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Irish* political activist arrested in pre dawn raid by foreign regime- call the PBP!!

  • 10-05-2017 08:45PM
    #1
    C Montgomery Gurns II
    Closed Accounts Posts: 264 ✭✭


    *while I don't know if he possesses an Irish passport, he is an Irish citizen via his parents if he has/ does decide to take it up.

    https://www.therebel.media/save_tommy

    So, in a foreign land, an Irish firebrand political activist has been arrested. The man was ordered to leave what you might describe as a protest, outside a court house, and presumably complied as he was not arrested on the spot, but rather was later arrested at 4am the following morning. A dawn raid against a person accused of an offence not relating to bodily harm, terrorism, firearms offences, robbery or drug trafficking is surely unheard of- most such offences would surely involve an afternoon knock on the door and an invite for a talk, at most. To door slam at 4am for a non violent offence is surely unprecedented.

    Some people accuse Tommy Robinson of either being, or at least being sympathetic with, individuals and movements who advocate racism, sectarianism, misogyny and homophobia.

    Some people accuse Ibrahim Halawa of either being, or at least being sympathetic with, individuals and movements who advocate racism, sectarianism, misogyny and homophobia.


    This is not a troll thread- this is a test of whether this site cares or not for rational debate about two Irish citizens and political activists, of different nationality, arrested in disputed circumstances in a foreign state.

    A white, Irish * (given that he is entitled to a passport we will call him such, whether he has one or not) man in a foreign country was arrested over a peaceful protest, in circumstances normally reserved for suspects involved in activity so dangerous that the safest option is to seize them when they are likely asleep.

    A dark skinned Irish citizen is arrested during what his supporters initially claimed was a situation of wrong place wrong time, which turned out to be an armed rebellion in which several police officers were killed.


    Again, this is not a troll thread. This is a legitimate question- will our hard left, and our government, give the same support to one Irish citizen jailed abroad on politically motivated charges as they will to another jailed abroad on politically motivated charges? Both men face the same accusations against them- of being racist, sectarian, misogynistic and homophobic(although to be fair to Tommy Robinson I can't think of a specific time he has been accused of links to movements involved in misogny and homophobia, unlike Ibrahim Halawa)

    Note for mods- I have read the charter. Again and again. There is not a single rule broken here, if you have a rule with something I posted, please discuss it via PM and I shall remove, if we agree it violates the charter.


Comments

  • #2
    osarusan
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,060 ✭✭✭✭osarusan


    I think this might be a troll thread.


  • #3
    nhunter100
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,990 ✭✭✭nhunter100


    C Montgomery Gurns II wrote:
    Some people accuse Tommy Robinson of either being, or at least being sympathetic with, individuals and movements who advocate racism, sectarianism, misogyny and homophobia.


    Is this guys real name Stephen Christopher Yaxley Lennon co founder of the English Defence League?


  • #4
    ytpe2r5bxkn0c1
    Closed Accounts Posts: 32,688 ✭✭✭✭ytpe2r5bxkn0c1


    B'ah!


  • #5
    C Montgomery Gurns II
    Closed Accounts Posts: 264 ✭✭C Montgomery Gurns II


    nhunter100 wrote: »
    Is this guys real name Stephen Christopher Yaxley Lennon co founder of the English Defence League?

    I do believe it is.

    A bit like Ibrahim Halawa spells his name on FB as Ebraheem Halawa on the video where he posts about apostates to Christianity from Islam burning in hell. What's your point?


    This, however, is not meant to be a discussion on Halawa- there is a thread on that over in Politics Cafe. I opened this thread to ask why one Irishman living abroad accused of racism, homophobia, misogyny and sectarianism is less worthy of government, political and hard left attention than a different, younger, darker Irishman imprisoned abroad accused of racism, homophobia, misogyny and sectarianism.


  • #6
    nhunter100
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,990 ✭✭✭nhunter100


    C Montgomery Gurns II wrote:
    A bit like Ibrahim Halawa spells his name on FB as Ebraheem Halawa on the video where he posts about apostates to Christianity from Islam burning in hell. What's your point?


