Leinster Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread VIII: May the Fourth Star Be With You!

Buer · 25-05-2017 10:19AM

blackdog1 wrote: »

I think what's amazing is he doesn't look like he slowed down speed wise at all. He is a fast man for his size. His problem was never he wasn't fast it was he didn't have that massive acceleration you need to be a good carrier like Healy and Furlong. He definitely had another year or 2 in those legs but I'd say he just didn't want to play for another club.

He said in a recent interview that it would have taken a pretty serious pay offer from abroad for him to take a contract elsewhere. He has a young family and roots set down in Dublin now. Combine that with the fact that he's a smart cookie and has a plan for a life after rugby that he's already pursuing.

I'm much happier to see that than guys like Stringer or Mike McCarthy who are well into their thirties looking for a contract elsewhere to hang in there as their talents are waning potentially as they don't have a plan for after rugby.

thomond2006 · 25-05-2017 10:29AM

DGRulz wrote: »

Apologies that should say Ligind, I'll fix it now.

There's a lot more on that post you need to fix! :mad:

Sangre · 25-05-2017 10:30AM

awec wrote: »

Has this been posted?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XzfoG9-1P-c

A quite frankly outstanding tribute to Mike Ross from the official Leinster youtube channel. :pac: :pac:

What an end to it as well. That scrum against Northhampton was huge and the moment I knew the game was won.

DGRulz · 25-05-2017 10:34AM

thomond2006 wrote: »

There's a lot more on that post you need to fix! :mad:

Again you're correct. Saying John Hayes = Ligind is a complete falsehood but I needed something to base my logic off.

Perhaps I should have gone with Tony Buckly = Ligind instead :pac::pac::pac:

thomond2006 · 25-05-2017 10:35AM

DGRulz wrote: »

Again you're correct. Saying John Hayes = Ligind is a complete falsehood but I needed something to base my logic off.

Perhaps I should have gone with Tony Buckly = Ligind instead :pac::pac::pac:

I hate humanity.

DGRulz · 25-05-2017 10:43AM

So, now that I've ruined thomond's day ... Did anyone catch Mike McCarthy on the 6 o'clock show last night? Only caught the end of the interview.

Bazzo · 25-05-2017 11:16AM

Didn't realise the coaching ticket wasn't confirmed yet?

http://www.the42.ie/leinster-leo-cullen-scarlets-pro12-shane-horgan-3407590-May2017/?utm_source=twitter_self

.ak · 25-05-2017 11:17AM

Buer wrote: »

I really hope not. Easy to forget Horgan was a 13 when he first came through with Leinster....then a 12...and lastly a winger. Byrne is hit and miss on the wing defensively. At 13, things could get ugly.

BoardsMember wrote: »

Adam Byrne can't defend properly at wing, I'd hate to see him try to defend the 13 channel, pretty much the hardest defensive position on the pitch.

Actually Byrne has played a signaficint amount of rugby at 13; afaik he played primarily there for Naas and at underage level. In fact, he's probably more naturally a centre than a winger, which may explain why he doesn't look natural in defence. I do agree though, he'd probably be in deep water defending at 13 at this level now as he's played very little at centre recently and defending that channel is all about confidence which he seems short in when without the ball (that half hit on J.Davies that led to Scarlets first try was a good example, he was so tentative about joining the line, he had to wait for Carbery to push him in, who was also slow to react coming across)

Also I disagree about 13 being the hardest position to defend. That's a bit of a myth; you have to be a sound technical tackler and you need to tackle a lot more (but not as much as the 12), but I think defending on the wing is far more complex and there's a lot more to do off the ball and sometimes you need defend just by being in the right position early.

(You can tell I'm a winger, right?)

irishbucsfan · 25-05-2017 11:25AM

He was considered a back 3 player all the way up at underage level

EDIT: Also you need to be a hell of a lot more than a sound tackler to be a good defensive 13.

