London terror attack confirmed by Met Police

Dude89 · 04-06-2017 10:52AM

Can anyone explain why there is a rapidly growing
Muslim population in this country? They obviously
see Ireland as a better proposition than Britain
and the"Holy Land".

tiger55 · 04-06-2017 10:52AM

Romantic Rose wrote: »

FTA69 wrote: »

5% of the British population are Muslims, the majority of whom were born here and the vast majority who live normal and productive lives here. How are you going to root them out by chance?

How many on the watch list? A lot living in closed communities who don't want to integrate. I want controlled immigration and I want to know exactly who is living in our midst.

There is a video going about of these 'moderate' Muslims driving about terror scene laughing and point their guns like guns at police at the scene.
What will happen when all these Irish immigrants fighting in Syria and Iraq come 'home'
http://www.irishexaminer.com/ireland/senior-gardai-concerned-over-return-to-ireland-of-syria-fighters-430402.html

jamesbere · 04-06-2017 10:53AM

Watching sky news and showing clips of people running away from the scene and trying to video it on their phone.

Your life could be in danger and these people's first taught is to video it

bodice ripper · 04-06-2017 10:53AM

Romantic Rose wrote:

Good for her but that's not what I see. I've had parent teacher meetings where the woman wouldn't or should I say couldn't shake my hand nor could she make any contribution towards her child's developement. Very bizarre.

Well, that's anecdotal evidence for you. I have met Eastern European men who wouldn't shake my hand. This family are happy to let their little boys sit and chat with me, when I am heavily tattooed, wearing a wife beater and have the side of me head shaved and tattooed.

listermint · 04-06-2017 10:54AM

Itssoeasy wrote: »

Having just listened to Teresa may speaking outside Downing Street, there sounded like a different tone in a "right the gloves are off" way.

And that means what exactly?

Bomb Libya.

May is incompetent. The police officers on the ground are doing this work today the same officers that Mays government are under funding the same health services that Mays government are under funding and the same social services that Mays government are underfunded

Cause and effect the reasons for the disenfranchised are vast. What does her get tough talk actually mean... Details

pjohnson · 04-06-2017 10:55AM

bodice ripper wrote: »

Well, that's anecdotal evidence for you. I have met Eastern European men who wouldn't shake my hand. This family are happy to let their little boys sit and chat with me, when I am heavily tattooed, wearing a wife beater and have the side of me head shaved and tattooed.

Off topic. Does tatting your scalp not hurt like hell?

bodice ripper · 04-06-2017 10:56AM

pjohnson wrote:

Off topic. Does tatting your scalp not hurt like hell?

Easiest tattoo I ever had done. By a long chalk.

tiger55 · 04-06-2017 10:56AM

Boggy Turf wrote: »

The first thing to accept is that this type of terrorism will occur in the UK for many years to come. The reasons are complex but essentially it is cause & effect. The murderers kill out of anger and their perception that their people and religion have been very wronged in the middle east for decades by western governments and their obsession on oil. Within the UK there are socio-economic and irrational religious reasons for young men to martyr themselves. The lunatics have found new ways to terrorise which makes it very hard to prevent.

How does that explain the attacks in Spain metro system? Or truck ramming in Sweden? Or the Bali attacks on Tourists?

Yourself isit · 04-06-2017 10:56AM

Phoebas wrote: »

The terrorists with the semtex found the other day are hardly getting a mention.
If they were Islamic rather than Republican terrorists, people would be calling for a state of emergency to be called.

They were mentioned.

Christy42 · 04-06-2017 10:59AM

Sand wrote: »

Controlled immigration will help. The UK needs to be honest with itself that immigration is something that is deliberately engineered by the host country to achieve a positive result for the host country - not as some sort of global scholarship.

Secondly, its a tangent, but people given the option will always prefer a smaller, greyer population and all the problems that brings than a larger, multicultural population and all the strife, violence and tension that brings. Its not as if open borders immigration is even necessary - youth unemployment is a significant issue across the EU. There is no shortage of labour, and automation means there will be even less demand for unskilled labour in the future. The signature of open borders immigration is heavily armed soldiers and paramilitary police units regularly patrolling the streets of Europe's cities today.

