Stallions

tatoo · 14-01-2017 03:29PM

I see that point winner American, by Malinas, is just after winning a nice Listed Novices Chase in Warwick for Harry Fry.

tryfix · 23-03-2017 04:51PM

Time to bump this again.

A big year for Dubawi gets going in Meydan where Postponed seeks to get back on track and where inexplicably to me Zarak is favoured to beat the likes of Ribchester. Dubawi has been lighting up the sales ring with multimillion yearlings to beat the band, it's still going to be very hard for him to make his mark with his 3yos as his stock tend to need time to reach their potential.

The big battle again will be Dubawi vs Galileo, hard to see Sea The Stars matching his own stellar year last year but again he should be knocking on the door and maybe the Frankel hype can continue to be based on knocking in lots of beautifully bred winners. If the Frankels improve with age then he really will be an exciting stallion.

Danehill Dancer has passed away and his understated brilliance as a stallion will be missed but he'll live on in the broodmare sire tables for many years to come.

Camelot seems to be the hype stallion this year, his stock have been selling well and he's the last major prospect for passing on the Montjeu stallion line in the world of Flat racing. He's a strange prospect, on balance he's going to find it very hard to make a big impact but Coolmore may be able to make him as O'Brien has 8 of his in training and Joseph has a few nice ones as well

Gringo180 · 24-03-2017 12:34AM

Whats you opinion on Kingman as a stallion, do you think he will be a success?

Lt Dan · 24-03-2017 01:45PM

New Approach seems to have gone missing a bit. I see Juddmonte have used him for some of the 2 year olds due to race this season

He had a great start with horses in 2012 and 2013 and then went missing . I know he often goes to Oz but what give yo?

tryfix · 24-03-2017 02:51PM

Gringo180 wrote: »

Whats you opinion on Kingman as a stallion, do you think he will be a success?

It's a bit hard to define success when you're talking about a horse like Kingman. What other European horse has started off at £55,000 and had a stream of black type or black type producers sent to him? Only Frankel and Sea The Stars in recent times spring to mind and Kingman wasn't within a stone of that pair.

Based on what has been sent his way and his own speedy pedigree he surely can't fail to provide a stream of classy 7-8f horses. I loved him as a physical specimen and his racing career looks pretty decent in hindsight. His pedigree ( while very tasty with his Dam being a French Guineas winner ) lacks just a little depth. Zenda his Dam hasn't produced much else of note and she's had a lot of excellent chances.

He'll almost definitely make it as a stallion, but he ain't going to be a Champion Stallion.

tryfix · 24-03-2017 03:21PM

Lt Dan wrote: »

New Approach seems to have gone missing a bit. I see Juddmonte have used him for some of the 2 year olds due to race this season

He had a great start with horses in 2012 and 2013 and then went missing . I know he often goes to Oz but what give yo?

They dogged his fee putting it up to £80,000 in 2014 and 2015, it's now back down to £30,000 which isn't bad for a sire with 6 Group 1 winners. His first crop flattered him a little in that it made it look like he could supply bucket loads of classic winners. He hasn't come anywhere near matching that first crop since and is paying the price, he's still producing some classy types but he's understandably gone out of fashion as there are now an awful lot more Galileo stallions for him to compete with.

Lt Dan · 24-03-2017 03:55PM

tryfix wrote: »

They dogged his fee putting it up to £80,000 in 2014 and 2015, it's now back down to £30,000 which isn't bad for a sire with 6 Group 1 winners. His first crop flattered him a little in that it made it look like he could supply bucket loads of classic winners. He hasn't come anywhere near matching that first crop since and is paying the price, he's still producing some classy types but he's understandably gone out of fashion as there are now an awful lot more Galileo stallions for him to compete with.

From 80 k down to 30 k in 1 year? I thought Darley were a little smarter than that. It was 50 k in 2013, why has it dropped so low to 30K?

I have seen other horses of his, and was saddened by their performances

Are Godolpin even bothering to use him? Send a few to Jim Bolger?

tryfix · 24-03-2017 05:37PM

Lt Dan wrote: »

From 80 k down to 30 k in 1 year? I thought Darley were a little smarter than that. It was 50 k in 2013, why has it dropped so low to 30K?

I have seen other horses of his, and was saddened by their performances

Are Godolpin even bothering to use him? Send a few to Jim Bolger?

He was £80k for 2014 and 2015, then he was £60k for 2016 and now he's half that at £30k.

His best bred crops are now 3yo and 2yo so there may be some excitement yet from him. I don't think his stock have been that disappointing at all, there's always a nice one about but unfortunately there's zero chance of his emulating his first crop's 3 Royal Ascot 2yo winners and 2 Classic winners from that crop. There's just way too many beautifully bred horses around currently for the likes of New Approach to get back to the triumphs of his early days.

