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Wikileaks merge (Assange loses extradition appeal)

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Comments

  • #1112
    AllForIt
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,852 ✭✭✭AllForIt


    gramar wrote: »
    I know I shouldn't be judgemental but I think he looks like a complete prick!

    Whether he is a 'complete prick' or not is completely irrelevant to the bigger issue as to whether it is right that a person who is not a citizen of the USA and did not commit a crime on US soil can be charged with espionage when he lives outside the jurisdiction of US Law. This has implications for all European citizens not just JA. He is right to make an issue out of this even if he is only doing it to save his own skin, for which the rest of us should be grateful should anyone find themselves in a similar predicament.

    In any case JA disputes that he committed espionage at all but that a 3rd party committed the espionage and that that person passed the info on to WikiLeaks who then merely posted the classified information on their website.

    Would you not think that it would be right that the US government should at the very least prove in their request to the UK for extraditon that it was JA who committed the crime of espionage and that's completely aside from the further issues of concern in this case.


  • #1113
    humanji
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,976 ✭✭✭✭humanji


    AllForIt wrote: »
    Whether he is a 'complete prick' or not is completely irrelevant to the bigger issue as to whether it is right that a person who is not a citizen of the USA and did not commit a crime on US soil can be charged with espionage when he lives outside the jurisdiction of US Law. This has implications for all European citizens not just JA. He is right to make an issue out of this even if he is only doing it to save his own skin, for which the rest of us should be grateful should anyone find themselves in a similar predicament.

    In any case JA disputes that he committed espionage at all but that a 3rd party committed the espionage and that that person passed the info on to WikiLeaks who then merely posted the classified information on their website.

    Would you not think that it would be right that the US government should at the very least prove in their request to the UK for extraditon that it was JA who committed the crime of espionage and that's completely aside from the further issues of concern in this case.
    He's been charged with espionage?


  • #1114
    AllForIt
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,852 ✭✭✭AllForIt


    humanji wrote: »
    He's been charged with espionage?

    Yes because the Americans believe that he interacted with Miss Bernard Manning and possibly others to carry out activities on his behalf in the US to acquire top secret information which is effectively the same as JA himself being a spy albeit from afar through a 3rd party. That would be at least part of the US case against him anyway and is certainly part of the rhetoric I have heard spouted against him by the US.


  • #1115
    Gatling
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 40,291 ✭✭✭✭Gatling


    He's not been cleared , coward ,perv , doubt he's ever going to leave the equator Embassy thought ,
    360_F_102352090_ie3kLjDIvgrT1sxVDknWCUh8PxgMYzM7.jpg




  • #1116
    AllForIt
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,852 ✭✭✭AllForIt


    Gatling wrote: »
    He's not been cleared , coward ,perv , doubt he's ever going to leave the equator Embassy thought ,

    To say JA is a coward after all he has done re WL blows my mind. Do you think Snowden was a coward when he revealed what he did. Quite the opposite. He knew in advance what the implication would be for his life before he followed his conscience but did what he did nonetheless.

    If you were actually paying attention to the news today you will find that the rape allegations were dropped. Why would any rape allegation be dropped if the relevant authorities believed there wasn't a case. So in my estimation he has been cleared.

    In any case, as many other posters on here are doing, you are completely ignoring the wider implications of this case that apply to all of us all , instead turning it into a personal attack on JA.


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  • #1117
    please helpThank YOU
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,390 ✭✭✭please helpThank YOU


    AllForIt wrote: »
    To say JA is a coward after all he has done re WL blows my mind. Do you think Snowden was a coward when he revealed what he did. Quite the opposite. He knew in advance what the implication would be for his life before he followed his conscience but did what he did nonetheless.

    If you were actually paying attention to the news today you will find that the rape allegations were dropped. Why would any rape allegation be dropped if the relevant authorities believed there wasn't a case. So in my estimation he has been cleared.

    In any case, as many other posters on here are doing, you are completely ignoring the wider implications of this case that apply to all of us all , instead turning it into a personal attack on JA.
    Very well said.


  • #1118
    DrPhilG
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,450 ✭✭✭✭DrPhilG


    Deleted User wrote: »
    I find him oddly attractive.

    Seek help.

    http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2056233423&page=1


  • #1119
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 22,384 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Bit distasteful to invoke his kids.

    He could have seen his kids if he walked out of the embassy and faced his accusers.

    He wasn't thinking if his kids the night he was engaging in sex that led to an accusation of rape.

    He hid under a desk until procedural issues arose? What a man.


  • #1120
    silverharp
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,853 ✭✭✭✭silverharp


    Deleted User wrote: »
    Bit distasteful to invoke his kids.

    He could have seen his kids if he walked out of the embassy and faced his accusers.

    He wasn't thinking if his kids the night he was engaging in sex that led to an accusation of rape.

    He hid under a desk until procedural issues arose? What a man.