That's not true. This attack was carried out in the UK with 3 knives and a white van. I would imagine the terrorists are nominally British. The propaganda ad were carried by social media.

None of this requires a budget of billions. It just requires bitter, angry fanatics already located in the target countries.

The propoganda and the existence of ISIS in the middle east require vast sums of money. You really think if those nutters in the middle east were active this attack would happen? The money does not go into the attacks themselves but into keeping the conditions were attacks may happen active.

I keep hearing the term controlled immigration. We have that. Maybe the details can nudged a bit after a review but the way some go on you would think we had open borders. We have controlled immigration so it is not the solution.

Sand · 04-06-2017 10:59AM

Jimmy_Russell wrote: »

Once again innocent muslims will bear the brunt of this, they will be met with suspicion ad scrutiny now, in many ways Islam is the biggest victim of all this. We cant dwell on the past we need to move on already europe needs to learn to live with these unfortunate incidents and put these unfortunate events behind us otherwise we are playing into the hands of nazi’s like trump and farage

If you have a few hundred posts, you could play this card. But with just 1 post its too much, too soon. Poorly played.

123shooter · 04-06-2017 11:00AM

Jimmy_Russell wrote: »

Once again innocent muslims will bear the brunt of this, they will be met with suspicion ad scrutiny now, in many ways Islam is the biggest victim of all this. We cant dwell on the past we need to move on already europe needs to learn to live with these unfortunate incidents and put these unfortunate events behind us otherwise we are playing into the hands of nazi’s like trump and farage

Yeah yeah yeah just the kind of stuff you would expect from the lefties in an attempt to stifle and you joined just to post that?

jackboy · 04-06-2017 11:00AM

Phoebas wrote: »

Maybe they live wretched lives, maybe they don't. When you actually ask Muslim women about their lives they tend to say they are ok with the garb they wear.

Of course they would say that. They have been indoctrinated into a religion. The clothes side of things might be seen as relatively harmless but there are more insidious 'rules' a lot of these women must follow. In general, the husband has absolute control over most areas of their wives lives.
When a person has absolute control at home, how can that person deal with the world outside their home, when they are frequently told no.

Conservative · 04-06-2017 11:00AM

listermint wrote: »

Conservative wrote: »

Re: Semtex. Anyone involved in dissident Republicanism should be interned (being kind) also, along with their scumbags mates and family if they are thought to be sympathisers too. I have no idea what point you are trying to make.

Anti-Muslim sentiment is just going to grow and we in Ireland are going to end up with exactly the same scenario of disillusioned communities striking out at us. The vast majority of Muslims were not born here and have no right here. Deport them and refuse to take any EU born Muslims going forward unless they perform essential duties.

... Being kind..! ?

Your sentiments are not better than those who would run over people in a van.

Birds of a feather

I'm advocating some rough justice for the scum of the earth. How does that equate to running over innocent people and trying to behead them in public?

Samaris · 04-06-2017 11:02AM

Conservative wrote: »

Re: Semtex. Anyone involved in dissident Republicanism should be interned (being kind) also, along with their scumbags mates and family if they are thought to be sympathisers too. I have no idea what point you are trying to make.

Anti-Muslim sentiment is just going to grow and we in Ireland are going to end up with exactly the same scenario of disillusioned communities striking out at us. The vast majority of Muslims were not born here and have no right here. Deport them and refuse to take any EU born Muslims going forward unless they perform essential duties.

Just to be clear, are you saying that this is going to happen anyway, or are you advocating it should happen by suddenly turning on the Muslim community in Ireland, breaking up families (although I suppose you could kindly deport the evil Muslim's Irish husband or wife and any children), deporting innocent people, rendering Irish-born children wards of the state (or casting them out to countries where they don't belong and may be in danger), etc, etc. Maybe some old internship while they wait to have their fates decided as sure you can't have rogue Muslims running around the place. (And of course some signs up saying "HAVE YOU SEEN THIS MUSLIM? Report all Muslims to the Gardai immediately")

Because that will indeed be an excellent way to rouse fury and fear in a whole sector of people and give their children plenty of reason to be sucked into the ISIS bullsh*t.

