London terror attack confirmed by Met Police

wonderfullife · 04-06-2017 02:07AM

pangbang wrote: »

Get ahead of the inevitable that other countries are going to do anyway, namely, close borders (and that's not just for immigration, its for everything from economy to plain old cultural protectionism).

And for those already here, a severe scrutiny should be cast until terrorism of this kind subsides for a (very) prolonged time.

Its only a start, and it doesn't fix all problems at all. But it is easily the most logical initial step. And as I said above, other countries are going to do it anyway.

Ok so basically you have sweet F all in the way of suggestions other than:

1. Close borders.
2. Stop all immigration.
3. Interrogate all Muslims.

...... ^ ^ .....

1. Umm.

2. Tell that to the hundreds of thousands of Irish who have EMIGRATED in the past however many years. So your policy is nobody leaves and nobody comes in? Or you just want us to be able to leave for elsewhere and nobody comes in?

3. "Scrutiny" on 70,000 Muslims in Ireland? How? Surveillance? Interviews? We have 10,000 Guards.

Pure waffle.

Shurimgreat · 04-06-2017 02:08AM

My point is their ideology is everything modern western civilisation is not.

And they are determined to drag down modern western civilisation in any way possible, mostly by turning the west into a sh*thole where terrorist attacks are a regular occurrence. I suppose they hope we will give up before they do.

tomofson · 04-06-2017 02:11AM

being reported seven people killed, two attackers shot dead, 3 still on the run.

wakka12 · 04-06-2017 02:11AM

shane. wrote: »

They both created equal amounts of fear, so I don't think it's a ridiculous comparison

You think current islamic terrorism is causing equal amounts of fear in europe as the holocaust? Either Im very chill about whats happening right now or you're exaggerating

pangbang · 04-06-2017 02:11AM

wonderfullife wrote: »

Ok so basically you have sweet F all in the way of suggestions other than:

1. Close borders.
2. Stop all immigration.
3. Interrogate all Muslims.

...... ^ ^ .....

1. Umm.

2. Tell that to the hundreds of thousands of Irish who have EMIGRATED in the past however many years. So your policy is nobody leaves and nobody comes in? Or you just want us to be able to leave for elsewhere and nobody comes in?

3. "Scrutiny" on 70,000 Muslims in Ireland? How? Surveillance? Interviews? We have 10,000 Guards.

Pure waffle.

"You have no ideas other than the ideas you stated....pure waffle!"

Maybe youre having a bit of fun. If you read back just a few comments of mine, you're like the embodiment of what I was criticising.

So, at risk of getting an actual answer.......whats your idea to stop all this? Or are you gonna portray another point of mine, namely, "whataboutism, followed up with zero ideas, for the intent of avoiding substance in order to maintain the status quo"

shaunr68 · 04-06-2017 02:13AM

tomofson wrote: »

I think the nazis would of more wanted to preserve western civilization than destroy it. So they would of been wrong.

I think I might have an idea of what you're getting at but just in case, please explain.

Atlantic Dawn · 04-06-2017 02:17AM

Apparently they hired the van, have they not even got the few bob for their own van?

BorneTobyWilde · 04-06-2017 02:17AM

I guess it's impossible to defend what seems to happen in every incident like this
'' they were known to authorities '' and they done nothing, as it's not PC to do so.

Jayop · 04-06-2017 02:17AM

So now it looks like one incident, a van load of gob****es in a van with knives and look at the mayhem and death they caused. The explosions are suggested to have been police controlled explosions so it looks like very basic weapons.

How do you stop that? Pretty much impossible.

gitzy16v · 04-06-2017 02:18AM

drunkmonkey wrote: »

It's coordinated by the UK, have a bit more than a 10 second google into what's happening right now. The English seem to forget there at war.

And the US on behalf of the Saudi's...funny how their Wahabbist preaching is against the countries thats helping them in Yemen...anyway ban on the way good luck

Rjd2 · 04-06-2017 02:20AM

drunkmonkey wrote: »

Stamp out arms sales to Saudi. Stamp out UK genocide in Yemen. They need to bite the hand that feeds but won't.

Very much so, a lot of this goes back to Saudi Arabia who are content to flood Europe with Wahhabism. Yasmin Alibhai-Brown was discussing this in the aftermath of Manchester.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wCrEksY7H4s

Also a reminder as if you did not need it, The Tories can took tough and scapegoat as much as they want, but when tackled with Saudi Arabia they run for the hills.

https://twitter.com/nw_nicholas/status/871148602831319040

Jayop · 04-06-2017 02:20AM

BorneTobyWilde wrote: »

I guess it's impossible to defend what seems to happen in every incident like this
'' they were known to authorities '' and they done nothing, as it's not PC to do so.

It's not about pc. The simple fact is that internment has been shown over and over to create more problems than it solves.

However maybe the laws should be changed that if you are shown in a photo in Syria with weapons and you come back to Europe that could be enough for a conviction.

