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London terror attack confirmed by Met Police

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Comments

  • #902
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 45,738 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    DeanAustin wrote: »
    You'd need some resources to investigate everyone who associates with people on the watchlist and most of those investigations would come to nothing.

    Also, under the current laws, none of this is a crime. To go from that to deportation (of British nationals) is just never going to happen.


    Maybe some laws need to to revalued then.


  • #903
    Neon_Lights
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,426 ✭✭✭Neon_Lights


    kaymin wrote: »
    How about not selectively quoting other people. The full comment was:

    If you're shown to be for example actively embracing extremist ideology, reading extremist literature and regularly seen in the company of other known extremists then you should be considered a danger and treated accordingly.

    Agreed deport them to Turkey, then catapult them over the border to Syria.


  • #904
    DeanAustin
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,885 ✭✭✭DeanAustin


    kaymin wrote: »
    How about not selectively quoting other people. The full comment was:

    If you're shown to be for example actively embracing extremist ideology, reading extremist literature and regularly seen in the company of other known extremists then you should be considered a danger and treated accordingly.

    Fair point. I still think my argument stands though.

    Investigating everyone who meets those criteria would require a lot of extra police resources.

    Those things are not a crime right now so to go from that to deportation is just not going to happen.

    These people are British, where do you deport them to?


  • #905
    AudreyHepburn
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,673 ✭✭✭AudreyHepburn


    DeanAustin wrote: »
    You'd need some resources to investigate everyone who associates with people on the watchlist and most of those investigations would come to nothing.

    Also, under the current laws, none of this is a crime. To go from that to deportation (of British nationals) is just never going to happen.

    The law needs to be changed then. Too many innocent lives have been ruined and lost. It cannot be allowed to continue.

    Simply saying 'it's not against the law' or 'there aren't enough resources' just isn't good enough.


  • #906
    Conservative
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 596 ✭✭✭Conservative


    DeanAustin wrote: »
    kaymin wrote: »
    How about not selectively quoting other people. The full comment was:

    If you're shown to be for example actively embracing extremist ideology, reading extremist literature and regularly seen in the company of other known extremists then you should be considered a danger and treated accordingly.

    Fair point. I still think my argument stands though.

    Investigating everyone who meets those criteria would require a lot of extra police resources.

    Those things are not a crime right now so to go from that to deportation is just not going to happen.

    These people are British, where do you deport them to?

    Gulags.


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  • #907
    Romantic Rose
    Closed Accounts Posts: 491 ✭✭Romantic Rose


    I think we need to get to the root of the problem and extract it now. The root being Islam and it's backward ideologies. It's just not compatible with our society.

    People arguing that it's not recent Muslim immigrants that are committing these attacks. Isn't that a lot worse because they've lived in a civilised society for a generation or more and they couldn't be integrated and live in a civilised way. Instead they literally want to throw it all back in our faces.

    I believe in multiculturalism but I'd prefer if it was with more likeminded cultures which we already have within Europe and beyond.

    The more I meet people from Muslim backgrounds, the more I believe their religion is completely backward. Their beliefs are just too extreme for us. Why they are so easily influenced is beyond me.


  • #908
    Nalz
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,058 ✭✭✭✭Nalz


    Just awful. I agree with the comments that it's a losing battle. Something has got to give.

    The journal app not working for anyone else? I got the alert but app won't load.


  • #909
    AudreyHepburn
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,673 ✭✭✭AudreyHepburn


    DeanAustin wrote: »
    Fair point. I still think my argument stands though.

    Investigating everyone who meets those criteria would require a lot of extra police resources.

    Those things are not a crime right now so to go from that to deportation is just not going to happen.

    These people are British, where do you deport them to?

    But they don't want to be British, they want to be part of an ultra conservative extremist Muslim caliphate. So why not send them back to one?


  • #910
    Phoebas
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,371 ✭✭✭Phoebas


    Conservative wrote: »

    If you walk into any halal fast food shop in Ireland (not as common) or the UK you will find it staffed mostly by non-Irish/British Muslims. Why are we allowing such people to remain in our countries? There are plenty of illegals running Halal and Asian food stores here but it's never talked about.

    What's the evidence for that?


  • #911
    DeanAustin
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,885 ✭✭✭DeanAustin


    RoboKlopp wrote: »
    Maybe some laws need to to revalued then.

    If you make that a crime worthy of deportation, you would have to make it a crime to read, for example, white supremacist literature. Then you have to define what falls into that bracket.

    It's a fine line from that to impinging on freedom of speech or being open to charges of being a "nanny state".

    Then, where do you deport those British Muslims to? And where would you deport British white supremacists to?


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  • #912
    pjohnson
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 25,222 ✭✭✭✭pjohnson


    DeanAustin wrote: »
    Fair point. I still think my argument stands though.

    Investigating everyone who meets those criteria would require a lot of extra police resources.