25-05-2017 11:29AM

.ak wrote: »

Actually Byrne has played a signaficint amount of rugby at 13; afaik he played primarily there for Naas and at underage level. In fact, he's probably more naturally a centre than a winger, which may explain why he doesn't look natural in defence. I do agree though, he'd probably be in deep water defending at 13 at this level now as he's played very little at centre recently and defending that channel is all about confidence which he seems short in when without the ball (that half hit on J.Davies that led to Scarlets first try was a good example, he was so tentative about joining the line, he had to wait for Carbery to push him in, who was also slow to react coming across)

Also I disagree about 13 being the hardest position to defend. That's a bit of a myth; you have to be a sound technical tackler and you need to tackle a lot more (but not as much as the 12), but I think defending on the wing is far more complex and there's a lot more to do off the ball and sometimes you need defend just by being in the right position early.

(You can tell I'm a winger, right?)

On difficulty defending it's 9, 12 and 15 for me.

9's have so much to do without ball in hand at the breakdown and set piece and it's an area a lot of teams exploit against inexperienced or tired 9's.

15's are either joining the line and doing the same job as a wing, are sweeping cover or are in a 1 v 1 situations. Absolute hiding to nothing.

12 is just a difficult channel as you are having to read the first passage of a play and are often taking down big carriers by yourself.

13 is a challenge because that's where the drift starts and there are a lot of options both individually and tactically in defence for a 13 to consider. It's what sets Payne apart from Ringrose for example.

At pro level I don't think any position is a gimme from a defence perspective, but 9,12 and 15 are what I would consider the hardest to both learn and deal with physically.

BoardsMember · 25-05-2017 12:07PM

Deleted User wrote: »

On difficulty defending it's 9, 12 and 15 for me.

9's have so much to do without ball in hand at the breakdown and set piece and it's an area a lot of teams exploit against inexperienced or tired 9's.

15's are either joining the line and doing the same job as a wing, are sweeping cover or are in a 1 v 1 situations. Absolute hiding to nothing.

12 is just a difficult channel as you are having to read the first passage of a play and are often taking down big carriers by yourself.

13 is a challenge because that's where the drift starts and there are a lot of options both individually and tactically in defence for a 13 to consider. It's what sets Payne apart from Ringrose for example.

At pro level I don't think any position is a gimme from a defence perspective, but 9,12 and 15 are what I would consider the hardest to both learn and deal with physically.

I'm going to go with BOD on this - 13 is the most difficult channel. I'm talking complexity here, not volume of traffic or physicality. I dont think anything else comes close really, probably 15 is next nearest.

Buer · 25-05-2017 12:24PM

There isn't a position in the back line where you'll be required to make the decisions that you are at 13 whilst covering such an area of space. Other positions may be more exposed in terms of having to make a tackle to prevent a try or may be more prone to dealing with monster forwards running at you but they don't have the same level of judgement required.

There's a reason the 13 is used as the shooter in defensive patterns. It's the bridging point between the inside and outside backs and define whether the opposition are going to be able to get around the outside the line. If you get caught out of position and you're judgement is off, it generally will lead to big problems.

Winger is a difficult position in so far as they are isolated and need to make their tackles. But they're not required to make anywhere near the number of tackles nor are they required to make the 50/50 calls. If a winger shoots, it's because they're outnumbered and have to. Wingers have two very important things that the outside centre doesn't, the sideline and the cavalry. You don't get a chance to be resuced by the touch judge or a corner flagger if you're exposed at centre. But it's a nightmare in terms of positioning, dropping deep, coming up to join the line etc. Wingers probably need to be more tuned in to what's going on in the opposition back line as anyone if not more.

molloyjh · 25-05-2017 12:57PM

I know we shouldn't give Franno the attention he craves, but the sheer number and level of inaccuracies in his latest article is enough for a bit of a chuckle. The guy really doesn't have the first clue what he's on about.

http://www.independent.ie/sport/rugby/leinster-rugby/neil-francis-explains-how-leinsters-disgraceful-defeat-to-scarlets-could-seriously-affect-their-champions-cup-hopes-35754106.html

Former Former · 25-05-2017 01:29PM

molloyjh wrote: »

I know we shouldn't give Franno the attention he craves, but the sheer number and level of inaccuracies in his latest article is enough for a bit of a chuckle. The guy really doesn't have the first clue what he's on about.

http://www.independent.ie/sport/rugby/leinster-rugby/neil-francis-explains-how-leinsters-disgraceful-defeat-to-scarlets-could-seriously-affect-their-champions-cup-hopes-35754106.html

That's brilliant. The real situation is quite literally the exact opposite of what he thinks it is.