All in all, I can't offhand think of a better short-term way to introduce trouble here. ISIS would be delighted.

(By the way, how young is too young for family members of IRA dissidents to be interned? 13? 10? 5? Do we intern the babies too? Or do they get made wards of the state while we intern their families? Do the children get released when they become adults or is it better to just leave them to rot, just in case they've genetically inherited IRA-ness? Do they get put in with the Muslim families too while they await deporting or do we build separate internment facilities? How do you reckon children of the interned will feel, growing up and knowing that they have no blood family because their entirely innocent parents were imprisoned by the State because their mother's brother was suspected of IRA involvement? Do you reckon that will make them more or less inclined to grow up as ordinary Irish citizens or that such an experience might warp their views somewhat? Do you remember how public opinion reacted to the hunger strikes? And those were the actually guilty ones.)

In short, your proposals are draconian, foolish and counter-productive. And they will not work.

ricero · 04-06-2017 11:03AM

Jimmy_Russell wrote: »

Once again innocent muslims will bear the brunt of this, they will be met with suspicion ad scrutiny now, in many ways Islam is the biggest victim of all this. We cant dwell on the past we need to move on already europe needs to learn to live with these unfortunate incidents and put these unfortunate events behind us otherwise we are playing into the hands of nazi’s like trump and farage

Liberal nonsense. Lets hold hands, sing a few songs and light a few candles.

Time to get tough and fight fire with fire. Zero tolerance on these islamic terrorists from now on.

Tomatoheadfred · 04-06-2017 11:04AM

"Islamophobes"

Atheists must speak out more against Islam as the oppressive political and social set of beliefs and practices. Muslims represent 1/5th of the world's population but account for more than 2/3rds of the world's terrorism (National Counterterrorism Center). We must examine the world view that binds all Muslims together and that is Islam.

It's not Islamophobic to critique, debate and satirise Islam. No religion should be above criticism but unfortunately Islam has been given that status. If someone criticises Catholicism and its hardcore adherents, are they "Catholicophobic?" Of course not. The term Islamophobia is used to silence critics.

Gringo180 · 04-06-2017 11:05AM

Jaysus we have now got posters saying the right to bear arms should be the next step. For ****s sake i really fear for the human race with people who think like that. There would of been at least 100 dead last night if these loons had access to guns and dont give me bolloocks that they wouldnt have them if they were vetted.

listermint · 04-06-2017 11:06AM

Conservative wrote: »

I'm advocating some rough justice for the scum of the earth. How does that equate to running over innocent people and trying to behead them in public?

Who's the scum though?

How do we gauge the scum?

Entire family's ? Neighbours? Maybe people they spoke to in their local shop.

Who's the scum detection agency we may need new courts to decide who drafts up the legislation? Do we have a referendum on modifying the Constitution?

All interesting points you raise.

I'm intrigued and wish to subscribe to your news letter

crashadder · 04-06-2017 11:07AM

nothing justifies this brutal attack. it is true that islam is slightly worse than other religions. The problem basically is with the region not religion itself. Vast majority of Turkey is muslim yet they have been targeted by isis quite a few times last year because of their syria policy. I dont understand why western governments will not simply leave middle east alone ? why are they so determined to "bring democracy" over there. ? if you admit to accidentally killing hundreds of civilians in middle east then i guess this is simply a retaliation .

Romantic Rose · 04-06-2017 11:07AM

jackboy wrote: »

Of course they would say that. They have been indoctrinated into a religion. The clothes side of things might be seen as relatively harmless but there are more insidious 'rules' a lot of these women must follow. In general, the husband has absolute control over most areas of their wives lives.
When a person has absolute control at home, how can that person deal with the world outside their home, when they are frequently told no.

I think most people don't see that side of Islam because they might not come into contact with it on a daily basis. I've tried to teach boys from Sudan and Libya and they were completely brainwashed even at 7 and 8 years old. At first they refused to be taught by me because I was female and even when they realised that their beliefs weren't going to be pandered to, there was no respect there.

