Head all over the place

ManOfMystery · 09-05-2017 09:48AM

I know you're living with him and invested in a relationship OP, but I think you know this is the end of the line.

It's bad enough that he cheated. It's worse that he cheated at a place where you were literally round the corner. At this stage, most men would be very apologetic once they've been found out and blame it on drink/etc. But here is where it gets even worse again - he's not sorry at all. He even attempts to justify it by saying ALL men do it, and then just to make himself an even bigger prat, he shows a misogynistic streak by claiming he wouldn't stand for it if a woman did it to him.

Not all men cheat. It's pretty predictable that he would say that to justify his own actions. His complete lack of regret pretty much makes it clear that he will do this again, multiple times. And kissing might be as far as he goes when you're there, when you're not there or he's away with mates for a weekend I'm sure you could expect it to go much farther.

So you have to ask yourself - he might be a good boyfriend the rest of the time and treat you well generally, but are you prepared to be in a relationship with zero trust, knowing that your partner treats it as an open relationship and has absolutely no regard for your feelings on the matter?

Ursus Horribilis · 09-05-2017 09:49AM

It's obvious from your post that you're desperately trying to find reasons to make it OK to stay. You regret having shouted at him. You've also seized on the comments about it being easy to just say "leave" and are twisting them to your own end. What you might not know is that sometimes on this forum, some posters go straight for the "Dump him" option. That might be the nuance you're missing as it gets brought up here. It's not always the right advice and relationships can be saved.

In this case, though, there is absolutely nothing to save. You have been told in very clear terms that your boyfriend has no intention of being faithful to you. He's using you as the safety net and the keeper of the nice home he can come back to after he has had his fun.

Something nobody has mentioned yet are STIs (Edit :I see they did while I was writing this) If this is his attitude towards "monogamous" relationships and towards you, nobody can say for sure how many women he has had sex with since you met. Going by the way he denied that he had kissed this woman, he's certainly not going to be giving you truthful answers about his other endeavours. He has put your sexual health at risk and I strongly advise you to go get checked. Some sexually transmitted diseases have no symptoms at all. Chlamydia is one of the more notorious ones and if you have contacted that, it could render you infertile.

And yeah, please don't come away thinking all men are like this. They're not. You unfortunately have fallen for one of the bad ones. It's going to be traumatic for you to end the relationship but that's no reason to stay in it.

lawred2 · 09-05-2017 10:03AM

sallyanne12 wrote: »

Thank you to everyone for all your advice. I really appreciate everyone helping me. It really is difficult as a poster pointed out, it's easy to say leave but hard when you're so invested.
So I couldn't keep it to myself and I told him I saw. He denied it and said he didn't kiss anyone. Then I got cross, looked him in the eye and said "I saw you clearly right in front of me. You have to admit it because I stood there and waited for several seconds and it was clear to me what was happening, you both wanted it to happen"
Once he knew he was caught, he then said "it didn't mean anything, you're overreacting" I wish I could control myself but I shouted at him And he reacted as if I was crazy. He said all men do that and that I'll never find anyone who doesn't. He said any man who says he wouldn't take an opportunity like that is lying. He said he wants me for life and it won't happen again when I kept asking if it would ever happen again. But his whole attitude towards it worries me. He doesn't see it as wrong. He said all men do it. He said men pick a woman for life and have fun with easy girls. He said it's just fun and doesn't mean anything. What if he gets someone pregnant? Is it still just fun? I don't think he realises how serious it is.
I questioned him "how would you feel if I kissed a boy" and he said "I'd leave you, it's so much worse a girl doing it." I asked how and he said "it's in mens nature and to never make a mistake is to fight against nature. Look I'm with you and I am good to you on a daily basis. You shouldn't look at one mistake. Look at the bigger picture." He is a very good boyfriend and before this happened I couldn't fault him

I fear that you've got Stockholm syndrome. He is clearly not a "good boyfriend". He has admitted to you straight up that he will cheat on you. If you stay with him then you have given him the green light to do so.

So it's up to you now really. Either dump him and move on to someone who is actually a "good boyfriend" or stay with him and accept that he will cheat and again accept it when he does. Staying with him now would effectively amount to tacit approval.

You know this yourself surely? Don't you?

Also not all men cheat. In fact, most men don't cheat.

Mr. Incognito · 09-05-2017 10:12AM

You have a LOT to be thankful for.

1. That you caught him

2. That he has shown his true colours.

3. That you have an opportunity to get out.

And that all of that has happened before you have bought a house, had children, have loans together etc.

Leave. Leave today. Tell your family and friends and build a wall around you that ensures that you will never be able to go back to him.

