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Male Genital Mutilation - why is this allowed?

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  • #152
    greencap
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,102 ✭✭✭greencap


    Time to throw in my 2c.

    First; all these ''female posters'' you find online saying they prefer the snipped weiner - 90% of them are males doing digital marketing for team snipped cock.
    Probably with ip's from Tel-Aviv.


    Any woman who's been with an intact cock knows about the convertible feature. Natural weiners can transmogrify - so there's no aesthetic difference when in action mode.

    The only universal difference is that the intact weiner still has all its nerve endings, as the helmet has been comfortably shielded from the inside of a denim trouser leg all these years.

    The option is always there for unsnipped dudes. It rarely gets taken up. Mostly because no man wants a reduced volume weiner.

    Lets say getting the snip costs 5% of weiner size.
    One twentieth, I think that's reasonable ... who really want's a 5% smaller cock.

    If you put two signs out on the street with 'free 5% weiner reduction' or 'free 5% weiner increase' ... guess which one has a queue round the block.

    And this aesthetic argument is nonsense - all cocks are equally ugly and disgusting when flaccid. And generally look the same when activated.

    I really don't know what on earth might make the snipped crowd think aesthetics might be on their side.

    The options are anteater or pink dangling mushroom. Neither of which are a joy to behold. (depending on your mood at the time)

    In fact I'd confidently guess that theres some long established rule of aesthetics out there in the art/architecture world which would rule for consistency of color and texture, rather than skin color over most of the body's surface area, with a sudden pink bit assaulting the senses.

    When has same-same-same-DIFFERENT-same-same-same ever been a good thing in visual design.

    discussion/2058195983/russia-threadbanned-users-in-op/p3135

    😁



  • #153
    Roger Hassenforder
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,555 ✭✭✭Roger Hassenforder


    Benbooms wrote: »
    Boys circumcised at birth will never be able to experience the pleasure of a fully functioning penis.

    Ah go on up the garden with you.
    That's like saying the white I see is whiter than the one you see.

    Circumcised willys aren't the keratinised, dead, unfeeling lumps of tissue this thread would have you thinking.

    If my John Thomas experienced any more pleasure during sex, I'd probably explode. Again.


  • #154
    zedhead
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 605 ✭✭✭zedhead


    BlueStratos wrote: »
    @zedhead
    With regards to cosmetic surgery of children..
    I think both legally, and culturally; we all know what is and isn't acceptable.
    So I won't clarify that a parent choosing a boob job or labiaplasty for a child is wrong (and illegal).
    And I don't feel I need to clarify that circumcision is both legal, and culturally acceptable than the above cosmetic surgeries.
    .

    But you are missing the point. There are plenty of people as demonstrated by this thread who don't believe it is acceptable to circumcise baby boys for cosmetic reasons. There are plenty of things that were legal in the past that only changed because they are questioned and FGM is legally and socially acceptable in other countries - does that make it ok then?

    Its fine if you don't feel the need to clarify - but I am failing to understand why anyone would feel its acceptable to permanently alter one part of your childs body for cosmetic reasons but not another other than 'its legal so its fine'


  • #155
    BlueStratos
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20 ✭BlueStratos


    @Alizrian Crimson
    I am aware of the risks. One can take my word for it I personally researched these when I decided to have it done at 25.
    with regards to our sons, my wife also researched the risks; and we chose a very good surgeon for that reason.
    I had no problems, and neither did our two sons. There are some risks with surgery, that is a given.
    To answer your other question regarding why is it OK to cut little boys and not girls?
    Well it's the law. FGM is illegal, and rightly so. Circumcision is legal though, and rightly so.
    If the latter was illegal such as the former, then of course I wouldn't have it done myself, nor would I have our son's done either.
    There is a difference between FGM and circumcision; and I think that is obvious, so I won't clarify my point further.
    My wife and I think all sons should be done. But we also accept that many people don't agree with this view; and that is fine too.
    Like I said before, I don't wish to change your view on it at all. My wife would do though as she is more pro-circumcision than I.