    I should hope not :pac:

    A belief in gender identity involves a level of faith as there is nothing tangible to prove its existence which, as something divorced from the physical body, is similar to the idea of a soul. - Colette Colfer



  • #1121
    hatrickpatrick
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,798 ✭✭✭✭hatrickpatrick


    Deleted User wrote: »
    Bit distasteful to invoke his kids.

    He could have seen his kids if he walked out of the embassy and faced his accusers.

    He wasn't thinking if his kids the night he was engaging in sex that led to an accusation of rape.

    He hid under a desk until procedural issues arose? What a man.

    He repeatedly and consistently maintained all along that if the UK and/or Sweden had sought and supplied a guarantee that his subsequent extradition to the US would be refused on press freedom grounds, he would have surrendered himself for extradition. This was always about the spectre of a sealed grand jury in the US - and looking at the treatment of people such as Chelsea Manning and Barrett Brown among others, he was absolutely right to be concerned.


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  • #1122
    Gatling
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 40,291 ✭✭✭✭Gatling


    AllForIt wrote: »
    To say JA is a coward after all he has done

    If you were actually paying attention to the news today you will find that the rape allegations were dropped. Why would any rape allegation be dropped if the relevant authorities believed there wasn't a case. So in my estimation he has been cleared.

    Yes he's a coward ,

    Luckily​ your estimation is only opinion ,he wasn't cleared and till a court or Jury clears him.he's nothing more then a sex offender who's hiding in a foreign Embassy ,
    And then come out with its a victory for human rights complete and utter bollix
    360_F_102352090_ie3kLjDIvgrT1sxVDknWCUh8PxgMYzM7.jpg




  • #1123
    Yourself isit
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,256 ✭✭✭Yourself isit


    Gatling wrote: »
    Yes he's a coward ,

    Luckily​ your estimation is only opinion ,he wasn't cleared and till a court or Jury clears him.he's nothing more then a sex offender who's hiding in a foreign Embassy ,
    And then come out with its a victory for human rights complete and utter bollix

    When was he found guilty of sex offense?


  • #1124
    Gatling
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 40,291 ✭✭✭✭Gatling


    Yourself isit wrote: »
    When was he found guilty of sex offense?

    He's​ not been found innocent of a sex offences has he
    360_F_102352090_ie3kLjDIvgrT1sxVDknWCUh8PxgMYzM7.jpg




  • #1125
    Yourself isit
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,256 ✭✭✭Yourself isit


    Gatling wrote: »
    He's​ not been found innocent of a sex offences has he

    Neither have you.

    That's not the way the justice system works. Innocence is assumed.


  • #1126
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 22,384 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    hatrickpatrick wrote: »
    He repeatedly and consistently maintained all along that if the UK and/or Sweden had sought and supplied a guarantee that his subsequent extradition to the US would be refused on press freedom grounds, he would have surrendered himself for extradition. This was always about the spectre of a sealed grand jury in the US - and looking at the treatment of people such as Chelsea Manning and Barrett Brown among others, he was absolutely right to be concerned.

    No one accused of rape gets the benefit of "but I want some guarantee that I'll be immune from extradition" in return for coming out of hiding.


  • #1127
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 22,384 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Yourself isit wrote: »
    Neither have you.

    That's not the way the justice system works. Innocence is assumed.

    It is. No one accused of an offence is automatically guilty. But there will usually be a degree of scepticism about anyone who evades the law by fleeing.


  • #1128
    Gatling
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 40,291 ✭✭✭✭Gatling


    Yourself isit wrote: »
    Neither have you.

    That's not the way the justice system works. Innocence is assumed.

    Haven't been accussed either ,
    Evading justice​ and your accusers in a court of law would suggest innocent isn't the word
    360_F_102352090_ie3kLjDIvgrT1sxVDknWCUh8PxgMYzM7.jpg




  • #1129
    Yourself isit
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,256 ✭✭✭Yourself isit


    [Deleted User] wrote: »
    It is. No one accused of an offence is automatically guilty. But there will usually be a degree of scepticism about anyone who evades the law by fleeing.

    Seems to have been dropped though. Therefore he's innocent. Unless you believe that all claims ever made should sully someone's name indefinitely.

    Assange believes the Swedish case was fabricated to get an extradition to Sweden where he would be then extradited to the US. As you know.

    Given the nature of the modern US establishment that's a valid fear.


  • #1130
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 22,384 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Yourself isit wrote: »
    Seems to have been dropped though. Therefore hes innocent. Unless you believe that all claims ever made should sully someone's name indefinitely.

    Assange believes the Swedish case was fabricated to get an extradition to Sweden where he would be then extradited to the US. As you know.

    Given the nature of the modern US establishment that's a valid fear.

    Has he produced any evidence of his allegation of collusion?

    Presumably, as he is innocent of the rape accusation because he evaded justice, so are the authorities in Sweden and the USA innocent of collusion?


