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Are you glad the Catholic Church in Ireland is finished ?

13567…11

Comments

  • #62
    One eyed Jack
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 25,439 ✭✭✭✭One eyed Jack


    Cee-Jay-Cee wrote: »
    Because the vast majority of them went straight from school into the seminary. They have no experience of bringing up they're own children, married life, etc. They live sheltered lives in houses provided for them, many of them have never had a proper job earning their own money. How can someone like that then stand up and preach to others on how to live as a family, how to bring up our children etc etc

    My main point being is that priests should be allowed marry and have normal lives before being in a position to preach to others on how to live their lives.


    So they have a different life experience to the one that you assume they should want for themselves in order to be able to talk about things you assume they have no authority to talk about?

    Well that's a very different argument to suggesting they have 'zero life experience', particularly when they would have grown up in a family structure where their parents were married, and they have relatives and friends who are married and have children, and they were hardly sitting around on their holes all day in the seminary, they would have studied many subjects besides theology. They would also have travelled to other countries and experienced other cultures, so to assume they have 'zero life experience' would simply be wrong, on a number of counts. They're clergymen, not hermits.

    Huntergonzo wrote: »
    haha well that is ironic One eyed Jack I'll give you that, "out of touch with reality" would be a perfect slogan for the teaching of the Catholic church. They're an organisation with many definite answers to big questions, just little or no proof to back up their answers.

    Ps, in fairnees most of those parents are also products of the same education system as their children so there's little point in trying to reason with them, see how the cycle just goes on and on and on to the benefit of the church.


    Well you could reason with them if you actually had a point. Your point that children are taught creationism over science just doesn't stand up to any scrutiny, particularly when it's weighed against the point that were it not for the education I for one received at both primary and secondary level, I would have been unlikely to progress to third level where I studied computer science and have been working in the area of software development for the last 20 odd years.

    I don't have an issue with my child being a product of the same education system you're so quick to scorn which is why I for one would look at you if you came out with such nonsense as though you're a bit out of touch with reality.


  • #63
    osarusan
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,059 ✭✭✭✭osarusan


    It isn't finished, and won't ever be finished, as there will always be adherents. That's fine with me - people should be free to believe in whatever they want.

    But it should have no influence on the state. Yet, it still does, and that is not fine with me.


  • #64
    _Brian
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 20,074 ✭✭✭✭_Brian


    Cee-Jay-Cee wrote: »
    The RC church is far from being finished (in Ireland at least) but thankfully they do not have the same hold on the people they used to have and they can no longer dictate what we can and cannot do as people simply no longer stand for that crap.

    I was brought up a catholic, I served as an alter boy for a few years too. I made my first communion and confirmation and I was married in a RC church (albeit in Spain) but I have zero respect or time for the RC church. Their teachings are borderline ridiculous, a catholic Mass is just the most stupid nonsensical thing ever. Why grown people are expected to go to a church every week and sit down, kneel and stand up for no apparent reason and then ramble off a few nonsense rhymes all the while listening to made up stories being told by a man who has zero life experience and yet preaches about children and marriage and vows and other sh?te he has no personal knowledge of is beyond comprehension.

    I've been brought up RC myself and like many you mention above wouldnjave issues with what in particular the RC church preach on a Sunday.
    Many "Catholics" think priests should marry for real world experience, that women should be priests, few believe the Eucharist becomes body and blood, few believe Mary was a virgin. Truth is many, many "Catholics" like this, including myself are actually Protestants because of their beliefs.
    Myself religion is so far down on my life priorities that I couldn't bother changing, but my religious thinking as above would indeed be more aligned with Protestant teachings than Catholic teachings.


  • #65
    Rubberchikken
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,303 ✭✭✭Rubberchikken


    they have no more proof of a god than any other religion nor, imo, are they finished in ireland.
    it's so 'on' at the moment to bash the catholic church here and worldwide while bowing down to the muslim faith. people are afriad to speak negatively about it for fear of comeback. the catholic church takes the bashings handed out to it, it doesn't threaten to bomb/maim/kill anyone who,speaks out against it. in fact, it's open to criticism from all.


  • #66
    Dr Crayfish
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,960 ✭✭✭Dr Crayfish


    What's this thing where if you're anti-Catholicism and atheist people come into these threads and start saying you're trying to be edgy and cool? Seriously it's just odd?!? It must be great to be able to believe in fiction if it makes you feel more comfortable about dying, I'm sure I'll just be sh*tting myself thinking of the eternal blackness that lies ahead, but I just can't get my head around how you can believe what are basically fairy tales.
    Anyway, I can't understand why anyone believes in God but yes no one nowadays would trust their children around priests etc and they hopefully wouldn't get away with it any more so all that stuff hopefully is dead and buried. I wish they had nothing to do with our schools and hospitals but that's just another one on my list of things that are wrong with this country.
    I've no kids but if I ever did I'd like to think I could raise them without any religious influence and let them make their own minds up on these things.


