Wikileaks merge (Assange loses extradition appeal)

20-05-2017 05:52PM

biscuithead wrote: »

The problem people have with Assange is that he is intelligent. He is sophisticated. He is highly educated. He has (legally) exposed criminality and sidestepped an attempt to have him silenced.

People dont like to be outfoxed even when they know they are 100% wrong.

Are you being facetious?

Seriously? A man avoids an investigation into alleged rape and you say the issue people have is that he is intelligent and sophisticated? He may well be intelligent, I certainly can't comment on his sophistication as I never met the man.

20-05-2017 06:02PM

Conor, are you aware of the recent plot by the US to paint Assange as a pedophile and of accepting money from Russia?

You seem to think that walking into Guantanamo is the honorable thing to do. If he knows he didn't rape two women, why would he give up his life and freedom to please people like you, who only hate him because of his leaks?

20-05-2017 06:13PM

Deleted User wrote: »

Conor, are you aware of the recent plot by the US to paint Assange as a pedophile and of accepting money from Russia?

You seem to think that walking into Guantanamo is the honorable thing to do. If he knows he didn't rape two women, why would he give up his life and freedom to please people like you, who only hate him because of his leaks?

Again, I don't "hate him because of his leaks" at all. Let's not get personal and make assumptions about other posters.

I don't hate him. I have no strong feelings about him other than being critical of anyone who evades a warrant and avoids due process by going into hiding.

20-05-2017 06:26PM

Deleted User wrote: »

Again, I don't "hate him because of his leaks" at all. Let's not get personal and make assumptions about other posters.

I don't hate him. I have no strong feelings about him other than being critical of anyone who evades a warrant and avoids due process by going into hiding.

A very simple and basic thought process. Guess I can't argue with it.

biscuithead · 20-05-2017 06:26PM

Deleted User wrote: »

Are you being facetious?

Seriously? A man avoids an investigation into alleged rape and you say the issue people have is that he is intelligent and sophisticated? He may well be intelligent, I certainly can't comment on his sophistication as I never met the man.

I'm not being facetious at all. Assange knew that the rape farce was just that, a farce. He knew that were he to simply surrender to Swedish authorities then they would have simply (under pressure from washington) been handed over to the US whereby they could conduct a show trial like the Chelsea Manning kangaroo job and then just bury him.

He knew that in public he would just have been stitched up. Even the british knew this, thats why they allowed him to walk from house arrest across London and into the Equador embassy.

Assange then publicly on hundreds of occasions made himself available to be questioned by the Swedish authorities in the Embassy. They ignored or refused the invited because they knew the whole exercise was a circus. Assange did nothing wrong at all. Like Snowden he outfoxed those who didn't want their crimes exposed. So the best they can do is bitch.

20-05-2017 06:34PM

Deleted User wrote: »

A very simple and basic thought process. Guess I can't argue with it.

Well, apparently hiding under a desk to avoid a rape charge is the height of intelligence and sophistication...

biscuithead · 20-05-2017 06:50PM

Deleted User wrote: »

Conor, are you aware of the recent plot by the US to paint Assange as a pedophile and of accepting money from Russia?

You seem to think that walking into Guantanamo is the honorable thing to do. If he knows he didn't rape two women, why would he give up his life and freedom to please people like you, who only hate him because of his leaks?

Julian Assange didn't leak anything. He published leaked documents. That is not a crimes and if it was then SWAT teams should be surrounding the offices of the Washington Post, The New York Times, The Dallas Morning News, The LA atimes, The Wall Street Journal, to name but a few.

biscuithead · 20-05-2017 07:00PM

If the best people can do is bring up sh1t like Assange hid under a table, then really in all honesty, their grasp of the death sentence crimes he is supposed to have committed is embarrassingly tenuous.

20-05-2017 07:23PM

biscuithead wrote: »

If the best people can do is bring up sh1t like Assange hid under a table, then really in all honesty, their grasp of the death sentence crimes he is supposed to have committed is embarrassingly tenuous.