Any article entitled "Neil Francis explains..." is never going to end well. He's a total fraud.

irishbucsfan · 25-05-2017 01:32PM

I wish he was a fraud, because there'd be a chance that he can be found out and gotten rid of. Unfortunately I fear he is perfectly qualified to do what he does...

stephen_n · 25-05-2017 01:44PM

Why did I bother reading that

molloyjh · 25-05-2017 01:46PM

stephen_n wrote: »

Why did I bother reading that

For your amusement. It's genuinely embarrassing that a former rugby player and current rugby journalist has such an incredibly poor grasp on the basics of the biggest club competition that they cover. And that's good for a laugh.

Riskymove · 25-05-2017 01:56PM

He got the Pro12 seeding right but is very wrong about Leinster's place in the European Draw

Indeed, given how the draw works Leinster are one of the few teams with certainity of their place in the draw

Sanjuro · 25-05-2017 02:24PM

Here, give Franno a break. He's just doing his best to fill the 'staggeringly ignorant and ill-informed' void left by George Hook after he quit the RTE gig.

crisco10 · 25-05-2017 02:34PM

How does it actually work so?

Bazzo · 25-05-2017 02:34PM

Sanjuro wrote: »

Here, give Franno a break. He's just doing his best to fill the 'staggeringly ignorant and ill-informed' void left by George Hook after he quit the RTE gig.

I think "quit" might be kind on old Hooky. I've a feeling he managed to teeter over the edge he had been balancing on for so long where people stopped tuning in to laugh at him and people who used to watch started turning it off because of him.

Sanjuro · 25-05-2017 02:39PM

Bazzo wrote: »

I think "quit" might be kind on old Hooky. I've a feeling he managed to teeter over the edge he had been balancing on for so long where people stopped tuning in to laugh at him and people who used to watch started turning it off because of him.

Says it all really-

https://vine.co/v/O9EUELn2qwe/embed/postcard

stephen_n · 25-05-2017 02:41PM

molloyjh wrote: »

For your amusement. It's genuinely embarrassing that a former rugby player and current rugby journalist has such an incredibly poor grasp on the basics of the biggest club competition that they cover. And that's good for a laugh.

But my mother told me not to make fun of people of low intelligence, it's not nice.

errlloyd · 25-05-2017 02:46PM

crisco10 wrote: »

How does it actually work so?

It is complicated. There are 4 tiers, each tier comprising of 5 teams. Each team is seeded from 1-6 (or 7) the easiest place to start, is at the bottom, we know most of Tier 4 already - it'll be the playoff winner, treviso, and the 3 6th place teams.

Treviso (7th)
Northampton (or Stade) (PO winner)
Glasgow (6th)
Castre (6th)
Quins (6th)

Now Tier three becomes a little more challenging, but all 3 5th place teams we defo know. It will also contain 2 out of 3 fourth placed teams. This will be drawn randomly. The fourth placed teams are Ospreys, Leicster and Probably Racing. Let's go ahead and stick Ospreys and Leicster in there.

Ulster (5th)
Montpellier (5th)
Bath (5th)
Ospreys (4th)
Leicster (4th)

Tier 2 will definitely get the other fourth placed team, all the third placed teams, and one second placed team. We will populate it as thus, and for arguments sake, we will put Scarlets in there too.

Racing (4th)
Toulon (3rd)
Leinster (3rd)
Saracens (3rd)
Scarlets (2nd)

Tier 1 will then be the three first placed teams, and the other two runners up.

Clermont (1st)
La Rochelle (2nd)
Munster (1st)
Wasps (1st)
Exeter (2nd)

So this is a realistic set up for the tiers. Each pool gets one team from each tier. Now the rules Franno said are true. Leinster can't get Ulster or Munster, and Scarlets can't Ospreys. No pool can have 3 from one league.

But that situation is above is super realistic, and in that situation it is IMPOSSIBLE for Leinster to get either Toulon, Racing, Saracens or Scarlets. Which is the bit Franno ****ed up.