  • #156
    pickarooney
    Moderators, Arts Moderators Posts: 36,131 Mod ✭✭✭✭pickarooney


    OldNotWIse wrote: »
    Where is the outrage over parents allowing someone to punch holes in their baby daughters' ears?

    All over the internet... Start a thread on that subject, maybe?


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  • #157
    Widdershins
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,633 ✭✭✭✭Widdershins


    Sorry OP but the circumcised men I know enjoy sex very much, do not feel their penises were ''destroyed'' and have no issues with sensitivity. My view is that it shouldn't be done to children without a medical reason, because no unnecessary procedure should be done to children. Let them choose when they're old enough to understand the process and give their own consent. The level of dramatic demonisation is totally unnecessary, though.
    I'm not even going to follow the thread as your feelings are so set in stone on this one.
    And to ask why is FGM banned and Circ. not is honestly a very strange question. The difference is staggering.


  • #158
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 8,350 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Doesn't circumcision reduce the risk of AIDS and STD's and is used in Africa as means to control AIDS?


  • #159
    Roger Hassenforder
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,555 ✭✭✭Roger Hassenforder


    jh79 wrote: »
    Doesn't circumcision reduce the risk of AIDS and STD's and is used in Africa as means to control AIDS?

    Zionist propaganda


  • #160
    wench
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,677 ✭✭✭wench


    BlueStratos wrote: »
    I prefer it, she prefers it, and that is fine. But I don't think people should force their views on to another person really. But she likes to influence her girlfriends and sister etc.
    Do you not think that having irreversible surgery done on a child is forcing your view on them?


  • #161
    Alizrian Crimson
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 114 ✭✭Alizrian Crimson


    BlueStratos wrote: »
    @Alizrian Crimson
    I am aware of the risks. One can take my word for it I personally researched these when I decided to have it done at 25.
    with regards to our sons, my wife also researched the risks; and we chose a very good surgeon for that reason.
    I had no problems, and neither did our two sons. There are some risks with surgery, that is a given.
    To answer your other question regarding why is it OK to cut little boys and not girls?
    Well it's the law. FGM is illegal, and rightly so. Circumcision is legal though, and rightly so.
    If the latter was illegal such as the former, then of course I wouldn't have it done myself, nor would I have our son's done either.
    There is a difference between FGM and circumcision; and I think that is obvious, so I won't clarify my point further.
    My wife and I think all sons should be done. But we also accept that many people don't agree with this view; and that is fine too.
    Like I said before, I don't wish to change your view on it at all. My wife would do though as she is more pro-circumcision than I.

    But why do you think it's ok to mutilate boys but not girls? Saying the law says its ok is not good enough. What if your sons resent what you did to them?

    Why didn't you let them chose for themselves when they got older?

    It's disgusting that your wife is on some kid of crusade. Imagine if I told people to cut their daughters because I prefer the look of a 'tidier' vagina. People would think I'm insane.

    I hope the day comes when circumcision for cosmetic, hygienic or religious is banned.


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  • #162
    greencap
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,102 ✭✭✭greencap


    jh79 wrote: »
    Doesn't circumcision reduce the risk of AIDS and STD's and is used in Africa as means to control AIDS?

    Apparently ... according to some. By a tiny percentage.


    The question to ask though is - how old is AIDS. And how old is circumcision.

    All these years guys have been getting bits of their dicks cut off, and it wasn't for anything to do with AIDS.

    So what was it for.

    Stopping young guys from whacking off - well that worked.
    Pleasing a universe creator - yeah I bet he'd be real proud.

    Which two countries have the highest proliferation rates of this strange practice. Hmmmm.

    discussion/2058195983/russia-threadbanned-users-in-op/p3135

    😁



  • #163
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 8,350 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    greencap wrote: »
    Apparently ... according to some. By a tiny percentage.


    The question to ask though is - how old is AIDS. And how old is circumcision.

    All these years guys have been getting bits of their dicks cut off, and it wasn't for anything to do with AIDS.

    So what was it for.

    Stopping young guys from whacking off - well that worked.
    Pleasing a universe creator - yeah I bet he'd be real proud.

    Which two countries have the highest proliferation rates of this strange practice. Hmmmm.

    It's a good reason to continue with the practice to be fair.


