Questions from a passenger!!

lxflyer wrote: »

Any particular train?

The hourly Dublin-Cork trains do that journey in 42 minutes? The trains in the opposite direction do the trip in 50 minutes but this includes recovery time to cover for potential delays en route.

Neither of those is particularly slow surely?

The stopping trains serve every station en route and will inevitably be much slower.

It was well over an hour last time I made that journey and I don't think the train ever hit much more than 50MPH.

satguy wrote: »

It was well over an hour last time I made that journey and I don't think the train ever hit much more than 50MPH.

Was that on one of the stopping trains though? They're scheduled to take an hour 10 minutes approximately, but they are always going to take longer as they stop at every station and feed into the hourly Dublin-Cork service at Portlaoise which run non-stop from Heuston.

You need to pick the faster trains from the timetable:
http://www.irishrail.ie/media/16_dublin-portlaoise_valind_from_20112016.pdf

IE 222 wrote: »

Times are haphazard once the arrive at the first calling station. I'd be surprised if Dart demand was to even drop 1% if a train was to depart a station at xx:13 instead of xx:15. It's because there is no flexibility in Dart services that other services are subject to delays.

Allowing 1 southbound Dart an hour turning back at DL at peak times would be a lot more efficient and cater to a great number than running all the way to Bray with 15 - 20 people on board.

When I said "haphazard" I was referring to the frequency not individual station departure times.

The key is a core 15 minute DART frequency at all stations between Bray and Howth Junction.

Diluting that is not in my view acceptable. That happened before and we ended up with a ludicrously poor timetable with completely random gaps in service on the DART.

A core clockface standard frequency is what generates customers on public transport.

lxflyer wrote: »

When I said "haphazard" I was referring to the frequency not individual station departure times.

The key is a core 15 minute DART frequency at all stations between Bray and Howth Junction.

Diluting that is not in my view acceptable. That happened before and we ended up with a ludicrously poor timetable with completely an random gaps in service on the DART.

A core clockface standard frequency is what generates customers on public transport.

15 min service can be the basic service. Peak times can see 5 - 10min gap services. A realistic plan needs to be put in place regarding timetables. We are not going to major disruption if there is a 12 or 18 min gap in Dart services once an hour. I wouldn't think the vast majority using the DART even realise the 15min frequency in place. The majority just turn up and get on the next train.

Timetables also need the ability to hold DART at Connolly for 3 or 4 mins if needed to allow a Rosslare or Belfast ahead of it.

end of the road wrote: »

more chance of me being taoiseach then IE doing anything in any way to benefit rosslare passengers. when the 10 minute dart comes in they will probably shut the lot south of greystones anyway.



Even with 10 min DARTs better planning and more flexibility given to Dart timetables will allow other services to run faster and freely. 10 min darts will only ever be required between 7 - 10am and 3 -7pm.

Make better use of Dun Laoghaire and upgrade Clongriffin to cater for occasional turn backs when required.

10 min Dart in my opinion should be only be developed to run between Dun Laoghaire and Howth / Clongriffin the rest of the network will still avail of the 15 minute service.
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IE 222 wrote: »

It think your getting to obsessed about the rule min rule. A Bus service may run every 15 min but realistically that doesn't mean a bus will arrive at every stop every 15min but people still use as they know that roughly every 15min there will be a bus.

Clockface is pointless. It only works at the 4 originating stations.

I'm sorry but that is BS. The DART timetable has a DART departing every station every 15 minutes - go look at it.

People then know that trains leave their local station at the same minutes, 15 minutes apart, every hour, between Bray and Howth Junction.

That is best timetable practice for suburban rail services.

IE 222 wrote: »

Not throughout the whole day it doesn't. Who plans be be at station for xx:18.

The first thing you do when you arrive at a bus stop that has real time info displayed is to how long the next bus will be even though you know they run every 15mins.

The service isn't going to fall apart because one service might be 12 mins after the previous and next is 18mins after that one. Morning peak DARTs can run every 5 mins so this 15 min mind set you keep suggesting is changeable.

There will be still a min of 4 trains per hour either direction but occasionally there might be a 12 or 18 min gap in services.

I don't know why you are so obsessed with bus timetables. It has nothing to do with this. I'm talking about rail timetables which are perfectly capable of being clockface for city suburban services.

Trains can and do run to perfect clockface timetables all over the world. Do you think IE are in someway different that they shouldn't do that?

Go look at the London Overground - perfect 15 minute interval timetables at every station along the routes.

And bizarrely enough if people know that their train leaves their local station at xx:03, xx:18, xx:33 and xx:48 they will get to their station for those times.

What you are describing is not best practice.

lxflyer wrote: »

I don't know why you are so obsessed with bus timetables. It has nothing to do with this. I'm talking about rail timetables which are perfectly capable of being clockface for city suburban services.

Trains can and do run to perfect clockface timetables all over the world. Do you think IE are in someway different that they shouldn't do that?

Go look at the London Overground - perfect 15 minute interval timetables at every station along the routes.

And bizarrely enough if people know that their train leaves their local station at xx:03, xx:18, xx:33 and xx:48 they will get to their station for those times.

What you are describing is not best practice.

London overground has separate lines for separate services some of these will have bypass lines at stations while others will have 6 or more platforms serving each destination or service.

