http://www.ky3.com/content/news/Health-department-says-pit-bill-ordinance-works-and-should-not-be-repealed-409727295.html

    https://www.thestar.com/news/gta/2014/10/03/pit_bulls_were_torontos_biggest_biters_before_the_ban.html

    http://siouxcityjournal.com/news/local/crime-and-courts/years-later-impact-of-sioux-city-pit-bull-ban-unclear/article_85834f40-a0d3-55c6-b5cc-7b2f4be56e65.html?comment_form=true

    http://www.wausaudailyherald.com/story/news/local/2014/07/20/pit-bull-bans-controversial-work/12892813/

    http://www.news-leader.com/story/news/local/ozarks/2014/03/11/bill-puts-city-pit-bull-ban-at-risk/6313007/

    http://www.aurorasentinel.com/news/city-lawmakers-uphold-auroras-ban-pit-bulls/

    http://www.valleybreeze.com/2013-09-10/pawtucket/bites-pit-bulls-have-dropped-dramatically-2004#.WTUw1WjyuCi

    http://globalnews.ca/news/177500/toronto-dog-bites-fell-after-pit-bull-ban/

    http://ktvo.com/news/local/police-chief-supports-pit-bull-ban?id=481775

    http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/08/16/AR2009081601946_2.html?sid=ST2009081402424

    http://www.webcitation.org/mainframe.php

    Also found two studies but haven't had time to read them yet

    http://injuryprevention.bmj.com/content/19/3/177

    https://www.researchgate.net/publication/46095573_Decline_in_hospitalisations_due_to_dog_bite_injuries_in_Catalonia_1997-2008_An_effect_of_government_regulation

    The sad thing is that breed specific legislation does work.


  • #254
    Tazzimus
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,945 ✭✭✭Tazzimus


    anna080 wrote: »
    The problem with these kinds of dogs is once they are aroused they will seldom back down. All of you who deem them as mild mannered and have them around your kids, to me this is barmy. Not a chance in hell would I take that risk. Every dog is unpredictable, but a dog with such ferocious power and strength, not a chance would I have it around my kids.

    For all of you excusing your dogs nature and its character, your posts are worryingly over confident and I hope most of it is just internet bravado and you don't have these dogs around your children.
    How stupid do you have to be to let a dog like that anywhere near a child. I have a Maltese and I'd never leave him alone with any child because believe all you like about how harmless they are, you just never know.
    Seems like many of the owners of these savage animals are just as uncontrolled as the dogs themselves.

    This post literally made me burst out laughing.


  • #255
    enfant terrible
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,774 ✭✭✭enfant terrible


    steddyeddy wrote: »
    The sad thing is that breed specific legislation does work.

    Unfortunately the possible well meaning simpletons who say my "doggie is a sweetheart would only lick you to death" can be effective in getting laws revoked.

    "Steeves' wife, Patricia, said Tuesday they felt it was unfair to have to pay higher registration fees for their pit bull, Noah, even though he has no history of aggression.

    "He's just a sweetheart," she said. "And even (when) strangers come into the house, the most he would do is lick them to death."

    Reading's 1998 law required that aggressive or dangerous dogs, when outside the home, be muzzled and kept on a leash shorter than three feet long with a minimum tensile strength of 300 pounds.

    The law also punished violators with fines of up to $1,000 or 30 days in jail.

    The law is credited with helping to reduce dog bites from 130 in 1999 to 33 in 2006. As a result, the law - or at least elements of it - were not being actively enforced, the Reading Eagle reported last year.

    The three-judge panel was split, with Judge Doris Smith-Ribner saying the ordinance should be upheld because it was an effort to protect people and regulate care and control of aggressive dogs that did not run counter to the state dog law.

    Pennsylvania's state Dog Law classifies as "dangerous" an individual dog that has attacked someone without provocation, one that killed or badly injured a domestic animal while off the dog owner's property or one that has been used to commit a crime.

    Neither Charles D. Younger, the city's lawyer in the case, nor Reading city manager Leon Churchill, returned phone messages seeking comment."

    http://6abc.com/archive/5975527/


  • #256
    enfant terrible
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,774 ✭✭✭enfant terrible


    Tazzimus wrote: »
    This post literally made me burst out laughing.