But he did hide away, didn't he? Hardly worth getting sweary over the exact description of how he hid.

AllForIt · 20-05-2017 09:47PM

Deleted User wrote: »

Well, apparently hiding under a desk to avoid a rape charge is the height of intelligence and sophistication...

Deleted User wrote: »

But he did hide away, didn't he? Hardly worth getting sweary over the exact description of how he hid.

What do you think JA would do if the US decided to drop their case against him in the time period that the rape allegation was still active.

I'm certain he would submit himself to the Swedish authorities and face those rape allegations whether he is guilty or not.

From what I know of the case it is just implausible to me that he is doing all this just to avoid the rape trial and possible prison sentence.

I really don't get you take on all this at all, completely disregarding his fear of spending a lengthy prison sentence in the US which would be much longer than a sentence for rape in Sweden.

It's also interesting that there has been 1 solitary rape allegation...that has been dropped. No one else has come forward. If one doesn't smell a rat in all this then it's just pointless arguing with them on this issue.

Ubbquittious · 20-05-2017 10:13PM

Biggins!

Now there's a blasht from the pasht!

20-05-2017 11:17PM

AllForIt wrote: »

I really don't get you take on all this at all, completely disregarding his fear of spending a lengthy prison sentence in the US which would be much longer than a sentence for rape in Sweden.

It's also interesting that there has been 1 solitary rape allegation...that has been dropped. No one else has come forward. If one doesn't smell a rat in all this then it's just pointless arguing with them on this issue.

For me there is no argument. An EU country had issued an arrest warrant, another EU country ruled that he should be extradited to face that warrant. The whole idea that Sweden would collude with the USA smacks of a conspiracy theory, has anyone come forward with any evidence to back that up?

twill · 20-05-2017 11:41PM

Deleted User wrote: »

For me there is no argument. An EU country had issued an arrest warrant, another EU country ruled that he should be extradited to face that warrant. The whole idea that Sweden would collude with the USA smacks of a conspiracy theory, has anyone come forward with any evidence to back that up?

John Pilger:

In 2012, the Obama campaign boasted on its website that Obama had prosecuted more whistleblowers in his first term than all other US presidents combined. Before Chelsea Manning had even received a trial, Obama had publicly pronounced her guilty.

Few serious observers doubt that should the US get their hands on Assange, a similar fate awaits him. According to documents released by Edward Snowden, he is on a "Manhunt target list". Threats of his kidnapping and assassination became almost political and media currency in the US following then Vice-President Joe Biden's preposterous slur that the WikiLeaks founder was a "cyber-terrorist".

Hillary Clinton, the destroyer of Libya and, as WikiLeaks revealed last year, the secret supporter and personal beneficiary of forces underwriting ISIS, proposed her own expedient solution: "Can't we just drone this guy."
...
"Documents released by WikiLeaks since Assange moved to England," wrote Al Burke, editor of the online Nordic News Network, an authority on the multiple twists and dangers that faced Assange, "clearly indicate that Sweden has consistently submitted to pressure from the United States in matters relating to civil rights. There is every reason for concern that if Assange were to be taken into custody by Swedish authorities, he could be turned over to the United States without due consideration of his legal rights."

On Assange supposedly evading justice:

For five weeks, Assange waited in Sweden for the renewed "rape investigation" to take its course. The Guardian was then on the brink of publishing the Iraq "War Logs", based on WikiLeaks' disclosures, which Assange was to oversee in London.

Finally, he was allowed him to leave. As soon as he had left, Marianne Ny issued a European Arrest Warrant and an Interpol "red alert" normally used for terrorists and dangerous criminals.

There have been no charges levelled against him, and Ny repeatedly refused to arrange for him to be questioned. She had opened an investigation that had originally been dropped.

21-05-2017 03:08AM

There's no point, Twill.

Until he gives his opinion on the recent pedo / Russia plot by the US, whatever he says is worthless.