Lt Dan · 24-03-2017 06:48PM

tryfix wrote: »

He was £80k for 2014 and 2015, then he was £60k for 2016 and now he's half that at £30k.

His best bred crops are now 3yo and 2yo so there may be some excitement yet from him. I don't think his stock have been that disappointing at all, there's always a nice one about but unfortunately there's zero chance of his emulating his first crop's 3 Royal Ascot 2yo winners and 2 Classic winners from that crop. There's just way too many beautifully bred horses around currently for the likes of New Approach to get back to the triumphs of his early days.

Godolpin /Darley seem to be an odd bunch. It is not like their sires are rubbish

Other owners/trainers have got winners out of some of their sires over the years . eg Dubawi & Shamardal

DieselPowered · 30-03-2017 10:50AM

Arrogate

- Just won the Dubai World Cup last Saturday 25th March 2017, started in last and won by over 2.5 lengths.

(Bred by an Irishman)

.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0yp2Gns4hNk

.

kksaints · 08-04-2017 11:04PM

Unusual breeding for one of Murtagh's horses in the opener at Lepardstown today. Regnum who finished tenth is down as Ukrainian bred. I have never seen that before in the British isles. I remember Tom George had some Polish and Czech breds jumpers at the start of last decade one of whom won a Sunaillance hurdle. Is this one of the more unusual countries seen here or does anyone else remember other unusual countries?

Black_Ninja · 09-04-2017 02:04AM

kksaints wrote: »

Unusual breeding for one of Murtagh's horses in the opener at Lepardstown today. Regnum who finished tenth is down as Ukrainian bred. I have never seen that before in the British isles. I remember Tom George had some Polish and Czech breds jumpers at the start of last decade one of whom won a Sunaillance hurdle. Is this one of the more unusual countries seen here or does anyone else remember other unusual countries?

Willie Mullins has a Charming Groom half sister to Douvan that is down as Tunisian Bred

http://bloodstock.racingpost.com/news/bloodstock/douvan-success-brings-tunisian-filly-to-ireland/2016166/

diomed · 08-05-2017 06:59PM

Galileo (1998) is nineteen this year.
Australia and Camelot look like Coolmore's replacements for their number one stallion.

One stallion I like is Adlerflug (2004) who has a very similar pedigree to Galileo.
Adlerflug won the German Derby in 2007 by 7 lengths.
In 2016 he had three horses in the Longine's World rankings: Savoir Vivre (116); Iquitos (118); Ito (117).
I would be interested in any of his offspring running at 12f+.

tryfix · 13-05-2017 12:06PM

There have been a few Deep Impacts running in the UK without making much of an impact. Now that O'brien has some of his progeny from such top mares as Maybe ( Pavlenko) and Peeping Fawn ( Wisconcin) who have been given the slow introduction that seems to work so well for O'brien we could be on the verge of Coolmore creating a Deep Impact stallion of their own for the European market. It might take a while to hit the target but breeding quality mares to him will eventually deliver.

tryfix · 16-05-2017 01:25PM

Watching the two Nathaniel's running so well in English Oaks and Derby Trials made me have a think about how the Nathaniels are progressing while the Frankels seem to have hit early heights and stalled.

So I compared the career progress of the best five of each sire on rpr figures to see if there was something in it.

Nathaniel

Enable.... 83, 99, 109

Enjoy Vijay.... 66, 96, 104 ( in Germany)

Falcon Flight... 73, 83, 103 ( in France)

Glencadam Glory... 83, 84, 85, 102

Frankel

Dream Castle... 89, 108, 113

Eminent.... 84, 113, 111,

Queen Kindly... 82, 101, 96,112, 94, 98, 83

Soul Stirring... 112, 112, 109 ( in Japan)

Fair Eva.... 96, 110, 107, 104, 103

It doesn't make pretty reading for Frankel but points up the potential of the Nathaniels

diomed · 18-05-2017 03:10AM

Today after weeks of trying I managed to buy "Give a Man a Horse" by Dianne Haworth (revised edition).
I could only find one online book store willing to ship outside Australia/New Zealand.
It is a book about the New Zealand super sire Sir Tristram (1971-1997), Cambridge Stud, and Sir Patrick Hogan.
Sir Tristram's stud fee went from $1,200 to $200,000.
Sir Patrick bought him on pedigree alone. He said he would not have bought him on appearance as he had conformation defects. He won only two from nineteen starts.

tryfix · 02-06-2017 07:34PM

Frankel badly needs a win tomorrow after Nathaniel wiped his eye, fortunately for him Gosden seems to be in the form to deliver it.

tryfix · 11-06-2017 06:35AM

Dubawi firing in a 4 timer yesterday, sometimes he looks worth his huge fee. He's certainly worth it at the sales ring where he's had a glut of million + pound yearlings in 2016.