    Why most sensible people wouldn't leave a small child alone with a dog.

    Are you feeling ok?


  • #257
    DrPhilG
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,404 ✭✭✭✭DrPhilG


    peasant wrote: »
    Fact: Every dog has the potential to bite...every big(ger) dog has the potential to kill.
    Fact: Until we educate people how to raise and keep dogs responsibly accidents like this will continue to happen.
    Fact: Having recognised fact no 1...every accident/fatality is always the owners fault

    Nail on the head.

    Statistically most gun crime in the US is committed by young black males. So are all young black males thugs and killers? No. Statistically they are the biggest offenders but that shouldn't mean that all young black men should be viewed with blanket suspicion.

    I have had dogs and cats all my life. I currently have 2 dogs, a Rottie and a miniature JR. I also have 5 cats. The youngest cat used to like climbing all over the Rottie when she was a 4 week old kitten and also liked slapping her in the face from time to time. The response was to get rolled over by the Rottie and licked.

    Other dogs (Rotties, Staffs, Labs, JRs and Spaniels) would have probably eaten the kitten whole or tore it up and tossed it around for entertainment. Why didn't my Rott? Because she isn't vicious and she isn't any more likely to attack anyone or any pet than the average young black man you might meet in America is to shoot you.

    Statistics are valid. But they are not a blanket solution that must be applied to all.

    I've been out walking my Rottie and had a woman tell her child to stay away from "that bad dog" while her out of control mutt had to eventually be kicked away by me because it was trying to attack my dog and she didn't give a hoot.

    The dogs in this horrible case should be destroyed. But they are not vicious animals because they are Mastiffs. They are vicious because they were badly reared and badly trained. The owners or whoever was responsible for their upbringing should be held legally accountable for this poor woman's death.

    I have owned Labs and Golden Retrievers all my life and I can honestly say that I have never met a dog so gentle and affectionate as my Rottie. That said I would never leave her alone with a small child or someone who couldn't handle her if she lost the plot. That's not because she's a Rottie, it's because she's a dog. I would apply the same logic to the JR or any other dog.


  • #258
    DrPhilG
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,404 ✭✭✭✭DrPhilG


    All My Stars Aligned wrote: »
    I would love to hear your reason for choosing such a dog if you have one.

    I didn't so much choose my Rottie. She was essentially a rescue animal like the other 6 pets in the house. A friend bought her and didn't look after her properly. I met her when she was a pup and she had a lovely nature even then. My friend gave her away to his brother but I knew that he would end up shifting her on too so I told him that if he ever decided to get rid, we would take her. 6 months later, true to form he got bored and gave her to me. She's nearly 11 now so probably into her last year or 2 and still a big dote.


  • #259
    retro:electro
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 21,039 ✭✭✭✭retro:electro


    Tazzimus wrote: »
    This post literally made me burst out laughing.

    I bet you're the kind of person who lets your dangerous dog sleep with your kids and posts pictures of it on Facebook.


  • #260
    Tazzimus
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,945 ✭✭✭Tazzimus


    enfant terrible wrote: »
    Why most sensible people wouldn't leave a small child alone with a dog.

    Are you feeling ok?

    I'm feeling perfectly fine thanks.
    Strangers dog, fair enough I wouldn't until I knew what the dog was rared like. Any dog I've owned, not a problem. I know how the dog was raised: Around noisy people and kids all the time from a pup so they wouldn't get startled if a kid poked one or pulled on their ear etc.

    Again: It's down to the owners, not the dogs


  • #261
    Tazzimus
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,945 ✭✭✭Tazzimus


    anna080 wrote: »
    I bet you're the kind of person who lets your dangerous dog sleep with your kids and posts pictures of it on Facebook.

    Dangerous dog? Do you know my dog personally to make that statement?


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  • #262
    Free-2-Flow
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 442 ✭✭Free-2-Flow


    D3V!L wrote:
    So are golden labs, they're responsible for more attacks on family members than any other dogs. Strangely they don't get any bad press.