    What's my point, let me see ( just so you're aware the Halawa fellow is where he should be until he is dealt with by the Egytian authorities, their country their rules) first of all to use 3 alias' s raises a few questions tbh,secondly whilst his parents are Irish he's not and is not an Irish citizen so fail to see why as Irish we should have an interest in an English ultra nationalist.


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  • #7
    ytpe2r5bxkn0c1
    Closed Accounts Posts: 32,688 ✭✭✭✭ytpe2r5bxkn0c1


    Who says he's Irish? If he's not born here and, regardless of parentage, doesn't have an Irish Passport then he isn't Irish. Indeed his activities suggest he considers himself very much English - not even British but English.


    Good try though.
    Well actually a very poor attempt.


  • #8
    C Montgomery Gurns II
    Closed Accounts Posts: 264 ✭✭C Montgomery Gurns II


    Dilan Bald Loudmouth wrote: »
    Who says he's Irish? If he's not born here and, regardless of parentage, doesn't have an Irish Passport then he isn't Irish. Indeed his activities suggest he considers himself very much English.

    Ibrahim Halawa's activities suggest he considers himself very much caliphatist (from my memory Islaimists don't hold pride in any particular nationality, the caliphate united state is king.)


  • #9
    SEPT 23 1989
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 43,038 ✭✭✭✭SEPT 23 1989


    Tommy or Ibrahim

    Tough choice


  • #10
    nhunter100
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,990 ✭✭✭nhunter100


    C Montgomery Gurns II wrote:
    Ibrahim Halawa's activities suggest he considers himself very much caliphatist (from my memory Islaimists don't hold pride in any particular nationality, the caliphate united state is king.)


    As you said this thread is not about Halawa sperate thread for the Egyptian lad. Any proof you care to offer that Stephan/ Tommy is an Irish citizen.


  • #11
    nhunter100
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,990 ✭✭✭nhunter100


    SEPT 23 1989 wrote:
    Tommy or Ibrahim


    Doesn't have to be either Tommy is English no Irish passport and Ibrahim has dual citizenship Irish/Egyptian but under Egyptian law his Egyptian citizenship holds trumps.


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  • #12
    Little CuChulainn
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,624 ✭✭✭Little CuChulainn


    Sounds like he tried to breach the confidentiality of a trial involving a sex crime against a minor. Hopefully his actions haven't hindered the prosecution.


  • #13
    The_Valeyard
    Closed Accounts Posts: 12,452 ✭✭✭✭The_Valeyard


    So.....

    my understanding is,

    Tommy K, the DJ,

    was arrested for using for using his home made twin deck sounds?

    Although could have been for the Locomotion, dancing shoes, Mashed Potato or Boogalloo.


  • #14
    C Montgomery Gurns II
    Closed Accounts Posts: 264 ✭✭C Montgomery Gurns II


    nhunter100 wrote: »
    As you said this thread is not about Halawa sperate thread for the Egyptian lad. Any proof you care to offer that Stephan/ Tommy is an Irish citizen.

    Any proof that he isn't?


    I don't know how old you are (although I could hazard a guess), but back circa 2004 a man from Liverpool named Ken Bigley was held hostage in Iraq. Although he had never held an Irish passport before, one was rushed through and paraded on TV to persuade his kidnappers that he wasn't an out and out Brit, that he hailed from a "neutral" (internet was haphazard back then, hopefully they'd never heard of Shannon) country (it failed, they beheaded him soon after).

    It seems you have some sort of objection to Stephen Lennon undertaking his constitutional rights under Irish law, if he hasn't done so already (given his brushes with the law I would be VERY surprised if Lennon/ Robinson doesn't own a spare Irish passport for emergencies), but have a strong support for some lad who has posted videos on apostates from Islam burning in hell.

    I would ask you to explain but I could car less- I'm more intrigued by the Irish establishment's treatment of one "son of Ireland" vs another " son of Ireland".


  • #15
    ytpe2r5bxkn0c1
    Closed Accounts Posts: 32,688 ✭✭✭✭ytpe2r5bxkn0c1


    C Montgomery Gurns II wrote: »
    Ibrahim Halawa's activities suggest he considers himself very much caliphatist (from my memory Islaimists don't hold pride in any particular nationality, the caliphate united state is king.)

    And where did I express any interest in him either? His status doesn't change the basic error in your argument.