Internment will create more problems but genuine threats should be locked up or deported of possible.

BorneTobyWilde · 04-06-2017 02:20AM

They probably blew up the guy with the bean tins strapped to him. How do you deal with a man down who is a bomb waiting to blow.
Blow him up I would guess.

tomofson · 04-06-2017 02:23AM

BorneTobyWilde wrote: »

They probably blew up the guy with the bean tins strapped to him. How do you deal with a man down who is a bomb waiting to blow.
Blow him up I would guess.

Thats what I was thinking.

But on a more serious note, how are 3 still on the run when london is the most heavily surveillance'd city on the planet. More CCTV systems covering certain sections of london than some cities have. How have they not caught up with them yet.

pangbang · 04-06-2017 02:24AM

Jayop wrote: »

So now it looks like one incident, a van load of gob****es in a van with knives and look at the mayhem and death they caused. The explosions are suggested to have been police controlled explosions so it looks like very basic weapons.

How do you stop that? Pretty much impossible.

Better just let it continue, huh? Keep criticising ideas that at least have a chance of effect, don't give any ideas yourself, convince people that nothing can be done.

That status quo, eh!

AllForIt · 04-06-2017 02:25AM

shaunr68 wrote: »

The prison system does need to be entirely secular. No imaginary friends, no special foods, you eat what you're given or go hungry. No imaginary friend worshipping books or literature, no prayer rooms or special treatment with regard to clothing. In other words, religion is a privilege and not something that the state should pay for you to adhere to if you're a naughty boy. You are free to worship the deity of your choice so long as you behave yourself but the taxpayer will absolutely not pay for you to have special privileges in prison,.

I was just thinking the same thing myself.

It's unbelievable that Muslims in prison are given a safe place to congregate together, especially in cases that those Muslims are in prison for Islamist related crimes.

The whole idea of prison is that one is barred from interacting with society so it doesn't seem right to me that when in prison one is still able to interact with people of their own kind.

njs030 · 04-06-2017 02:25AM

Jayop wrote: »

It's not about pc. The simple fact is that internment has been shown over and over to create more problems than it solves.

However maybe the laws should be changed that if you are shown in a photo in Syria with weapons and you come back to Europe that could be enough for a conviction.

Internment will create more problems but genuine threats should be locked up or deported of possible.

Perhaps a person travelling to those countries who is on a watch list would need to explain why they were there on their return amd perhaps some kind of check in at a police station for a while after.

There does need to be a level above watching them and waiting but below arresting them for no reason.

British citizens can't be deported.

Jayop · 04-06-2017 02:25AM

BorneTobyWilde wrote: »

They probably blew up the guy with the bean tins strapped to him. How do you deal with a man down who is a bomb waiting to blow.
Blow him up I would guess.

I don't understand controlled explosions. Surely if someone has a bomb with nails and crap then exploding it will give the desired result for him anyway. My idea of a controlled explosion would be one that's maybe covered with a lead blanket or something.

pangbang · 04-06-2017 02:26AM

Jayop wrote: »

It's not about pc. The simple fact is that internment has been shown over and over to create more problems than it solves.

However maybe the laws should be changed that if you are shown in a photo in Syria with weapons and you come back to Europe that could be enough for a conviction.

Internment will create more problems but genuine threats should be locked up or deported of possible.

Okay I take back what I said to an extent, at least youre giving some idea there. I think it should be a lot harsher though.

Jayop · 04-06-2017 02:26AM

pangbang wrote: »

Better just let it continue, huh? Keep criticising ideas that at least have a chance of effect, don't give any ideas yourself, convince people that nothing can be done.

That status quo, eh!

Yep that's what I said.

wonderfullife · 04-06-2017 02:26AM

pangbang wrote: »

So, at risk of getting an actual answer.......whats your idea to stop all this?

Can't be 'stopped' no more than domestic robbery, drug dealing and murder can be stopped.

Things can be done to combat the problem of Radical Islamic Terror:

1. Online warfare: Disrupt and diminish the flow of ISIS propaganda across the internet - make it harder for them to spread messages of hate. CIA and MI6 are already engaged in this and they need to do more.

2. Keep bombing ISIS targets.

3. Accept more refugees from Syria, mainly children and women who are statistically less likely to be involved in radical attacks in the west. Vetted of course but we need to do more to relieve the bottlenecks in the region.

People are being sucked into the vacuum and being recruited by ISIS because they can't escape them. Give them easier ways out.

4. Pie-in-the-sky but if Israel stopped building settlements and gave the Palestinians back some of their land, it'd help A LOT.

5. Stop arming Saudi Arabia. I'd personally like to see sanctions against Saudi Arabia in the way there are sanctions against Russia.

3 might seem counter-intuitive but I believe holistically it'll improve matters.

4 & 5 are total fantasy.

In reality, 1 & 2 are definitely things we need to do more of.