  • #164
    Wibbs
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 60,291 Mod ✭✭✭✭Wibbs


    Just for fun let's swap this around a bit...
    BlueStratos wrote: »
    My husband wanted our daughters done mainly so they would look the same as myself.
    He thinks it looks better. I think if men are honest, most of them do too.
    I think for fathers opting to have their daughters done, the real main reason is they prefer the look; rather than cleanliness or medical benefits.
    I don't think this should be a problem, the motivation behind why a parents chooses to get their daughter's done.
    Personally I don't have a problem with someone choosing to have cosmetic surgery; whether its a nose job, boob job, labiaplasty, circumcision, etc.
    That is their choice to do so, and I respect that. In the case of circumcision; then I think yes, the father should have the right to choose what he prefers for his daughter.
    Maybe my husband is more pro-circumcision than most men, but I think when men have experienced a circumcised one then they also prefer it and tend to go that way in their views too.
    I know his brother has become more pro-circumcision after having his daughter done. Maybe that is just what happens. Men do it then prefer it, and influence others.
    But I don't think wanting ones daughter done as it looks better is any less valid reason than say thinking it is cleaner or has medical benefits. The reason isn't so important.

    Cue sh1testorm if that was typed outside a culture where female circumcision is considered preferable. And people wonder why male circumcision is seen as beyond daft and a little hypocritical. I'd be pretty sure this poster would be very much against doing the exact same thing to newborn girls and would be up in arms at the notion that parents would know better in that scenario.
    jh79 wrote:
    Doesn't circumcision reduce the risk of AIDS and STD's and is used in Africa as means to control AIDS?
    Compare cultures where male circumcision is majority and those where it is not, then compare the HIV infection rates. Going by that it would seem that it's a causative factor in infection.. Which would be daft too.

    Many worry about Artificial Intelligence. I worry far more about Organic Idiocy.



  • #165
    greencap
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,102 ✭✭✭greencap


    jh79 wrote: »
    It's a good reason to continue with the practice to be fair.

    If you believe the report, maybe.

    discussion/2058195983/russia-threadbanned-users-in-op/p3135

    😁



  • #166
    Alizrian Crimson
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 114 ✭✭Alizrian Crimson


    Widdershins wrote: »
    Sorry OP but the circumcised men I know enjoy sex very much, do not feel their penises were ''destroyed'' and have no issues with sensitivity. My view is that it shouldn't be done to children without a medical reason, because no unnecessary procedure should be done to children. Let them choose when they're old enough to understand the process and give their own consent. The level of dramatic demonisation is totally unnecessary, though.
    I'm not even going to follow the thread as your feelings are so set in stone on this one.
    And to ask why is FGM banned and Circ. not is honestly a very strange question. The difference is staggering.

    It's perfectly valid to ask why mgm is fine but fgm is not. There are different levels of female circumcision. There is even a thought that a limited form of female circumcision should be allowed in the western world. That ok with you?

    Frankly I suspect the only reason mgm hasn't been banned is because people are terrified of offending Jews and Muslims.

    If there is a sound medical reason then maybe, but you have no right to alter the genitals of someone else. Let the man decide himself when he's old enough.

    Sooner this banned the better. And I don't care if that offends Yahweh or Allah.


  • #167
    BlueStratos
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20 ✭BlueStratos


    @wench
    Yes, I do. And I think it is a parents right to force their respective views on their children until they are 18 and adult.
    At which point they are entitled to their own views, such as voting in elections, smoking and drinking, etc.
    My wife and I prefer it, and so we had our son's done; as we think it's best. Our views, our children, forcing our views on them.
    Neither my wife nor I have a problem with that. We force our views on them about many things.
    They are both teenagers now, and have never expressed any problem or resentment whatsoever about it. I would describe their respective views on circumcision as the same as religion and politics really; apathetic on all accounts.
    What others choose to do (or not) with their children is their business, I don't really mind either way.
    My wife is more pro-circumcision though, but I don't really mind that either. Each to their own really.


  • #168
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 8,350 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Wibbs wrote: »
    Just for fun let's swap this around a bit...