After he says "that doesn't matter / that didn't happen / that has no relevance to the rape allegations", we can debate him again knowing the level of reasoning we're dealing with.

21-05-2017 04:26AM

twill wrote: »

John Pilger:

It seems like you didn't read it yourself.

It says "Sweden submits to the USA in matters regarding civil rights". That's it. That's the sum total of the conspiracy. Not one suggestion that Sweden and the USA discussed Assange, not a document, not an email, despite changes of Government in both countries?

Deleted User wrote: »

There's no point, Twill.

Until he gives his opinion on the recent pedo / Russia plot by the US, whatever he says is worthless.

After he says "that doesn't matter / that didn't happen / that has no relevance to the rape allegations", we can debate him again knowing the level of reasoning we're dealing with.

If you can explain how some Russian "pedo plot" allegation (btw was the source wikileaks by any chance?) trumps EU laws on warrants and extradition, then I'll deal with it. You might in particular refer to extradition case law, thanks.

21-05-2017 05:01AM

Deleted User wrote: »

If you can explain how some Russian "pedo plot" allegation (btw was the source wikileaks by any chance?) trumps EU laws on warrants and extradition, then I'll deal with it. You might in particular refer to extradition case law, thanks.

I'm out. I have better things to do than argue this tripe.

21-05-2017 05:08AM

Deleted User wrote: »

I'm out. I have better things to do than argue this tripe.

I note the angry tone. I'll chalk that down as a "no, conspiracy theories about Russian pedo plots do not trump the law on arrest warrants and extradition"...

21-05-2017 05:31AM

Deleted User wrote: »

I note the angry tone. I'll chalk that down as a "no, conspiracy theories about Russian pedo plots do not trump the law on arrest warrants and extradition"...

Do whatever you like. We both walk away thinking we won.

21-05-2017 05:38AM

Deleted User wrote: »

Do whatever you like. We both walk away thinking we won.

And yet...you seem strangely annoyed...

Is it the gnawing feeling that, you know, when asked to explain something and you decide to "walk away"...it's not exactly the strut of the victorious, is it?

21-05-2017 05:50AM

Deleted User wrote: »

And yet...you seem strangely annoyed...

Is it the gnawing feeling that, you know, when asked to explain something and you decide to "walk away"...it's not exactly the strut of the victorious, is it?

I've argued with you enough during the election to know the way you think.

You doubting Wikileaks credibility now as a way of avoiding the question I've asked just makes me not want to continue when there is absolutely no point. Like none, at all.

Neither of us will change our opinions and I hate your arguing style so it isn't even interesting.

21-05-2017 05:57AM

Deleted User wrote: »

I've argued with you enough during the election to know the way you think.

You doubting Wikileaks credibility now as a way of avoiding the question I've asked just makes me not want to continue when there is absolutely no point. Like none, at all.

Neither of us will change our opinions and I hate your arguing style so it isn't even interesting.

Speaking of arguing styles, you are desperately trying to personalise the issue. Again, not usually part of the victory routine. Tbh I don't remember your posts on the election, were you SF or FG?

Anyway, the answer, btw the way, was simply "no, Russian pedo plots on wikileaks do not trump arrest warrants in Sweden or extradition law in the UK".

biscuithead · 21-05-2017 02:33PM

Deleted User wrote: »

Again, I don't "hate him because of his leaks" at all. Let's not get personal and make assumptions about other posters.

I don't hate him. I have no strong feelings about him other than being critical of anyone who evades a warrant and avoids due process by going into hiding.

Would you surrender if you knew you had done nothing wrong but you were going to be railroaded? If you knew you were going to be framed and imprisoned for the rest of your life not because you committed a crime but because you embarrassed the establishment and they wanted to make an example of you to discourage others from exposing criminality?

Would you take your chances against a system that routinely wrecks the careers and lives of those who speak out against malfeasance? You would in your hole.

hatrickpatrick · 21-05-2017 02:39PM

Deleted User wrote: »

No one accused of rape gets the benefit of "but I want some guarantee that I'll be immune from extradition" in return for coming out of hiding.