One boy I taught from Libya, I will always remember his name because of his extremely sexist views and I'll put money on it that we'll see him in the papers some day for all the wrong reasons.

listermint · 04-06-2017 11:07AM

Tomatoheadfred wrote: »

"Islamophobes"

Atheists must speak out more against Islam as the oppressive political and social set of beliefs and practices. Muslims represent 1/5th of the world's population but account for more than 2/3rds of the world's terrorism (National Counterterrorism Center). We must examine the world view that binds all Muslims together and that is Islam.

It's not Islamophobic to critique, debate and satirise Islam. No religion should be above criticism but unfortunately Islam has been given that status. If someone criticises Catholicism and its hardcore adherents, are they "Catholicophobic?" Of course not. The term Islamophobia is used to silence critics.

Atheists speak out about all religions.

What are you on about..

Phoebas · 04-06-2017 11:08AM

jackboy wrote: »

Of course they would say that. They have been indoctrinated into a religion. The clothes side of things might be seen as relatively harmless but there are more insidious 'rules' a lot of these women must follow. In general, the husband has absolute control over most areas of their wives lives.
When a person has absolute control at home, how can that person deal with the world outside their home, when they are frequently told no.

It wouldn't be the life I'd choose, but if they say they're ok with their choice and they don't think that their lives are wretched, then I think you have to take them at face value. A lot of people who clearly antagonist towards Muslims pretend to know a lot about their thought processes.

I'm still not getting how this is relevant to a discussion about a terror attack.

Hank Scorpio · 04-06-2017 11:08AM

Gringo180 wrote: »

Jaysus we have now got posters saying the right to bear arms should be the next step. For ****s sake i really fear for the human race with people who think like that. There would of been at least 100 dead last night if these loons had access to guns and dont give me bolloocks that they wouldnt have them if they were vetted.

Very true, think of the Orlando nightclub shooting.

123shooter · 04-06-2017 11:09AM

Gringo180 wrote: »

Jaysus we have now got posters saying the right to bear arms should be the next step. For ****s sake i really fear for the human race with people who think like that. There would of been at least 100 dead last night if these loons had access to guns and dont give me bolloocks that they wouldnt have them if they were vetted.

Don't be naive. They most likely have them and worse but will save them for something more horrific. What happened recently just proves that they dont need guns to cripple a country and kill en-mass. So banning guns or knives or screwdrivers or even cars will not stop anything.

Sand · 04-06-2017 11:09AM

Christy42 wrote: »

The propoganda and the existence of ISIS in the middle east require vast sums of money. You really think if those nutters in the middle east were active this attack would happen? The money does not go into the attacks themselves but into keeping the conditions were attacks may happen active.

Do I think 3 angry men could get their hands on knives and a van without a donation from abroad? Yes, I do. The price of carrying out a terrorist attack is a few hundred Euro.

ISIS is just the current flagship. Before it was Al-Queda. Before that it was a whole host of regional terrorist groupings. Behind it all is 60-70 years jihadist ideology originating in Egypt and spread by Saudi Arabia. All it requires to access it is a social media account.

Cut off ISIS funding - this is completely agreed. But don't expect it to have any real effect on terrorist attacks in Europe. Even if ISIS is destroyed, another group or organisation will arise over time. The real problem is the ideology and Saudi Arabia.

I keep hearing the term controlled immigration. We have that. Maybe the details can nudged a bit after a review but the way some go on you would think we had open borders. We have controlled immigration so it is not the solution.

Depends on who you mean by 'we'. There was millions flooding into Europe completely uncontrolled until a revolt by the voters forced their leaders to adjust course. There is still hundreds of thousands expected to cross the Med this year.

The reaction to this from political leaders has been to try and normalise it, rather than prevent it with extensive efforts from the great and the good to encourage an open borders migration on the basis that migration is always good, even when it is not.

Hank Scorpio · 04-06-2017 11:09AM

Phoebas wrote: »

It wouldn't be the life I'd choose, but if they say they're ok with their choice and they don't think that their lives are wretched, then I think you have to take them at face value. A lot of people who clearly antagonist towards Muslims pretend to know a lot about their thought processes.