    Compare cultures where male circumcision is majority and those where it is not, then compare the HIV infection rates. Going by that it would seem that it's a causative factor in infection.. Which would be daft too.

    Comparing two simple bits of data like that will never tell you anything useful. As far as I know the AIDS virus can survive on the foreskin and that increases the risk of infection.


  • #169
    jobbridge4life
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,759 ✭✭✭jobbridge4life


    BlueStratos wrote: »
    @wench
    Yes, I do. And I think it is a parents right to force their respective views on their children until they are 18 and adult.
    At which point they are entitled to their own views, such as voting in elections, smoking and drinking, etc.
    My wife and I prefer it, and so we had our son's done; as we think it's best. Our views, our children, forcing our views on them.
    Neither my wife nor I have a problem with that. We force our views on them about many things.
    They are both teenagers now, and have never expressed any problem or resentment whatsoever about it. I would describe their respective views on circumcision as the same as religion and politics really; apathetic on all accounts.
    What others choose to do (or not) with their children is their business, I don't really mind either way.
    My wife is more pro-circumcision though, but I don't really mind that either. Each to their own really.

    Were you never, even slightly, perturbed by the fact that your wife thinks it is perfectly okay to enforce cosmetic alterations on her male children but would balk at the notion of doing similar to a female one?

    Does that not strike you as incongruous?


  • #170
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 8,350 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18800244

    These results provide unequivocal evidence that circumcision plays a causal role in reducing the risk of HIV infection among men.


  • #171
    Alizrian Crimson
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 114 ✭✭Alizrian Crimson


    jh79 wrote: »
    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18800244

    These results provide unequivocal evidence that circumcision plays a causal role in reducing the risk of HIV infection among men.

    So does using condoms. That's better than encouraging some Bronze Age desert ritual.


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  • #172
    greencap
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,102 ✭✭✭greencap


    jh79 wrote: »
    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18800244

    These results provide unequivocal evidence that circumcision plays a causal role in reducing the risk of HIV infection among men.

    And the price? For this 2%(?) ?

    discussion/2058195983/russia-threadbanned-users-in-op/p3135

    😁



  • #173
    BlueStratos
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20 ✭BlueStratos


    @Alizrian Crimson
    To answer your questions.
    I do not consider circumcision to be mutilation. I consider FGM to be mutilation. Not the same things.
    My wife and I decided it was better to get our sons done as babies, rather than later (as I was at 25) as they babies heal faster than adults from the procedure.
    I respect you are against circumcision, and can understand your view. I would not wish to change that, and certainly would not try to impose my view on you.
    My wife most probably would, as she is more pro-circumcision than I. However she also accepts that her sister was influenced by her views; but some of her friends think she talks nonsense.
    I am not bothered either way to be honest with you; each to their own. Some women prefer circumcised men, some men prefer women with big boobs etc. That is just the way it is, we all have our own preferences in life.
    I think its better, you don't; etc.


  • #174
    wench
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,677 ✭✭✭wench


    BlueStratos wrote: »
    @wench
    Yes, I do. And I think it is a parents right to force their respective views on their children until they are 18 and adult.
    At which point they are entitled to their own views, such as voting in elections, smoking and drinking, etc.
    At which point it is too late for them to do anything about it. Politics and religion can be changed, a foreskin cannot be reattached.

    Why not wait until they were old enough to make their own decision, and then explain your case in favour of it?

    Unless your family are big naturists, you won't be spending so much time looking at it that it should be a problem.


  • #175
    Alizrian Crimson
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 114 ✭✭Alizrian Crimson


    BlueStratos wrote: »
    @Alizrian Crimson
    To answer your questions.
    I do not consider circumcision to be mutilation. I consider FGM to be mutilation. Not the same things.
    My wife and I decided it was better to get our sons done as babies, rather than later (as I was at 25) as they babies heal faster than adults from the procedure.
    I respect you are against circumcision, and can understand your view. I would not wish to change that, and certainly would not try to impose my view on you.
    My wife most probably would, as she is more pro-circumcision than I. However she also accepts that her sister was influenced by her views; but some of her friends think she talks nonsense.
    I am not bothered either way to be honest with you; each to their own. Some women prefer circumcised men, some men prefer women with big boobs etc. That is just the way it is, we all have our own preferences in life.
    I think its better, you don't; etc.