If their extradition would be based on the violation of press freedom, in my view everybody, accused of another crime or not, should be afforded an automatic immunity from extradition by EU countries - it should be codified into EU law that you do not extradite or punish people for performing journalistic functions. But that's just me.

biscuithead · 21-05-2017 02:47PM

Deleted User wrote: »

But he did hide away, didn't he? Hardly worth getting sweary over the exact description of how he hid.

Oh, "sweary"!

How unsportsmanlike of me. Please accept my apologies for offending your delicate sensitivities.

Yourself isit · 21-05-2017 02:51PM

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Are you being facetious?

Seriously? A man avoids an investigation into alleged rape and you say the issue people have is that he is intelligent and sophisticated? He may well be intelligent, I certainly can't comment on his sophistication as I never met the man.

He avoided an investigation into what were clearly politically motivated charges based on sweden's rather enthusiastic definition of rape. Charges now dropped. What he is hiding from now is what he was always hiding from - American retribution against whistle blowers.

biscuithead · 21-05-2017 02:59PM

Deleted User wrote: »

For me there is no argument. An EU country had issued an arrest warrant, another EU country ruled that he should be extradited to face that warrant. The whole idea that Sweden would collude with the USA smacks of a conspiracy theory, has anyone come forward with any evidence to back that up?

Considering american fighter jets, in a typical example of "fcuk international law and diplomatic protocol, we rock and we do what we want", forced down equadorian president's plane because they thought Snowden was on board, do you think that Assange should put any faith in rules being followed. Assange broke no rules and committed no crimes while those who seek to destroy him have done the exact opposite and you complain and try to call him a cheat and a chicken for not allowing himself to be hung.

biscuithead · 21-05-2017 03:11PM

Deleted User wrote: »

For me there is no argument. An EU country had issued an arrest warrant, another EU country ruled that he should be extradited to face that warrant. The whole idea that Sweden would collude with the USA smacks of a conspiracy theory, has anyone come forward with any evidence to back that up?

If you think a government wouldn't collude with the USA then why are armed English cops surrounding the Equadorian embassy 24/7 ready to snatch Assange if he walks out the door?

He's not wanted for anything or even questioning in the UK.

Don't people get tired of playing the CT card when cracks appear in their argument?

Gatling · 21-05-2017 03:22PM

biscuithead wrote: »

Assange broke no rules and committed no crimes while those who seek to destroy him have done the exact opposite and you complain and try to call him a cheat and a chicken for not allowing himself to be hung.

In your opinion only yes

21-05-2017 03:26PM

biscuithead wrote: »

If you think a government wouldn't collude with the USA then why are armed English cops surrounding the Ecuadorian embassy 24/7 ready to snatch Assange if he walks out the door?

He's not wanted for anything or even questioning in the UK.

Don't people get tired of playing the CT card when cracks appear in their argument?

Many of the embassies in London have 24/7 guards, simply there to protect the embassy & staff from terrorist attacks. With the high profile "guest" at the Ecuadorian embassy, it would be very embarrassing if someone got in and killed him.

biscuithead · 21-05-2017 03:34PM

Deleted User wrote: »

I note the angry tone. I'll chalk that down as a "no, conspiracy theories about Russian pedo plots do not trump the law on arrest warrants and extradition"...

Conor, if you hold internatinal arrest warrants in such sacrosanct esteem and if we should all follow the same rules then what do you have to say about the US refusing to respect extradition request from Italy for the murderers of bodyguard Nikola Calipari and the attempted murder of his charge, Giulia Sgrena? What about the arch terrorist, Podesta? What about the Blackwater thugs spirited out of the country after murdering Iraqis in drunken massacres or the multiple Marine Corps rapists who have been transferred from Okinawa, sans charge, like so many paedo priests being reassigned to another parish?

Wikileaks merge (Assange loses extradition appeal)

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