Big Bag of Chips · 09-05-2017 10:59AM

He has now told you what a lifelong relationship with him is going to be. (This is NOT the first time, by the way!)

So now you can decide. If you're happy for this to be your relationship for the next 50 or so years, off you go.

If you decide you don't want this to be your relationship, then you end it. He can then find someone who wants the type of relationship he is offering.

You do have a choice.

Edit: I would think that there probably are many men who carry on like him. You just have to read a few threads here to find out how many people (men and women) have been cheated on in their relationships. I'd like to think cheating on your gf, while she is there with you on a night out is a low that even most serial cheaters wouldn't stoop to, though. Whatever excuse he uses for nights he goes out without you, to do it when you're out with him is just a whole other level of disrespect.

sashafierce · 09-05-2017 11:32AM

This post has been deleted.

stargazer 68 · 09-05-2017 11:46AM

Op as others have said this is not the first time and it won't be the last - he has told you this to your face. The guy is an a**. It's time to think about yourself now and get out while you can. I'm sure when friends and family find out it won't be a surprise to them!

stop animal cruelty · 09-05-2017 11:52AM

Op you deserve much better than this. His excuse is laughable. I believe if someone truly loves you they wouldn't even THINK about hurting you in any way. His behaviour and excuse proves his lack of respect for u and his level of immaturity.

There's better out there. No one deserves to be hurt like that. He could have at least fully accepted he did wrong,and not tale u for a fool.

For your own sake, dump him op. He will more than likely hurt you again. Be brave.

Suzyq · 09-05-2017 12:13PM

I think that he wants to break up but is too chicken to do it himself so is behaving as obnoxiously as possible to force your hand.

valoren · 09-05-2017 12:31PM

In no way whatsoever has he even given any semblance of an apology to you.

He gave you excuses, not an apology. That is the telling part here OP. You didn't even get the courtesy of an apology from him.
While we may not be emotionally invested in the relationship, we can read between the lines.

That he made a mistake and apologized, begged for forgiveness from you is one thing. He did no such thing. He freely cheated on you, lied to you about it, insulted your intelligence and belittled you should tell you all you need to know about the kind of 'man' he believes himself to be and the future of your relationship. He might honestly believe that he did nothing wrong which in itself is bizarre but can happen. And the idea that if you cheated he would dump you immediately? Take a leaf out of his book perhaps.

Look at this positively. You could have spent years with this dope unaware of his antics, of him making a fool out of you. You know now what he is like and his rationale for acting like a 'man'. The choice to continue with him is entirely yours but he has made it expressly clear to you that this will not be a committed relationship whatsoever. That's been firmly established by this clown.

beans · 09-05-2017 12:52PM

He's incorrect in his assertion that every man would act similarly.

DaeryssaOne · 09-05-2017 01:39PM

It's far down in the list of terrible attitude problems this guy has but the outright sexism of him stuns me. That it's in men's 'nature' to cheat but not in women's has to be one of the stupidest, most old-fashioned things I've read on here in a long time!

OP you may worry that you won't find anyone after him - that you love him and that maybe you could turn a blind eye to it but you know you're worth far more than that. How dare he assume you're so worthless that you would just put up with this awful behaviour?

Get out now before he hurts you even more!

Cupcake_Crisis · 09-05-2017 07:23PM

If you stay with him op this will be your lot for life. By the sounds of it he just doesn't care that he hurt you. You will be his doormat until he decides to leave you. His entire attitude screams that this isn't the first time he's played away, and his response says that it won't be the last.

If I were you I'd be sussing out my living arrangements. If you can afford the rent on your own I'd be telling him to get his stuff and get out. If you can't afford the rent I'd be looking for temporary accommodation and leaving him.

SimpleDimples · 09-05-2017 08:01PM

You seem very reluctant to dump this asshole.

He has already proven:

He lies to you
He has no problem with cheating on you
He is doesn't care if he gets caught
He doesn't apologise
He has all but said he'll do it again

If you don't leave him, imagine what life with him is going to be in horrific knowing that he will do it again, you'll be at risk of getting an sti as he'll continue to cheat, he has no respect for you. The hurt you are feeling now is only going to increase as he does this again over and over.

I was in college with a girl who had a boyfriend just like him. He cheated regularly and she knew of at least 5 occassions. The rest of us knew about many more times than that and begged her to walk away but she never did. He eventually fathered a child as a result of his cheating and she still didn't leave. She developed an eating disorder & what i suspect is a drink problem as her self esteem continued to be eroded by his behaviour. She wasted all of her 20s this guy before he eventually got sick of his **** and is still trying to build up her confidence and has major problems trusting people who do treat her well. Do you want a life like hers? Because you are always going to be hurt & lonely with a guy like this.