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  • #67
    infogiver
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,505 ✭✭✭infogiver


    chillin117 wrote: »
    If they do, Thats fine, The point I am trying to make is, Ruling through fear is gone, Never to return.

    The ruling through fear is gone.
    The RCC is not nor will it ever be gone in Ireland.
    Humans are programmed to worship and humanity can be divided in 3 tribes.
    Libertarian ( worship themselves) Communists (worship the State) and Conservatives (worship a deity).
    There will always be enough conservatives here to ensure the survival of the Church.


  • #68
    Dr Crayfish
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,960 ✭✭✭Dr Crayfish


    The_Valeyard wrote: »
    If the word Catholic was replaced with Muslim, Jew, traveller, transgender, red cards be handed out.

    Well, none of the above are famous for widespread child abuse or oppressing this nation are they?


  • #69
    infogiver
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,505 ✭✭✭infogiver


    Dr Crayfish wrote: »
    What's this thing where if you're anti-Catholicism and atheist people come into these threads and start saying you're trying to be edgy and cool? Seriously it's just odd?!? It must be great to be able to believe in fiction if it makes you feel more comfortable about dying, I'm sure I'll just be sh*tting myself thinking of the eternal blackness that lies ahead, but I just can't get my head around how you can believe what are basically fairy tales.
    Anyway, I can't understand why anyone believes in God but yes no one nowadays would trust their children around priests etc and they hopefully wouldn't get away with it any more so all that stuff hopefully is dead and buried. I wish they had nothing to do with our schools and hospitals but that's just another one on my list of things that are wrong with this country.
    I've no kids but if I ever did I'd like to think I could raise them without any religious influence and let them make their own minds up on these things.
    I hope that if you do have kids that you have the sense not to leave them unsupervised around ANY adults unaccompanied by at least 1 other adult.
    Because Jimmy Savile and the football coach WERENT priests.


  • #70
    Yourself isit
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,256 ✭✭✭Yourself isit


    Dr Crayfish wrote: »
    Well, none of the above are famous for widespread child abuse or oppressing this nation are they?

    Depends on which nation you are talking about.


  • #71
    Huntergonzo
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,160 ✭✭✭Huntergonzo


    One eyed Jack wrote: »
    Well you could reason with them if you actually had a point. Your point that children are taught creationism over science just doesn't stand up to any scrutiny, particularly when it's weighed against the point that were it not for the education I for one received at both primary and secondary level, I would have been unlikely to progress to third level where I studied computer science and have been working in the area of software development for the last 20 odd years.

    I don't have an issue with my child being a product of the same education system you're so quick to scorn which is why I for one would look at you if you came out with such nonsense as though you're a bit out of touch with reality.

    They are taught creationism over science, there's nothing to debate there.

    Fairplay if you done well, many people do well, many don't (that's life), but how is you specifically doing well an endorsement for teaching creationism over science? I've honestly yet to see a credible argument for that, and I'm not trying to be smart or get personal, I genuinely mean that.

    Personally I felt my primary education was an embarrassment, yes I liked it at the time but when I got to secondary and started reading real science books for the first time and doing my own research (because I'm interested science and astronomy etc) I realised how much of my primary education was an utter waste of time!


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  • #72
    Dr Crayfish
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,960 ✭✭✭Dr Crayfish


    Also this is a watershed moment in boards history. 5 pages in, on a Catholicism thread, and no arsehole has come along and quoted Father Ted, thinking their absolutely hilarious. Give yourselves a round of applause.

    p.s. I know I'm opening myself to I'll put your head through a wall etc etc, so knock yourselves out.


  • #73
    infogiver
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,505 ✭✭✭infogiver


    Dr Crayfish wrote: »
    Well, none of the above are famous for widespread child abuse or oppressing this nation are they?

    What religion were the men who groomed and raped children in Rochdale?


  • #74
    Depp
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,850 ✭✭✭Depp


    Dr Crayfish wrote: »
    Well, none of the above are famous for widespread child abuse or oppressing this nation are they?

    this has to be a joke? seriously? don't want to turn this into an islam bashing thread but come on like...


  • #75
    Huntergonzo
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,160 ✭✭✭Huntergonzo


    Dr Crayfish wrote: »
    Also this is a watershed moment in boards history. 5 pages in, on a Catholicism thread, and no arsehole has come along and quoted Father Ted, thinking their absolutely hilarious. Give yourselves a round of applause.

    p.s. I know I'm opening myself to I'll put your head through a wall etc etc, so knock yourselves out.