I'm still not getting how this is relevant to a discussion about a terror attack.

Choice?

Samaris · 04-06-2017 11:10AM

Tomatoheadfred wrote: »

"Islamophobes"

Atheists must speak out more against Islam as the oppressive political and social set of beliefs and practices. Muslims represent 1/5th of the world's population but account for more than 2/3rds of the world's terrorism (National Counterterrorism Center). We must examine the world view that binds all Muslims together and that is Islam.

It's not Islamophobic to critique, debate and satirise Islam. No religion should be above criticism but unfortunately Islam has been given that status. If someone criticises Catholicism and its hardcore adherents, are they "Catholicophobic?" Of course not. The term Islamophobia is used to silence critics.

I for one have no issues with talking about the major cultural problems with many forms of Islam. Because there are a good few big issues that don't fold well into our general "western" societies. We tamed Christianity and the same will have to happen with Islam, because our drive is overall towards secularism. That is our choice.

I object to islamaphobic idiocy like the last post I responded to, which is counter-productive, rather cowardly, downright -wrong- and absolutely going to bring exactly the trouble we don't want on us for no reason other than panicked knee-jerk reactionism.

Gbear · 04-06-2017 11:12AM

Sand wrote: »

ISIS murders and bombs tens of thousands if not hundreds of thousands in the Middle East, but still draws support. Bombing or killing Muslims is not an issue for them or their supporters. Countries like Sweden that have not bombed the Middle East have been targeted in the same way countries linked to Syria have been.

But IS only exist because of said bombing.

The persistent destabilisation of the Middle East is creating terrorists.
It also created a massive refugee crisis.

To an extent, the horse has already bolted, but there's still time for Syria.
Between Assad, Saudi Arabia and Iran, they can get a hold on the big ****ing mess that the Middle East has become.

There will be dictators, there will be civil war, there will be war crimes and systematic torture and murder of civilians, but it's now been shown that trying to fix that not only creates more problems for the rest of the world but it also makes it worse for the region as well.

The terrorists aren't after one thing, and I doubt lunatics like that are generally strong in the logic department.
The issue with Islam IMO, isn't so much about what it does directly to influence people but rather how it frames the world.
It's their basis for viewing good and evil, morality and immorality.
It doesn't matter who bombed who. It's not about revenge.
The bombing destroys families, makes people desperate, takes their choices away and turns people into the sort of dangerous young men that aren't unique to the Middle East.

The profile of a lot of them puts me in mind of Breivik, or other spree shooters - misanthropy, moralising judgements on a "fallen" society and a frankly embarassing degree of self-righteousness. There's a lot of celebration of historical, imperialistic and warlike figures like the Romans for the Neo-Nazis, or the Arabain kingdoms for Muslims, with their desire for a new Caliphate not sounding terribly dissimilar to a Fourth Reich.

Islam then gives them their target. As with the sort of neo-fascist and alt-right ideology of Breivik pitting him against weak liberals destroying their society from the inside, extremist Islam pits the Muslim world against the degenerate West.

You talk about wanting to control something that frightens you, but I think it's exactly the same with those who want to ban all refugees or whatever. Their way of doing it is to emphasise the otherness of Muslims, but while there are differences, I think the perpetrators aren't anything different to what we see in our own society in principle.
They have an ideology which more explicitly directs them to attack our societies and arguably, they're coming from more primative, violent cultures, but I don't think on a fundamental level they're any different to the kinds of people who perpetrate these attacks for other reasons.

You're not seeing happy, successful Mohammed the Biomedical Engineer seeing some Mullah ranting on TV and then becoming a terrorist like the flip of a switch.
I think the profile is one that we're already really bad at dealing with in society - one that we have more broader problems with around unemployment, undereducation, depression and other mental health issues. In the case of the Muslim population, their version of these guys are getting funneled into these causes.
Or at least that's what I reckon.

Conservative · 04-06-2017 11:14AM

bodice ripper wrote: »

pjohnson wrote:

Off topic. Does tatting your scalp not hurt like hell?

Easiest tattoo I ever had done. By a long chalk.

Did they remove your brain beforehand?

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London terror attack confirmed by Met Police

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