Bus is example of how popular the services are but yet they are the most unreliable to predict arrival times. If its better for you we can say the same about a Dart station. The first thing anyone looks at is the real time display board but yet you seem to think the DART timetables are programmed into their minds already. How often do you look at real time display board and precisely see 15min intervals between the next 3 or 4 DARTs.

Adjustments can easily be made to Dart timetables to allow services run off clockface (which currently some do), terminate in the likes of DL or Clongriffin (if turn back facilities are put in), or change departure frequency + or - 3mins. These small steps would bring huge operational benefits to other services which get held up by DARTs.

This will also increase Dart services as well in the short term. I belive people would rather capacity / frequency over clockface timetabling.

end of the road wrote: »

IE are different as they are running a mixed operation on a 2 track railway with no meaningful capacity and room for error. there is no point in comparing them to any other railway around the world, as those countries are willing to pay for their railway and invest in them, and the operator doesn't insist on removing loops, sidings and extra platforms which once existed which could have been used to a greater or lesser degree.

If sooner terminate commuter trains at hubs and allow users to change onto a dart than change the clockface scheduling on the dart.

CIARAN_BOYLE wrote: »

If sooner terminate commuter trains at hubs and allow users to change onto a dart than change the clockface scheduling on the dart.

well you would be wrong to do so.
assuming everyone didn't abandon the railway for the car, which would be likely and not surprising with a nonsense non-runner like that, you would have greater crowds with no increase in capacity on the dart service. you would be effecting a lot more then the suggestion you would be trying to avoid, which itself could be solved by better planning and investment in more passing loops.
+ actually those on long distance services pay higher fares so will correctly not tolerate downgrades in their services for you or anyone else.

me_right_one wrote: »

Most of the country has poor-to-none railway services. Yet here we have the dubs wanting a 10 minute dart instead of a 15 minute one. Dublin gets waaaay too much investment eventhough 3.5 times more people live OUTSIDE Dublin.

Dublin does not get investment proportionate to its population let alone it's financial provision. The rest of the state gets proportionally more

lxflyer wrote: »

A core clockface standard frequency is what generates customers on public transport.

Absolutely, a clockface timetable is essential for suburban and ideally other passenger services.

However this does not mean we should provide a good service to inner suburban stations at the expense of those people travelling a bit further.

The majority of passengers south east of the city, are travelling to or from Blackrock, DunLaoghaire and Bray.

Somebody going from Tara Street to Blackrock will be very happy with an all stopper every 15 minutes,even if he/she has to stand, and delighted with it every 10 mins.

The passenger heading to DunLaoghaire or further will not be happy standing for this distance.
The Bray or Greystones resident is entitled to a timetable and rolling stock appropriate to such a distance, that is a faster journey time and coaching with a higher seating/standing ratio.
The use of Jap (85/8600) on the Greystones service is oppressive on the southbound journey.In the morning peak, citybound passengers will be standing from Bray. LHB sets offer more seats per 8 car set, they would be even better if restored to full 72 seats per car.
Some years after introduction of DART services, there was a non stop between Pearse and Bray on loco hauled Rosslare services taking 20 minutes. Such timings on a regular basis, even half hourly, coupled with comfortable coaches, would be a catalyst to substantial growth in numbers using rail from Bray and Greystones.

Ideally, substantial four tracking is needed to provide a service which meets the needs of both inner suburban and outer passengers. In the absence of this, it is necessary to think outside the box. It is also necessary to use the infrastructure in an efficient way, practising traditional methods of railway working, that is, dispatching fast trains ahead of all stoppers, rather than the bizarre opposite that has become acceptable on Irish Rail.

A good timetable on the Greystones- Malahide corridor would be a halfhourly or 20 minute cycle, with fast trains leaving Pearse southbound, at xx15 and xx45,each followed by all stoppers to Bray at xx17 and xx47 (or perhaps xx18 and xx48), then an all stopper to Dun Laoghaire at xx32 and xx02. This would allow the fast train to have an unchecked run to it's first stop at DunLaoghaire in 8 minutes.

If Irish Rail, NTA and government cannot offer such a service, then consideration should be given to closing some of the intermediate stations, which are slowing down the service to the majority.

A quality bus corridor on the Merrion Rd + Rock Rd route, with extra buses on route 4 & 7, could take up the slack.

Another problem that needs to be addressed is the undisciplined working of DART trains. Most of them run between 1 and 2 minutes late, their drivers making no effort to recover lost time, making extended stops at intermediate stations. It would seem many are unaware of the actual time. An accurate clock, such as found in all Swiss or Dutch stations should help to deal with this, especially if accompanied with a carrot and stick approach to punctuality.

me_right_one wrote: »

Most of the country has poor-to-none railway services. Yet here we have the dubs wanting a 10 minute dart instead of a 15 minute one. Dublin gets waaaay too much investment eventhough 3.5 times more people live OUTSIDE Dublin.

Cork has good local rail links. Combined Cork and Dublin and it nearly half the population. If you include Dublins Commuting which have regular rail services we can up that to 2/3 of the population.

CIARAN_BOYLE wrote: »

Oddly I believe that it would be a service upgrade.

It would make timetabling simpler, possibly allowing a 10 minute dart. It would allow an increased level of services outside the city as the trains don't have to come into the city.

So empty one train into another and have Darts leaving malahide ect full. Makes no sense at all. Where are these transfer going to take place???