    ARSE BISCUITS!!!


  • #76
    Dr Crayfish
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,960 ✭✭✭Dr Crayfish


    infogiver wrote: »
    I hope that if you do have kids that you have the sense not to leave them unsupervised around ANY adults unaccompanied by at least 1 other adult.
    Because Jimmy Savile and the football coach WERENT priests.

    Is that a thing now? Everyone is a suspected paedo to my (non existent) kid if they're not with another adult? Even my brother or dad?!?


  • #77
    ytpe2r5bxkn0c1
    Closed Accounts Posts: 32,688 ✭✭✭✭ytpe2r5bxkn0c1


    Dr Crayfish wrote: »
    Well, none of the above are famous for widespread child abuse or oppressing this nation are they?

    I think you need to think a bit more about that. Mass killing of ethnic groups, child slavery, suppression lf basic human rights on grounds of gender religion and sexual orientation, people trafficking, and worse have been attributed to some of them.


  • #78
    Dr Crayfish
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,960 ✭✭✭Dr Crayfish


    Depp wrote: »
    this has to be a joke? seriously? don't want to turn this into an islam bashing thread but come on like...

    I don't get it, what? Are we being oppressed by Islam?


  • #79
    Beyondgone
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,166 ✭✭✭Beyondgone


    Here was me thinking it was an epic week because Edna had deigned to go off cycling/golfing/taking cruises.. Now to hear the Catholic church has called it a day! Wow! Interesting times.

    Was there a vote? Did the Nuns not object?? Why isn't it on The Journal??


  • #80
    Depp
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,850 ✭✭✭Depp


    chillin117 wrote: »
    Nobody bashing the church, Just an observation, Now come down from that High Horse, It's Dangerous ! ffs ! Did I hit a (deeply engraved) nerve ?
    It will take a while for this to ''Wash Out''

    the thread title asks directly if you are happy to see the demise of the church? hardly a pro church thread is it? the concept is done to death on here and its getting very boring.


  • #81
    Dr Crayfish
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,960 ✭✭✭Dr Crayfish


    It is boring alright this discussion. Some people like to believe in make believe and some people don't. I do envisage an Ireland in 50 years where the church is totally separate and that's progress. Or maybe global warming will make us all poor and hungry again and we'll suddenly need to start believing in God...


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  • #82
    infogiver
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,505 ✭✭✭infogiver


    Dr Crayfish wrote: »
    Is that a thing now? Everyone is a suspected paedo to my (non existent) kid if they're not with another adult? Even my brother or dad?!?

    Over 90% of child abuse occurs within the family.
    I would hope at this stage that everyone would know that.
    If you are ushering your child protectively past the Presbytery door and then letting her go for a sleepover to another child's house without batting an eyelid then you are criminally neglectful.


  • #83
    Beyondgone
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,166 ✭✭✭Beyondgone


    Dr Crayfish wrote: »
    I don't get it, what? Are we being oppressed by Islam?

    Not yet. But give it time. I for one am wondering how the whole "You have to grow a beard" thing will play out. I grow rubbish facial hair.:(
    The Missus is in two minds about the Burqa. A bit of her reckons it'll be epic for bad hair days/I'm feeling a little bloated moments. The other bit wonders will the cut of it make her ar5e look big. I'm just dreading the whole "praying 5 times a day, no smoking and no drinking" part. It'll take 20 weeks of rehab and cold turkey to get me in line with that part.:(


  • #84
    blueser
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,894 ✭✭✭✭blueser


    Finished?


  • #85
    Depp
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,850 ✭✭✭Depp


    Dr Crayfish wrote: »
    It is boring alright this discussion. Some people like to believe in make believe and some people don't. I do envisage an Ireland in 50 years where the church is totally separate and that's progress. Or maybe global warming will make us all poor and hungry again and we'll suddenly need to start believing in God...

    I agree with this a complete seperation of church and state is the way forward, as do most who people of faith, but theres no need for the arrogance, theres more to belief in a higher power than make believe no need to be an arse about it.


  • #86
    One eyed Jack
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 25,439 ✭✭✭✭One eyed Jack


    Huntergonzo wrote: »
    They are taught creationism over science, there's nothing to debate there.

    Fairplay if you done well, many people do well, many don't (that's life), but how is you specifically doing well an endorsement for teaching creationism over science? I've honestly yet to see a credible argument for that, and I'm not trying to be smart or get personal, I genuinely mean that.