  • #1131
    Yourself isit
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,256 ✭✭✭Yourself isit


    [Deleted User] wrote: »
    Has he produced any evidence of his allegation of collusion?

    Presumably, as he is innocent of the rape accusation because he evaded justice, so are the authorities in Sweden and the USA innocent of collusion?

    He's innocent of the rape accusation because he "evaded justice"? Can you explain that? The charges have been dropped.

    This is appalling. You are supposedly legally trained. What do you mean by evaded justice?


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  • #1132
    Yourself isit
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,256 ✭✭✭Yourself isit


    As for the suggestion that the US isn't out to get him there's this.

    https://www.ft.com/content/000ce526-2629-11e7-8691-d5f7e0cd0a16


  • #1133
    Gatling
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 40,291 ✭✭✭✭Gatling


    Yourself isit wrote: »
    He's innocent of the rape accusation because he "evaded justice"? Can you explain that? The charges have been dropped.

    Do you actually understand why the chargers were dropped at all ,

    If you don't here is the simplest version Julian is hiding in a foreign Embassy in London preventing the case from going forward ,

    He wasn't cleared because he's been found innocent Fact
    360_F_102352090_ie3kLjDIvgrT1sxVDknWCUh8PxgMYzM7.jpg




  • #1134
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 22,384 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Yourself isit wrote: »
    He's innocent of the rape accusation because he "evaded justice"? Can you explain that? The charges have been dropped.

    This is appalling. You are supposedly legally trained. What do you mean by evaded justice?

    Evading justice is not submitting to due process by fleeing.

    It's not appalling at all. I have said he was not guilty. I have merely provided more context. Are you saying he submitted to due process?

    As for your continued "he is not susceptible to the law because like, 'Murica is bad", do you not think that's "appalling"?


  • #1135
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 18,046 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    In terms of politics..

    Best part of 2016: Trump losing the popular vote.
    Best part of 2017: Assange's case getting brought up again.

    Embrace that hate.


  • #1136
    biscuithead
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 157 ✭✭biscuithead


    AllForIt wrote: »
    Whether he is a 'complete prick' or not is completely irrelevant to the bigger issue as to whether it is right that a person who is not a citizen of the USA and did not commit a crime on US soil can be charged with espionage when he lives outside the jurisdiction of US Law. This has implications for all European citizens not just JA. He is right to make an issue out of this even if he is only doing it to save his own skin, for which the rest of us should be grateful should anyone find themselves in a similar predicament.

    In any case JA disputes that he committed espionage at all but that a 3rd party committed the espionage and that that person passed the info on to WikiLeaks who then merely posted the classified information on their website.

    Would you not think that it would be right that the US government should at the very least prove in their request to the UK for extraditon that it was JA who committed the crime of espionage and that's completely aside from the further issues of concern in this case.

    It may be a crime to leak classified information but it is not a crime to publish it. Assange hasn't broken any laws. The extent to peoples' ignorance knows no bounds. There were even US politicians screaming that he should be executed for treason. Treason! These winners don"t even know the definition of treason and they are congressmen.


  • #1137
    biscuithead
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 157 ✭✭biscuithead


    Gatling wrote: »
    He's not been cleared , coward ,perv , doubt he's ever going to leave the equator Embassy thought ,

    How is he a coward and a pervert?

    He's a coward because he refused to allow himself to be incarcerated on fabricated charges in a show trial?

    He's a pervert because he is accused of rape that both alleged victims have denied?


  • #1138
    biscuithead
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 157 ✭✭biscuithead


    Deleted User wrote: »
    Bit distasteful to invoke his kids.

    He could have seen his kids if he walked out of the embassy and faced his accusers.

    He wasn't thinking if his kids the night he was engaging in sex that led to an accusation of rape.

    He hid under a desk until procedural issues arose? What a man.

    His character is not on trial here. What do his kids have to do with whether or not he has sex?

    What crime did he commit?


  • #1139
    biscuithead
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 157 ✭✭biscuithead


    Gatling wrote: »
    Yes he's a coward ,

    Luckily​ your estimation is only opinion ,he wasn't cleared and till a court or Jury clears him.he's nothing more then a sex offender who's hiding in a foreign Embassy ,
    And then come out with its a victory for human rights complete and utter bollix

    What sex offence has he committed? If you are referring to rape in Sweden, are you aware that the two alleged victims have repeatedly denied it?

    Does that not matter to you?


  • #1140
    biscuithead
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 157 ✭✭biscuithead


    Gatling wrote: »
    He's​ not been found innocent of a sex offences has he

    Neither have you.


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  • #1141
    biscuithead
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 157 ✭✭biscuithead


    The problem people have with Assange is that he is intelligent. He is sophisticated. He is highly educated. He has (legally) exposed criminality and sidestepped an attempt to have him silenced.

    People dont like to be outfoxed even when they know they are 100% wrong.


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