There are millions of decent men in the world, why would you set yourself up for a life of misery with this man? You deserve better than this. Please dump him now, it's only going to get worse.

sallyanne12 · 09-05-2017 11:08PM

Hi it's me Sallyanne, I want to say thank you so much to all of you posters. I haven't made my decision yet but I am staying in my parents until I do. Cheating is not something I will accept going forward. I would never be happy with that. He told me it wouldn't happen again but his explanations completely contradicted what he said. It was clear he had no guilt. He even said "you'd swear I f...d her the way you're acting."
I don't know why but I've started to feel upset with the girl doing that to me. How can women treat each other so badly. She knew I was with him, we were introduced as a couple. I never would do anything wrong to anyone. Why do I deserve it. I have been a bit distant with my main friend from that night. The girl who kissed my boyfriend is her best friend. I really care for my friend and don't want to upset her by telling her what happened. I feel let down and upset to ever meet that girl again. She knew she is so much more sexier than me and had to prove it to me. I feel very low. I'd love her to explain why she did it as I was very polite to her and friendly and made an effort to talk to her earlier in the night. somebody mentioned that they'd be surprised if kissing is all they did. It reminded me how the girl looked afterwards. Her hair was a complete mess and I did notice my boyfriend fly was open (obviously he could have forgot to close it after using the toilet.. I'm imaging the worst case scenario) it made me wonder did more go on than kissing. After I saw, I was standing at the bar for a good 30 minutes until they reappeared, highly unlikely they had sex in a toilet is it? My head is a mess is an understatement

SimpleDimples · 09-05-2017 11:15PM

sallyanne12 wrote: »

Hi it's me Sallyanne, I want to say thank you so much to all of you posters. I haven't made my decision yet but I am staying in my parents until I do. Cheating is not something I will accept going forward. I would never be happy with that. He told me it wouldn't happen again but his explanations completely contradicted what he said. It was clear he had no guilt. He even said "you'd swear I f...d her the way you're acting."
I don't know why but I've started to feel upset with the girl doing that to me. How can women treat each other so badly. She knew I was with him, we were introduced as a couple. I never would do anything wrong to anyone. Why do I deserve it. I have been a bit distant with my main friend from that night. The girl who kissed my boyfriend is her best friend. I really care for my friend and don't want to upset her by telling her what happened. I feel let down and upset to ever meet that girl again. She knew she is so much more sexier than me and had to prove it to me. I feel very low. I'd love her to explain why she did it as I was very polite to her and friendly and made an effort to talk to her earlier in the night. somebody mentioned that they'd be surprised if kissing is all they did. It reminded me how the girl looked afterwards. Her hair was a complete mess and I did notice my boyfriend fly was open (obviously he could have forgot to close it after using the toilet.. I'm imaging the worst case scenario) it made me wonder did more go on than kissing. After I saw, I was standing at the bar for a good 30 minutes until they reappeared, highly unlikely they had sex in a toilet is it? My head is a mess is an understatement

I don't mean to be rude and i understand you are upset but you aren't listening to the advice being given at all. You are searching for excuses to remain with him. You are redirecting your anger towards her. Being blunt, she owes you nothing. He is the one who is supposed to respect you. If it wasn't her it would be someone else.

Stay with him if you want but at least understand what you are setting yourself up for.

Have you heard of the saying- listen to someone when they tell you who theybare. He has told you he is a cheat.

Where are you going to draw the line? You accept him kissing someone else in front of you? If you catch him shagging someone, will you then accept that too.

09-05-2017 11:22PM

You are just trying to blame this girl to justify staying in a relationship with an asshole.
Just stop.
He has told you exactly how he feels about you & relationships. I wouldn't live my life like that, none of my friends would put up with living like that. Maybe you're happy enough being treated like crap, bit you shouldn't be.
Sorry if that sounds harsh.
I work with majority men in my job, 85% of them are not like your boyfriend. They love their wives, they love their families. They have a different attitude to your boyfriend. So, there are decent men out there.
Dump your boyfriend, and some day you will find someone decent.

LostTazMan · 09-05-2017 11:41PM

Sallyanne, I am a man. I wouldn't treat my wife like that. None of my male friends would treat their girlfriends/partners like that. His behaviour was completely out of line, and the longer you tolerate it the longer it will be until you find a real boyfriend.

If it was one of your friends telling you how their boyfriend treated them what would you say to them?

dmm82 · 09-05-2017 11:43PM

I have to agree with everyone here. I know how hard this must be for you and I find fact you're even considering staying with him really sad

you deserve so much better.