    Personally I felt my primary education was an embarrassment, yes I liked it at the time but when I got to secondary and started reading real science books for the first time and doing my own research (because I'm interested science and astronomy etc) I realised how much of my primary education was an utter waste of time!


    I can't tell if it's your misunderstanding of Catholicism, Creationism, or Science is at fault here, but rest assured your point here -

    Huntergonzo wrote: »
    The most tragic thing though is the stone age bullshít children are subjected to on a daily basis in our publicly funded primary schools. They're taught faith based creationism (in other words foundationless fairy stories) over scientific fact.....tragic.


    Is simply incorrect.

    From what I can tell of the rest of your post, you developed an interest in science in secondary school (a bit late to the table, I was interested in science in primary school myself), and now in primary school it's part of the national curriculum as Social, Environmental and Scientific Education (SESE).

    You see, I love science, I'm all over science, anything I can get my hands on, but I also enjoy studying religion, languages, cultures, the Arts (politics is a bit meh, but it's a necessary component of studying sociology which is a social science!), and rather than take the point of view that they have to contradict and conflict with each other, my mind just happens to have enough processing power if you will, to be able to compartmentalise the various concepts in all of these different fields.

    None of which would have been possible had I not received the minimum standard of education required by the State in an educational facility of my parents choosing (well, my mother was a teacher in the primary school I attended!), as was their right as my parents, a right protected by the Irish Constitution.

    You shouldn't be embarrassed by your education either, it's given you the means to be able to communicate your ideas to other people, some who may agree with you, and some who may not. That same rationale would obviously apply to any number of subjects.


  • #87
    Huntergonzo
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,160 ✭✭✭Huntergonzo


    One eyed Jack wrote: »
    Is simply incorrect.

    From what I can tell of the rest of your post, you developed an interest in science in secondary school (a bit late to the table, I was interested in science in primary school myself), and now in primary school it's part of the national curriculum as Social, Environmental and Scientific Education (SESE).

    Bit presumptuous and smug I must say One eyed Jack, how do you know I wasn't interested in science in primary school? And also how do you know much time and interest my primary school dedicated to science? The answer is very little by the way, but religion and the Catholic creation story was given a substantial amount of time.
    One eyed Jack wrote: »
    You see, I love science, I'm all over science, anything I can get my hands on, but I also enjoy studying religion, languages, cultures, the Arts (politics is a bit meh, but it's a necessary component of studying sociology which is a social science!), and rather than take the point of view that they have to contradict and conflict with each other, my mind just happens to have enough processing power if you will, to be able to compartmentalise the various concepts in all of these different fields.

    None of which would have been possible had I not received the minimum standard of education required by the State in an educational facility of my parents choosing (well, my mother was a teacher in the primary school I attended!), as was their right as my parents, a right protected by the Irish Constitution.

    You shouldn't be embarrassed by your education either, it's given you the means to be able to communicate your ideas to other people, some who may agree with you, and some who may not. That same rationale would obviously apply to any number of subjects.

    Sorry I'm too stupid to understand all those purty words and sentences, can you please dumb it down for little ole me?


  • #88
    Yourself isit
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,256 ✭✭✭Yourself isit


    Huntergonzo wrote: »
    They are taught creationism over science, there's nothing to debate there.

    Fairplay if you done well, many people do well, many don't (that's life), but how is you specifically doing well an endorsement for teaching creationism over science? I've honestly yet to see a credible argument for that, and I'm not trying to be smart or get personal, I genuinely mean that.

    Personally I felt my primary education was an embarrassment, yes I liked it at the time but when I got to secondary and started reading real science books for the first time and doing my own research (because I'm interested science and astronomy etc) I realised how much of my primary education was an utter waste of time!

    Where is creationism taught in Irish schools?


  • #89
    Huntergonzo
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,160 ✭✭✭Huntergonzo


    Yourself isit wrote: »
    Where is creationism taught in Irish schools?

    In the ones with a religious ethos, which is most of them.


  • #90
    lazybones32
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,647 ✭✭✭lazybones32


    Church is far from finished; it might currently be in decline in attendance etc; but that means squat. Foreign missionaries will come to ireland if needed.
    An institution that's been here for about 1,400 years won't disappear quickly.

    Saudi Arabia, China, N Korea and the Maldives are the only Countries without a RCC presence. China has a State controlled version; NK has a church but no known priest (underground church most likely); can't remember the maldives story and the Saudi's have no churches but Mass is celebrated in consulates - which are foreign soil, so doesn't count.

    The RCC is global: don't expect it to disappear.


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  • #91
    Permabear
    Closed Accounts Posts: 38,989 ✭✭✭✭Permabear


    This post has been deleted.


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