Our best pool? La Rochelle, Leinster, Bath, Treviso.
Our worst pool? Clermont, Leinster, Montpellier, Quins.

*These are based on my guesses of how the T14 Semis, Pro12 final and AP final will go - and based on randomly pushing a 2nd seed and a 4th seed into tier two.

molloyjh · 25-05-2017 02:48PM

crisco10 wrote: »

How does it actually work so?

There are 4 tiers of 5 teams.

Tier 1 has the winners of the 3 leagues + 2 of the runners up.

Tier 2 has the 3rd runner up + all there 3rd seeds + one 4th seed

Tier 3 has the other two 4th seeds + all three 5th seeds

Tier 4 has all three 6th seeds + the Italian team + the play-off winner

As Leinster lost their semi-final but finished ahead of Ospreys (who lost the other semi-final) in the table then Leinster are third seed in the Pro12 behind Munster and Scarlets. The same is then true of Saracens who lost their semi-final but placed ahead of Leicester so are third seed.

There are then 5 pools of 4 teams in the Champions Cup. One team from each tier.

errlloyd · 25-05-2017 02:58PM

Looking at that now - if it pans out as a I predict it will regarding the top two tiers. Leinster and Munster will be in much of a muchness of a position really.

Munster won't want Saracens or Toulon, but wouldn't mind Scarlets (Exeter / La Rochelle) or Racing (Ospreys or Leinster)

But Leinster will only really be avoid Wasps and Clermont. Exeter, Scarlets or La Rochelle probably don't worry us either.

And the best part about Clermont or La Rochelle is either would be a great away trip.

crisco10 · 25-05-2017 03:09PM

errlloyd wrote: »

Looking at that now - if it pans out as a I predict it will regarding the top two tiers. Leinster and Munster will be in much of a muchness of a position really.

Munster won't want Saracens or Toulon, but wouldn't mind Scarlets (Exeter / La Rochelle) or Racing (Ospreys or Leinster)

But Leinster will only really be avoid Wasps and Clermont. Exeter, Scarlets or La Rochelle probably don't worry us either.

And the best part about Clermont or La Rochelle is either would be a great away trip.

That's frequently the case really tbh, the "teams to avoid" get sprinkled across Tier 1 and Tier 2, so whether you are in pot 1 or 2, it can make little difference. Its all just luck of the draw.
Then in many ways the real "groups of death" are determined by tier 3 and 4. I.e getting Quins instead of Treviso. And Weren't munster 3rd seeds last year?

In Summary, Franno talking out his ar$e again. and re-reading it (why do it I do it to myself?!) even what he says doesn't really make sense with itself. Basically, everyone will end up in Pot 3, and pot 3 can be drawn with each other, ipso facto Leinster will get a nightmare draw?

errlloyd · 25-05-2017 03:15PM

crisco10 wrote: »

That's frequently the case really tbh, the "teams to avoid" get sprinkled across Tier 1 and Tier 2, so whether you are in pot 1 or 2, it can make little difference. Its all just luck of the draw.
Then in many ways the real "groups of death" are determined by tier 3 and 4. I.e getting Quins instead of Treviso. And Weren't munster 3rd seeds last year?

In Summary, Franno talking out his ar$e again.

My predicted "worst possible group" is Clermont, Saracens, Ulster and Glasgow. That is four teams of quarter final quality.

sydthebeat · 25-05-2017 03:29PM

I'd love another shot at toulon to be honest.

molloyjh · 25-05-2017 03:42PM

An interesting little bit of trivia is that should Toulon lose their semi-final against La Rochelle then no top tier team will have won the European Cup since Munster in 2008. In fact it's looking quite likely that only 2 of the 5 top tier teams will be former champions; Munster and Wasps. All the winners of the last 7 titles will be sitting in tier 2 more than likely. Toulouse will be the only winner of the last 9 not to be in tier 2. They'll be in the Challenge Cup instead. Now obviously the fact that there have only been 3 winners of the competition in the last 7 years is a large part of how this has come about, but still.....

It's also mad to think that the reigning Champions themselves won't be in the first tier.

Leinster Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread VIII: May the Fourth Star Be With You!

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