    Those things are not a crime right now so to go from that to deportation is just not going to happen.

    These people are British, where do you deport them to?

    These people choose to believe the Islamic STATE mantra. The IS is generally believed to be based in Iraq or Syria. Send him to the state he wants to be from.


  • #913
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 12,762 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Phoebas wrote: »
    What's the evidence for that?

    Shhh now... Don't be trying to get proof of idiotic claims off people.

    It's de muzzies, innit?

    There'll be no proof, because its an untruth, a lie, an exaggeration of fact, like most of this thread.

    RIP the 6 victims


  • #914
    DeanAustin
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,885 ✭✭✭DeanAustin


    AudreyHepburn wrote: »
    But they don't want to be British, they want to be part of an ultra conservative extremist Muslim caliphate. So why not send them back to one?

    So do you think the governments of Saudi Arabia, Iraq, UAE or one of these places will accept British nationals who are being deported from Britain for suspected terrorism offences?


  • #915
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 45,738 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Romantic Rose wrote: »
    I think we need to get to the root of the problem and extract it now. The root being Islam and it's backward ideologies. It's just not compatible with our society.

    People arguing that it's not recent Muslim immigrants that are committing these attacks. Isn't that a lot worse because they've lived in a civilised society for a generation or more and they couldn't be integrated and live in a civilised way. Instead they literally want to throw it all back in our faces.

    I believe in multiculturalism but I'd prefer if it was with more likeminded cultures which we already have within Europe and beyond.

    The more I meet people from Muslim backgrounds, the more I believe their religion is completely backward. Their beliefs are just too extreme for us. Why they are so easily influenced is beyond me.


    Intolerance is also backward. More so to be honest.

    I had family in the UK during the 70s when the IRA were bombing it. The Irish were hated over the there by a lot of people. Going by your logic, they've have been deported.

    Itd be great if everything was black and white and so simple to fix. Unfortunately not.


  • #916
    Phoebas
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,371 ✭✭✭Phoebas


    AudreyHepburn wrote: »
    But they don't want to be British, they want to be part of an ultra conservative extremist Muslim caliphate. So why not send them back to one?

    I'm sure that if you think about it yourself for five seconds, you can figure out why Britain can't send natural born British subjects to an ultra conservative extremist Muslim caliphate.


  • #917
    jimmycrackcorm
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,419 ✭✭✭✭jimmycrackcorm


    The sight of innocent people with their hands in the hair is a lesson


  • #918
    Romantic Rose
    Closed Accounts Posts: 491 ✭✭Romantic Rose


    RoboKlopp wrote: »
    Intolerance is also backward. More so to be honest.

    I had family in the UK during the 70s when the IRA were bombing it. The Irish were hated over the there by a lot of people. Going by your logic, they've have been deported.

    Itd be great if everything was black and white and so simple to fix. Unfortunately not.

    Tolerance is just as bad.

    Sure just ignore it and do nothing then. Let these atrocities keep happening and happening and happening.


  • #919
    DeanAustin
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,885 ✭✭✭DeanAustin


    AudreyHepburn wrote: »
    But they don't want to be British, they want to be part of an ultra conservative extremist Muslim caliphate. So why not send them back to one?

    Because they are British and no Middle Eastern country will accept citizens from another country suspected of terrorism. What you're suggesting is pie in the sky.


  • #920
    Neon_Lights
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,426 ✭✭✭Neon_Lights


    Romantic Rose wrote: »
    I think we need to get to the root of the problem and extract it now. The root being Islam and it's backward ideologies. It's just not compatible with our society.

    People arguing that it's not recent Muslim immigrants that are committing these attacks. Isn't that a lot worse because they've lived in a civilised society for a generation or more and they couldn't be integrated and live in a civilised way. Instead they literally want to throw it all back in our faces.

    I believe in multiculturalism but I'd prefer if it was with more likeminded cultures which we already have within Europe and beyond.

    The more I meet people from Muslim backgrounds, the more I believe their religion is completely backward. Their beliefs are just too extreme for us. Why they are so easily influenced is beyond me.

    Thank you have been saying this for months on here and have been condemned for it.

    I wish we had less politically correct morons in this country and across Europe who don't see their lack of governance and total "inclusivity" as leading towards costing lives. A hard stance needs to be taken. Islamic Extremism is not okay.


  • #921
    AudreyHepburn
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,673 ✭✭✭AudreyHepburn


    Phoebas wrote: »
    I'm sure that if you think about it yourself for five seconds, you can figure out why Britain can't send natural born British subjects to an ultra conservative extremist Muslim caliphate.

    I don't see why not if it's where they want to be and where they've probably already been to be trained as extremists.

    But if they can't be sent back for whatever resson then they need to be taken off the streets.


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  • #922
    Really Interested
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,554 ✭✭✭Really Interested


    DeanAustin wrote: »
    Fair point. I still think my argument stands though.