  • #16
    Richard Hillman
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,033 ✭✭✭✭Richard Hillman


    Politically and socially both people that have been highlighted would be both quite right wing. Halawa would be further to the right.

    Tis a strange one.


  • #17
    C Montgomery Gurns II
    Closed Accounts Posts: 264 ✭✭C Montgomery Gurns II


    Dilan Bald Loudmouth wrote: »
    And where did I express any interest in him either? His status doesn't change the basic error in your argument.

    And what is the basic error, exactly?

    We have two political activists, both Irishmen abroad (despite place of birth and despite race), both arrested in circumstances disputed by their supporters, on opposite sides of the political spectrum, but yet both are accused of the same shortlist of identical prejudices.

    My question being, why does the Irish establishment care more for Halawa than they do for Lennon/ Robinson?


    It's nearly a bit like how a Syrian family arriving in Ireland tonght will be living in their "forever home" by late August at most, but Irish people who unwisely gambled their predicted 35 year income on a forever home in 2007 are living in hotel rooms begging for help off the LA. But here, as they used to say in Catholic Ireland about athiesm "don't let anyone hear you saying that yil be out of your job"


  • #18
    ytpe2r5bxkn0c1
    Closed Accounts Posts: 32,688 ✭✭✭✭ytpe2r5bxkn0c1


    C Montgomery Gurns II wrote: »
    And what is the basic error, exactly?

    We have two political activists, both Irishmen abroad (despite place of birth and despite race), both arrested in circumstances disputed by their supporters, on opposite sides of the political spectrum, but yet both are accused of the same shortlist of identical prejudices.

    My question being, why does the Irish establishment care more for Halawa than they do for Lennon/ Robinson?


    It's nearly a bit like how a Syrian family arriving in Ireland tonght will be living in their "forever home" by late August at most, but Irish people who unwisely gambled their predicted 35 year income on a forever home in 2007 are living in hotel rooms begging for help off the LA. But here, as they used to say in Catholic Ireland about athiesm "don't let anyone hear you saying that yil be out of your job"
    I thought you emphasised that this was NOT about Halawa .

    You also were at pains to convince that this was not trolling.

    Bye.


  • #19
    nhunter100
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,990 ✭✭✭nhunter100


    C Montgomery Gurns II wrote:
    *while I don't know if he possesses an Irish passport, he is an Irish citizen via his parents if he has/ does decide to take it up.


    This by your own admission. Plus the fact he is one of the founders of the ultra nationalist EDL. Him having an Irish passport would be similar to Gobbels having an Isreali passport if they existed at the time.


  • #20
    nhunter100
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,990 ✭✭✭nhunter100


    C Montgomery Gurns II wrote:
    I don't know how old you are (although I could hazard a guess), but back circa 2004 a man from Liverpool named Ken Bigley was held hostage in Iraq. Although he had never held an Irish passport before, one was rushed through and paraded on TV to persuade his kidnappers that he wasn't an out and out Brit, that he hailed from a "neutral" (internet was haphazard back then, hopefully they'd never heard of Shannon) country (it failed, they beheaded him soon after).


    Different scenario and you know it.


  • #21
    nhunter100
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,990 ✭✭✭nhunter100


    C Montgomery Gurns II wrote:
    It seems you have some sort of objection to Stephen Lennon undertaking his constitutional rights under Irish law, if he hasn't done so already (given his brushes with the law I would be VERY surprised if Lennon/ Robinson doesn't own a spare Irish passport for emergencies), but have a strong support for some lad who has posted videos on apostates from Islam burning in hell.


    He's broken English law and he's English by birth and citizenship, so he enjoys no rights under our constitution as it does not apply in England.


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  • #22
    C Montgomery Gurns II
    Closed Accounts Posts: 264 ✭✭C Montgomery Gurns II


    nhunter100 wrote: »
    This by your own admission. Plus the fact he is one of the founders of the ultra nationalist EDL. Him having an Irish passport would be similar to Gobbels having an Isreali passport if they existed at the time.

    You seem to be confusing a movement that allows Jews, Sikhs, Hindus and moderate Muslims to join with the Nazis, a party that only allowed people with verified 100% German blood from the late 1700's to join its higher ranks, but here, who cares for facts and logic when hysterical accusations and conjecture will do.