    And I don't respect the views of you and your wife. Cutting your sons because your thinks it looks better? What is wrong with you?

    Why is not ok to modify a girls genitals then for cosmetic purposes?


  • #176
    OldNotWIse
    Closed Accounts Posts: 12,468 ✭✭✭✭OldNotWIse


    pickarooney wrote: »
    All over the internet... Start a thread on that subject, maybe?
    No. Are we not allowed make comparable arguments now?


  • #177
    BlueStratos
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20 ✭BlueStratos


    @jobbridge4life
    No, I think it's widely accepted and understood that cosmetic children on children is not acceptable nor is it legal.
    FGM and circumcision are not the same thing. Nor is circumcision and labiaplasty etc.
    Of course my wife would not think it is OK to give a child a boob job or labiaplasty. That should be their choice at 18 when adult.
    We just think circumcision looks better and is cleaner, and heals faster when done as a baby rather than adult.
    So we decided to get our sons done, and we are both happy we did. They are apathetic about it really.
    Everyone has different views on parenting for/against breast feeding/ear piercing/vacinations etc.
    The list is endless really, and people will get very heated about these things either way.
    I do admit that I sometimes wonder if my wife has developed some kind of fetish for it now. Personally I would not try to influence her friends (or my own friends) in the same way she does.
    I suppose she just really likes the look, and finds it arousing. Hence her enthusiasm for it. I don't know really.
    Maybe that is just what happens, for example her sister also now prefer it after getting her sons and partner done.
    In any case, I don't think it's worth getting worked up or heated over. Each to their own. I like it, some don't; I accept we all don't have the same views on things, and that is fine.


  • #178
    Widdershins
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,633 ✭✭✭✭Widdershins


    Roger Hassenforder wrote: »
    Zionist propaganda

    Circumcision's very common among Muslims too.


  • #179
    eviltwin
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,495 ✭✭✭✭eviltwin


    BlueStratos wrote: »
    @wench
    Yes, I do. And I think it is a parents right to force their respective views on their children until they are 18 and adult.
    At which point they are entitled to their own views, such as voting in elections, smoking and drinking, etc.
    My wife and I prefer it, and so we had our son's done; as we think it's best. Our views, our children, forcing our views on them.
    Neither my wife nor I have a problem with that. We force our views on them about many things.
    They are both teenagers now, and have never expressed any problem or resentment whatsoever about it. I would describe their respective views on circumcision as the same as religion and politics really; apathetic on all accounts.
    What others choose to do (or not) with their children is their business, I don't really mind either way.
    My wife is more pro-circumcision though, but I don't really mind that either. Each to their own really.

    I think you and your wife are disgusting. Its bad enough you did it but here you are making excuses and trying to deflect by saying most women prefer it....I don't think most women give a toss tbh what a man's dick looks like. Any cosmetic modifications on your child's body should be of their own making and not forced on them by vanity.


  • #180
    seamus
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 68,173 ✭✭✭✭seamus


    jh79 wrote: »
    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18800244

    These results provide unequivocal evidence that circumcision plays a causal role in reducing the risk of HIV infection among men.
    Among men.

    Wider analyses find that the practice of circumcising men to protect against HIV and other STDs results in an increase of risky sexual behaviour because many believe themselves "protected" against infection.

    Especially in poorer nations, you then see a rise in women and gay men becoming infected because they're already a bigger risk group than heterosexual men.

    So as a strategy for reducing HIV in men, circumcision has some benefit. As a public health strategy though, it has little or no benefit overall.
    OldNotWIse wrote: »
    I never realized it was such a divisive issue.
    You're surprised that people react in disgust about the topic of mutilating children's genitals?


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  • #181
    greencap
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,102 ✭✭✭greencap


    eviltwin wrote: »
    I don't think most women give a toss tbh what a man's dick looks like.

    Exactly. She only has to be slapped in the face with it, not judge it.

    discussion/2058195983/russia-threadbanned-users-in-op/p3135

    😁



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