    Investigating everyone who meets those criteria would require a lot of extra police resources.

    Those things are not a crime right now so to go from that to deportation is just not going to happen.

    These people are British, where do you deport them to?

    http://eudo-citizenship.eu/news/citizenship-news/1160-the-new-powers-of-deprivation-of-citizenship-in-the-uk

    The Immigration Act 2014, which received the Royal Assent on 14 May 2014, permits the UK government to remove citizenship from British nationals in some cases where the result will be statelessness. The powers it contains are now part of UK law but will not be implemented until ordered by the Secretary of State.

    http://www.refworld.org/pdfid/58de55ff4.pdf

    A recent decision to remove citizenship


  • #923
    FTA69
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,252 ✭✭✭FTA69


    Romantic Rose wrote: »
    I think we need to get to the root of the problem and extract it now. The root being Islam and it's backward ideologies. It's just not compatible with our society.

    People arguing that it's not recent Muslim immigrants that are committing these attacks. Isn't that a lot worse because they've lived in a civilised society for a generation or more and they couldn't be integrated and live in a civilised way. Instead they literally want to throw it all back in our faces.

    I believe in multiculturalism but I'd prefer if it was with more likeminded cultures which we already have within Europe and beyond.

    The more I meet people from Muslim backgrounds, the more I believe their religion is completely backward. Their beliefs are just too extreme for us. Why they are so easily influenced is beyond me.

    5% of the British population are Muslims, the majority of whom were born here and the vast majority who live normal and productive lives here. How are you going to root them out by chance?


  • #924
    Conservative
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 596 ✭✭✭Conservative


    Phoebas wrote: »
    Conservative wrote: »

    If you walk into any halal fast food shop in Ireland (not as common) or the UK you will find it staffed mostly by non-Irish/British Muslims. Why are we allowing such people to remain in our countries? There are plenty of illegals running Halal and Asian food stores here but it's never talked about.

    What's the evidence for that?

    My evidence is from personal experience (namely knowing a landlord of such a place and his experience with them) but even if I am wrong and they are all legal. Whoever presided over them being allowed into the country should be jailed.

    Importing people to fry halal chicken (that nobody cares about or wants). Is that the criteria for entry into one of the most economically beneficial countries in Europe now?


  • #925
    Phoebas
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,371 ✭✭✭Phoebas


    Romantic Rose wrote: »
    Tolerance is just as bad.

    Sure just ignore it and do nothing then. Let these atrocities keep happening and happening and happening.

    If only there was a middle ground!


  • #926
    FTA69
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,252 ✭✭✭FTA69


    Conservative wrote: »
    My evidence is from personal experience (namely knowing a landlord of such a place and his experience with them) but even if I am wrong and they are all legal. Whoever presided over them being allowed into the country should be jailed.

    Importing people to fry halal chicken (that nobody cares about or wants). Is that the criteria for entry into one of the most economically beneficial countries in Europe now?

    Right so you've no evidence at all then. Nice one.


  • #927
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 45,738 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Romantic Rose wrote: »
    Tolerance is just as bad.

    Sure just ignore it and do nothing then. Let these atrocities keep happening and happening and happening.

    Where did I say ignore it? You need to read the thread.


  • #928
    pjohnson
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 25,222 ✭✭✭✭pjohnson


    Phoebas wrote: »
    I'm sure that if you think about it yourself for five seconds, you can figure out why Britain can't send natural born British subjects to an ultra conservative extremist Muslim caliphate.

    You mean natural born British subjects with ultra conservative extremist Muslim beliefs.


  • #929
    AudreyHepburn
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,673 ✭✭✭AudreyHepburn


    DeanAustin wrote: »
    Because they are British and no Middle Eastern country will accept citizens from another country suspected of terrorism. What you're suggesting is pie in the sky.

    Then lock them up.

    I'm sorry but repeatedly saying 'it's not possible to do x because of y' just doesn't cut it when innocent people being maimed and killed every other week.

    What do you suggest we do since clearly know better than the rest of us?


  • #930
    Neon_Lights
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,426 ✭✭✭Neon_Lights


    FTA69 wrote: »
    Right so you've no evidence at all then. Nice one.

    If you walk down talbot St, it paints a pretty clear picture but that's beside the point really


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  • #931
    ancapailldorcha
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 42,166 CMod ✭✭✭✭ancapailldorcha


    FTA69 wrote: »
    5% of the British population are Muslims, the majority of whom were born here and the vast majority who live normal and productive lives here. How are you going to root them out by chance?

    By inflating the state security services to Orwellian levels which, as history has repeatedly shown us has always produced great results. My "Uncle" in London was spouting this claptrap only last week.

    The foreigner residing among you must be treated as your native-born. Love them as yourself, for you were foreigners in Egypt. I am the LORD your God.

    Leviticus 19:34



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