  • #23
    amcalester
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,097 ✭✭✭amcalester


    C Montgomery Gurns II wrote: »
    Any proof that he isn't?

    Can't prove a negative.


  • #24
    nhunter100
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,990 ✭✭✭nhunter100


    C Montgomery Gurns II wrote:
    You seem to be confusing a movement that allows Jews, Sikhs, Hindus and moderate Muslims to join with the Nazis, a party that only allowed people with verified 100% German blood from the late 1700's to join its higher ranks, but here, who cares for facts and logic when hysterical accusations and conjecture will do.


    Well judging by your first post and your own omission about who Robinson really is, you seem to have quite a disinterest in facts yourself. You claimed he was an Irish political activist and yet you don't know if he is an Irish citizen, do you see a slight credibility problem?


  • #25
    C Montgomery Gurns II
    Closed Accounts Posts: 264 ✭✭C Montgomery Gurns II


    nhunter100 wrote: »
    Well judging by your first post and your own omission about who Robinson really is, you seem to have quite a disinterest in facts yourself. You claimed he was an Irish political activist and yet you don't know if he is an Irish citizen, do you see a slight credibility problem?

    And you don't know if Halawa burned his passport. So what?


  • #26
    amcalester
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,097 ✭✭✭amcalester


    C Montgomery Gurns II wrote: »
    And you don't know if Halawa burned his passport. So what?

    In a thread that is absolutely not about Halawa you're mentioning him an awful lot, 8 times so far by my count.


  • #27
    nhunter100
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,990 ✭✭✭nhunter100


    C Montgomery Gurns II wrote:
    And you don't know if Halawa burned his passport. So what?


    In your OP you claimed this thread is not about Halawa yet what's this the 4th reference you have made to him? You were actually at pains to insist it was not about the Egyptian lad. I think as another poster has said,
    you are trolling.
    I'm out.


  • #28
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 22,384 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    This thread is a mess.

    I have no big sympathy for Halawa...but the suggestion that our Constitution might protect Tommy Robinson is simply wrong. He is an Englishman. The premise that we should do anything for him is just sheer nonsense.


  • #29
    C Montgomery Gurns II
    Closed Accounts Posts: 264 ✭✭C Montgomery Gurns II


    Deleted User wrote: »
    This thread is a mess.

    I have no big sympathy for Halawa...but the suggestion that our Constitution might protect Tommy Robinson is simply wrong. He is an Englishman. The premise that we should do anything for him is just sheer nonsense.

    I'm not suggesting that we do. I am asking why our government and our media are not fawning over a man entitled to citizenship (and with a record like his he almost certanly has a spare passport) who is accused of holding the same prejudices as a darling of the left wing. It is racism, nothing more nothing less. Same as our housing policy- a lifelong taxpayer and his family on a rough patch has less rights to permanent accommodation within 3 months than a Syrian refugee family.


  • #30
    tomwaterford
    Closed Accounts Posts: 16,768 ✭✭✭✭tomwaterford


    C Montgomery Gurns II wrote: »
    I'm not suggesting that we do. I am asking why our government and our media are not fawning over a man entitled to citizenship (and with a record like his he almost certanly has a spare passport) who is accused of holding the same prejudices as a darling of the left wing. It is racism, nothing more nothing less. Same as our housing policy- a lifelong taxpayer on a rough patch has less rights to permanent accommodation than a Syrian refugee family.


    I think the fact he founded the english defense league.....

    pretty much shows he has no interest in having an irish passport??



    Has he ever even been to ireland


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  • #31
    Peregrine
    Moderators, Education Moderators Posts: 26,424 Mod ✭✭✭✭Peregrine


    C Montgomery Gurns II wrote: »
    Note for mods- I have read the charter. Again and again. There is not a single rule broken here, if you have a rule with something I posted, please discuss it via PM and I shall remove, if we agree it violates the charter.

    Really? Give it another read.
    dr.bollocko wrote: »
    Please do not post any more political threads in After Hours

    If it's major political event, we let a thread run because it's impossible to contain them but given that nobody here knows what you're talking about or seem bothered, I'm going to say that it's not a major political event.


This discussion has been closed.
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