Jayop · 04-06-2017 02:27AM

notjustsweet wrote: »

Perhaps a person travelling to those countries who is on a watch list would need to explain why they were there on their return amd perhaps some kind of check in at a police station for a while after.

There does need to be a level above watching them and waiting but below arresting them for no reason.

British citizens can't be deported.

If someone isn't a journalist or working for a charity they have no reason to be in the likes of Syria.

Can a British (or Irish) citizen be denied reentry?

pangbang · 04-06-2017 02:27AM

Jayop wrote: »

Yep that's what I said.

Its not what you said, but it is absolutely the end result inferred by what you said.

But that was the one particular comment, and you made a more agreeable one after that (agreeable to me, of course)

Hammer89 · 04-06-2017 02:29AM

Was the gunfire on London bridge significant? That's all I want to know but the witness on Sky News hasn't mentioned yet.

Jayop · 04-06-2017 02:30AM

wonderfullife wrote: »

Can't be 'stopped' no more than domestic robbery, drug dealing and murder can be stopped.

Things can be done to combat the problem of Radical Islamic Terror:

1. Online warfare: Disrupt and diminish the flow of ISIS propaganda across the internet - make it harder for them to spread messages of hate. CIA and MI6 are already engaged in this and they need to do more.

2. Keep bombing ISIS targets.

3. Accept more refugees from Syria, mainly children and women who are statistically less likely to be involved in radical attacks in the west. Vetted of course but we need to do more to relieve the bottlenecks in the region.

People are being sucked into the vacuum and being recruited by ISIS because they can't escape them. Give them easier ways out.

4. Pie-in-the-sky but if Israel stopped building settlements and gave the Palestinians back some of their land, it'd help A LOT.

5. Stop arming Saudi Arabia. I'd personally like to see sanctions against Saudi Arabia in the way there are sanctions against Russia.

3 might seem counter-intuitive but I believe holistically it'll improve matters.

4 & 5 are total fantasy.

In reality, 1 & 2 are definitely things we need to do more of.

I agree with a lot of this. Add to that clamping down on EU born people re entering the EU after going places where they learn the tools of their trade.

Mountainsandh · 04-06-2017 02:30AM

wonderfullife wrote: »

Ok so basically you have sweet F all in the way of suggestions other than:

1. Close borders.
2. Stop all immigration.
3. Interrogate all Muslims.

...... ^ ^ .....

1. Umm.

2. Tell that to the hundreds of thousands of Irish who have EMIGRATED in the past however many years. So your policy is nobody leaves and nobody comes in? Or you just want us to be able to leave for elsewhere and nobody comes in?

3. "Scrutiny" on 70,000 Muslims in Ireland? How? Surveillance? Interviews? We have 10,000 Guards.

Pure waffle.

So your policy is nobody leaves and nobody comes in? Or you just want us to be able to leave for elsewhere and nobody comes in?
How is this an issue ?
Obviously anyone who wants to leave is free to do so, provided they're not escaping a crime. Very tight restrictions on who comes in, Visa type restrictions on most countries, unrestricted access for European and Irish ; of course this is more efficient when all countries follow the same restrictions.

3. "Scrutiny" on 70,000 Muslims in Ireland? How? Surveillance? Interviews? We have 10,000 Guards.
You have to start somewhere, and possibly the resources not spent on welcoming immigrants might pay for some more gardai.

Is it better to let the number inflate from immigration, and do nothing ?
Yes surveillance, interviews, of course. That's already being done with great success, kudos to the gardai.

Jayop · 04-06-2017 02:32AM

pangbang wrote: »

Its not what you said, but it is absolutely the end result inferred by what you said.

But that was the one particular comment, and you made a more agreeable one after that (agreeable to me, of course)

My post you took issue with was meaning, in the here and now of the moment how do you stop anyone, Islamic terrorist wannabes or just some random psycho nutters doing that with a van and a few knives?

I wasn't referring to the bigger issue or stopping Islamic extremists.

njs030 · 04-06-2017 02:32AM

Jayop wrote: »

If someone isn't a journalist or working for a charity they have no reason to be in the likes of Syria.

Can a British (or Irish) citizen be denied reentry?

Into their own country? No I don't think so.
A person with dual citizenship can be stripped of one and deported to the other but if you hold only one I doubt you can be left with nowhere to live.

Arrested and sent to prison if they have no good reason for being there and it can be proven they have malicious intent when it's on top of being on a watch list etc.

maizes · 04-06-2017 02:32AM

simon coveney is off to see his friends at the bilderberg group tomorrow

luckily he's the housing list minister

wink wink

Jayop · 04-06-2017 02:33AM

Hammer89 wrote: »

Was the gunfire on London bridge significant? That's all I want to know but the witness on Sky News hasn't mentioned yet.

For now it seems the gunfire was just from the police. That could be wrong obviously

London terror attack confirmed by Met Police

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