His tend to look brilliant but they don't quite seem to have the consistent classic brilliance required for a conveyor belt of stars.

Is there just a little something lacking in his arsenal as a stallion. A little lack of stamina in some of his stock and the slower maturing nature or soft ground favouring of many of his stock?

zimmermania · 12-06-2017 10:37AM

Intello's first runner won in France and they are making very fancy prices and it will be interesting to see how he fares out as the season progresses and we get some idea how his first crop are performing.

diomed · 12-06-2017 02:25PM

There is a full page ad for Pour Moi on the back of The Irish Field this weekend "Proven Gr 1 sire by Montjeu".

tryfix · 12-06-2017 05:00PM

diomed wrote: »

There is a full page ad for Pour Moi on the back of The Irish Field this weekend "Proven Gr 1 sire by Montjeu".

He has a decent winners to runners ratio but was he ever supported in the manner of a stallion that they wanted to make successful? Bit of a weird stallion in that it's hard to get to grips with a middle distance stallion that gets sprinters and milers as well as typical stayers.

As far as I can remember O'Brien didn't seem to have many/any? of his in training in his first crop phase and Wings Of Eagles himself is a one off high priced £220,000k I think yearling that was too exceptional in quality to pass up.

They've got Camelots in training so he'll be given the chance, Australia as well seems to be on their favoured lists while the chances that they'll have a batch of Ruler Of The World's in the yard are limited.

tryfix · 21-06-2017 04:27AM

Canford Cliffs - who found himself in the winner's enclosure at Royal Ascot on three occasions - is to leave Coolmore to join the roster at Highlands Stud in South Africa from 2018.

https://www.racingpost.com/bloodstock/bloodstock-news/canford-cliffs-to-join-highlands-stud-roster/290050

Another decent stallion gets cut from the Coolmore roster, to be replaced by what?

Andalucia · 21-06-2017 10:02PM

Churchill, miler for a miler

tryfix · 21-06-2017 10:21PM

Andalucia wrote: »

Churchill, miler for a miler

True, but that's 3 x Galileo stallions who are 2,000 Guineas winners ( The Ghurka ( French) and Gleneagles ) to find mares for at Coolmore plus all the other Galileos in Coolmore and all the ones in the pipeline.

Canford Cliffs was an outcross stallion for them, but they don't seem bothered about that. War Front and Scat Daddy seem to be the sort of limited "outcross" stallion lines they are into.

Nulty · 23-06-2017 02:11PM

Some record Scat Dadddy has at the Royal meeting. 6/10

https://www.racingpost.com/bloodstock/bloodstock-world/sioux-nation-shows-his-sire-is-the-daddy-of-them-all/290409

tryfix · 02-07-2017 04:40PM

Dubawi's season bursts into life with a Gp 1 double today in France ( Zarak finally gets one on Grand Prix Saint Cloud ) and Ireland ( Nezwaah takes the 10f Pretty Poll) .

Those Dubawis are beautiful specimens, first thing I thought when I saw Nezwaah pulling up was that lady needs to go to Galileo when she retires.

tryfix · 02-07-2017 04:49PM

Camelot got off the mark in France today in a 6f maiden with Stella Di Camelot.

tryfix · 02-07-2017 09:42PM

tryfix wrote: »

Dubawi's season bursts into life with a Gp 1 double today in France ( Zarak finally gets one on Grand Prix Saint Cloud ) and Ireland ( Nezwaah takes the 10f Pretty Poll) .

Those Dubawis are beautiful specimens, first thing I thought when I saw Nezwaah pulling up was that lady needs to go to Galileo when she retires.

I hadn't realised that Dubawi was so unbelievably dear to use. Ye'd be a long time getting your £250,000 back winning egg and spoon races in the UK

Dubawi, a 15-year-old son of Dubai Millennium, stood the 2017 breeding season at a career-high fee of £250,000. His other top-level performers include the likes of Wuheida, Postponed, New Bay, Makfi and Night Of Thunder.

https://www.racingpost.com/bloodstock/bloodstock-world/big-race-double-sees-darley-s-dubawi-hits-30-top-flight-winners/291542

diomed · 02-07-2017 10:33PM

Five top level offspring of Dubawi mentioned above.
The Racing Posts sire stats shows 761 offspring.

The advertising is the same for all sires, mention the few good runners.
90-95% of mare owners get an average result for their money.

Harry Angstrom · 02-07-2017 10:56PM

Considering Sheikh Mohammed boycotted the best of Coolmore over the years, he's been fortunate to stumble upon Dubawi as a successful sire. Ifraaj is doing reasonably okay for them as well but it remains to be seen if the likes of Teofilo and New Approach can do much for them. Personally I think he was mad to boycott the likes of Galileo, and the of lack of quality Group One Godolphin horses in recent times is fairly apparent.

Stallions

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