Victor wrote: » The electrified siding is sometimes used. The other one seems to be overgrown. There is the modest risk of a train over-running or a driver starting in the wrong direction. The extra section of electrification means they can return the train. Trains can also be moved to the other platform via this section - the preference is to do this via the crossover south of the station, but that might not always be possible I've occasionally seen an inspection car there, but not in recent years. It isn't very practical due to its short size. There is another turntable in the train yard.Some operate express from Connolly to Howth Junction in the morning, so they can do an extra peak-time trip to the city centre. If they stopped at every station, service would be slower and passengers nearer the city would squeeze out those travelling further.
lxflyer wrote: » Any particular train? The hourly Dublin-Cork trains do that journey in 42 minutes? The trains in the opposite direction do the trip in 50 minutes but this includes recovery time to cover for potential delays en route. Neither of those is particularly slow surely? The stopping trains serve every station en route and will inevitably be much slower.
satguy wrote: » It was well over an hour last time I made that journey and I don't think the train ever hit much more than 50MPH.
lxflyer wrote: » Going back to haphazard timetable patterns along the DART line isn't the solution either. We ended up with a dog's dinner of a timetable the last time that happened. The 15 minute clockface DART timetable is a key element of the product and I would not be in favour of changing that. Stopping DARTs at Dun Laoghaire and having longer gaps in the 15 minute frequency at stations between Dun Laoghaire and Bray would be a mistake in my opinion.
IE 222 wrote: » Times are haphazard once the arrive at the first calling station. I'd be surprised if Dart demand was to even drop 1% if a train was to depart a station at xx:13 instead of xx:15. It's because there is no flexibility in Dart services that other services are subject to delays. Allowing 1 southbound Dart an hour turning back at DL at peak times would be a lot more efficient and cater to a great number than running all the way to Bray with 15 - 20 people on board.
IE 222 wrote: » Of course it's possible just needs adjusted departure times to allow it to happen. It's not written into law that Greystones has to have a Dart service every 30 mins nor do it have to be a clock face timetable departure. Smarter planning can allow an IC service inbound and outbound to pass in Greystones to make up for the lost Dart service.
lxflyer wrote: » When I said "haphazard" I was referring to the frequency not individual station departure times. The key is a core 15 minute DART frequency at all stations between Bray and Howth Junction. Diluting that is not in my view acceptable. That happened before and we ended up with a ludicrously poor timetable with completely an random gaps in service on the DART. A core clockface standard frequency is what generates customers on public transport.
IE 222 wrote: » 15 min service can be the basic service. Peak times can see 5 - 10min gap services. A realistic plan needs to be put in place regarding timetables. We are not going to major disruption if there is a 12 or 18 min gap in Dart services once an hour. I wouldn't think the vast majority using the DART even realise the 15min frequency in place. The majority just turn up and get on the next train. Timetables also need the ability to hold DART at Connolly for 3 or 4 mins if needed to allow a Rosslare or Belfast ahead of it.
end of the road wrote: » more chance of me being taoiseach then IE doing anything in any way to benefit rosslare passengers. when the 10 minute dart comes in they will probably shut the lot south of greystones anyway. Even with 10 min DARTs better planning and more flexibility given to Dart timetables will allow other services to run faster and freely. 10 min darts will only ever be required between 7 - 10am and 3 -7pm. Make better use of Dun Laoghaire and upgrade Clongriffin to cater for occasional turn backs when required. 10 min Dart in my opinion should be only be developed to run between Dun Laoghaire and Howth / Clongriffin the rest of the network will still avail of the 15 minute service. .
lxflyer wrote: » I would fundamentally agree with your first point - I would suggest that most people know that it is a core clockface 15 minute frequency - there was substantial publicity about it - bastardising that is not the correct approach. It flies in the face of good timetable practice for city commuter services. Clockface interval services are what generate custom - once you start changing that it becomes far less attractive. Start with the 15-minute fixed interval DART timetable and build everything else around that.
IE 222 wrote: » It think your getting to obsessed about the rule min rule. A Bus service may run every 15 min but realistically that doesn't mean a bus will arrive at every stop every 15min but people still use as they know that roughly every 15min there will be a bus. Clockface is pointless. It only works at the 4 originating stations.
lxflyer wrote: » I'm sorry but that is BS. The DART timetable has a DART departing every station every 15 minutes - go look at it. People then know that trains leave their local station at the same minutes, 15 minutes apart, every hour, between Bray and Howth Junction. That is best timetable practice for suburban rail services.
IE 222 wrote: » Not throughout the whole day it doesn't. Who plans be be at station for xx:18. The first thing you do when you arrive at a bus stop that has real time info displayed is to how long the next bus will be even though you know they run every 15mins. The service isn't going to fall apart because one service might be 12 mins after the previous and next is 18mins after that one. Morning peak DARTs can run every 5 mins so this 15 min mind set you keep suggesting is changeable. There will be still a min of 4 trains per hour either direction but occasionally there might be a 12 or 18 min gap in services.
lxflyer wrote: » I don't know why you are so obsessed with bus timetables. It has nothing to do with this. I'm talking about rail timetables which are perfectly capable of being clockface for city suburban services. Trains can and do run to perfect clockface timetables all over the world. Do you think IE are in someway different that they shouldn't do that? Go look at the London Overground - perfect 15 minute interval timetables at every station along the routes. And bizarrely enough if people know that their train leaves their local station at xx:03, xx:18, xx:33 and xx:48 they will get to their station for those times. What you are describing is not best practice.
end of the road wrote: » IE are different as they are running a mixed operation on a 2 track railway with no meaningful capacity and room for error. there is no point in comparing them to any other railway around the world, as those countries are willing to pay for their railway and invest in them, and the operator doesn't insist on removing loops, sidings and extra platforms which once existed which could have been used to a greater or lesser degree.
lxflyer wrote: » I took London Overground as an example - but there are plenty of other examples that are not segregated where there are clockface timetables. It is best practice. The original point you made was suggesting cutting a southbound DART at Dun Laoghaire in order to speed up the Rosslare service. That would clearly cause a 30 minute gap in service at stations south of DL and I don't think that is acceptable.
CIARAN_BOYLE wrote: » If sooner terminate commuter trains at hubs and allow users to change onto a dart than change the clockface scheduling on the dart.
me_right_one wrote: » Most of the country has poor-to-none railway services. Yet here we have the dubs wanting a 10 minute dart instead of a 15 minute one. Dublin gets waaaay too much investment eventhough 3.5 times more people live OUTSIDE Dublin.
end of the road wrote: » well you would be wrong to do so. assuming everyone didn't abandon the railway for the car, which would be likely and not surprising with a nonsense non-runner like that, you would have greater crowds with no increase in capacity on the dart service. you would be effecting a lot more then the suggestion you would be trying to avoid, which itself could be solved by better planning and investment in more passing loops. + actually those on long distance services pay higher fares so will correctly not tolerate downgrades in their services for you or anyone else.
CIARAN_BOYLE wrote: » Oddly I believe that it would be a service upgrade. It would make timetabling simpler, possibly allowing a 10 minute dart. It would allow an increased level of services outside the city as the trains don't have to come into the city.
lxflyer wrote: » A core clockface standard frequency is what generates customers on public transport.
tabbey wrote: » Somebody going from Tara Street to Blackrock will be very happy with an all stopper every 15 minutes,even if he/she has to stand, and delighted with it every 10 mins. The passenger heading to DunLaoghaire or further will not be happy standing for this distance.
tabbey wrote: » If Irish Rail, NTA and government cannot offer such a service, then consideration should be given to closing some of the intermediate stations, which are slowing down the service to the majority.