    That's only because the population of Labs are 10 times any other dogs.


  • #263
    Jawgap
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,296 ✭✭✭✭Jawgap


    Bambi wrote: »
    Most of the stats on fatalities by dogs are unreliable when it comes to breed type.

    Truth is that big powerful dogs are capable of killing people, regardless of breed

    Fair enough, but the data was compiled by the CDC, so it's probably the most reliable large set data you're going to get. Data is available from the UK (and Ireland) but being smaller samples they're likely to be less representative.

    Anyway my point in posting them was to address a point raised about the absence of dog bite data......there's plenty of data and a lot of it shows that certain breeds are over-represented when it comes to injuries presenting in hospital requiring treatment.

    Other breeds may bite more frequently, and still others may possess the capacity to inflict greater degrees of injury, but the actuality of the threat is described in the data.


  • #264
    boomerang
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,189 ✭✭✭boomerang


    PucaMama wrote: »
    Ah this old nonsense, ask a question then without thinking jump in with what you think is the correct answer.

    Why will my pug not bite anyone? Because he can just about chew his own food. Look at the jaw structure.

    I got bitten by my neighbour's pug.


  • #265
    Galwayguy35
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,052 ✭✭✭✭Galwayguy35


    Sad case but I don't blame the dogs for what happened.


  • #266
    borderlinemeath
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,373 ✭✭✭borderlinemeath


    enfant terrible wrote: »
    "I do support a form of dog licensing where an owner has to prove themselves knowledgeable and capable of looking after a dog, and that standard is held higher when the dog breed is -capable- of causing serious harm to people if it is poorly trained, be it by size, strength or jaw."

    I would agree with your idea but would see a ban as more effective and easier to implement.

    A ban is far harder to implement. You would have dogs seized that the owners would appeal and the dogs left in limbo (as per the current situation in the UK and NI) and it's based on an "expert" opinion as to whether the dog is suitable for release to owner to to be PTS.

    Whereas a licence and Swiss style course for a dog with varying grades - ie dogs up to 20kg, up to 30kg etc. A breed considered powerful regardless of size etc. No licence, dog seized - no comeback.


  • #267
    enfant terrible
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,774 ✭✭✭enfant terrible


    borderlinemeath wrote: »
    A ban is far harder to implement. You would have dogs seized that the owners would appeal and the dogs left in limbo (as per the current situation in the UK and NI) and it's based on an "expert" opinion as to whether the dog is suitable for release to owner to to be PTS.

    Whereas a licence and Swiss style course for a dog with varying grades - ie dogs up to 20kg, up to 30kg etc. A breed considered powerful regardless of size etc. No licence, dog seized - no comeback.

    How do the bans work in all the places that have successfully banned pit bulls?


  • #268
    JJayoo
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,025 ✭✭✭JJayoo


    If I get a big scary dog will that make up for all my insecurities and make me look well hard?


  • #269
    Tigger
    Closed Accounts Posts: 16,701 ✭✭✭✭Tigger


    So John creedons daughter didn't get her telly program made and she is now using a woman's death to justify pushing her dog owner training and licensing business

    it's likely that those dogs were encouraged to be gaurd dogs btw


  • #270
    Tigger
    Closed Accounts Posts: 16,701 ✭✭✭✭Tigger


    JJayoo wrote: »
    If I get a big scary dog will that make up for all my insecurities and make me look well hard?

    No it's the lads that walk around with a bichon freeze or similar that I always think are the most manly


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  • #271
    njs030
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,030 ✭✭✭njs030


    enfant terrible wrote: »
    How do the bans work in all the places that have successfully banned pit bulls?

    Badly is the answer.
    They are banned in the UK leading to a situation where any dog who looks like it could be a pitbull is in danger regardless if it actually is.
    So called 'experts' overrule evidence from actual experts (vets, DNA evidence) and order innocent dogs to be killed.
    The law is 'pitbull type dogs" as it isn't an actual breed.

    A tall staffie can easily be mistaken for a pitbull if someone doesn't know the difference, or a cross breed of 2 dogs that happens to look that way.


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