About the girl in question, how good looking/ sexy she was doesn't really matter. He would be cheating on her too if she was his girlfriend, its all about the ego boost for him. Look at all the stunning celebrities who have their partners cheat on them! Looks are irrelevant, a cheater is a cheater so dont be letting yourself believe this is anything to do with what you look like.

People like him are nasty and will never change. Please see sense.

Ursus Horribilis · 09-05-2017 11:44PM

I don't know why I'm surprised to read that you've not broken up with him. It's blatantly obvious that you're terrified of being single and you're going to stay with this guy. It's good to see you're getting in some early practice when it comes to blanking out the blatantly obvious signs of cheating. This week it's messy hair and an open fly. The next it'll be lipstick on collars, the smell of women's perfume and unexpected absences.

Your anger at this woman is totally misdirected. So bloody what if she's smokin' hot sex on legs? If your "boyfriend" had an ounce of decency he wouldn't have stuck his tongue down her throat (or more). Unless of course you buy into the theory that men have no self-control and that it's all the woman's fault.

Anyway, best of luck to you in your future. I hope your future kids won't be too scarred by living in a home with a philandering dad and a doormat of a mother. This, Sallyanne, is the future which lies ahead for you if you're not brave and end this now. I hope you can talk to someone about this. Your mum maybe? Stop internalising this and talk it out with somebody, anybody.

dee_mc · 10-05-2017 12:34AM

You're afraid of hurting your friend by telling her that your boyfriend blatantly cheated on you with her other friend?! Come on! I'd put money on it that everyone else knows already, and to be honest, the chances are that this isn't the first time he's done it, only the first time you've caught him, so the chances are at least one of your friends has seen him in action before, even if they didn't see him cheating on you on the particular night that you did.
You deserve better than this guy!
You're bleating here about 'how could this relative stranger do this to me, she's friends with my friends, she was introduced to us as a couple' but come on, she owes you nothing! He's your boyfriend who committed to living with you, he has cheated on you in a public place surrounded by your friends, he's lied to your face about it then lied again by telling you every man engages in this lowlife behaviour, he's told you it won't happen again but with absolutely zero sincerity, and now you're saying you saw her with sex hair and him with his flies untied after half an hour of doing the obvious?! He owes you so much more than this!
What hold does this guy have over you?
Why do you believe yourself unworthy of being in an equal, loving, faithful relationship?
That you would even consider continuing to build a future with this scumbag, continue to invest your time and love in this farce of a relationship is mindblowingly sad to me.
I said it in my original comment on this thread and I'll repeat it because you need to hear it again: get help with your confidence and self-worth issues, have some self respect, otherwise you'll be saddled with this cheating, disrespectful excuse for a man for life, or more likely, until he tires of you.

Hannibal_Smith · 10-05-2017 07:13AM

sallyanne12 wrote: »

Hi it's me Sallyanne, I want to say thank you so much to all of you posters. I haven't made my decision yet but I am staying in my parents until I do. Cheating is not something I will accept going forward. I would never be happy with that. He told me it wouldn't happen again but his explanations completely contradicted what he said. It was clear he had no guilt. He even said "you'd swear I f...d her the way you're acting."
I don't know why but I've started to feel upset with the girl doing that to me. How can women treat each other so badly. She knew I was with him, we were introduced as a couple. I never would do anything wrong to anyone. Why do I deserve it. I have been a bit distant with my main friend from that night. The girl who kissed my boyfriend is her best friend. I really care for my friend and don't want to upset her by telling her what happened. I feel let down and upset to ever meet that girl again. She knew she is so much more sexier than me and had to prove it to me. I feel very low. I'd love her to explain why she did it as I was very polite to her and friendly and made an effort to talk to her earlier in the night. somebody mentioned that they'd be surprised if kissing is all they did. It reminded me how the girl looked afterwards. Her hair was a complete mess and I did notice my boyfriend fly was open (obviously he could have forgot to close it after using the toilet.. I'm imaging the worst case scenario) it made me wonder did more go on than kissing. After I saw, I was standing at the bar for a good 30 minutes until they reappeared, highly unlikely they had sex in a toilet is it? My head is a mess is an understatement

The other woman is not in a relationship with you. She owes you nothing. The only person you should be mad at and who you should be distancing yourself from is your boyfriend. So what if she kissed some bloke in a pub who was in a couple? She owes no loyalty to you. Your boyfriend does. And the fact that you're more mad with her than with him is a surprise.

It's unlikely they had sex in the toilet is it?

Chances are you haven't asked your boyfriend that question. The reason being you wouldn't trust the answer he'd give you. The fact you don't know your boyfriend well enough to know whether he'd have sex with a stranger in a public toilet while you're at the bar...

GingerLily · 10-05-2017 07:28AM

OP, are you not humiliated thinking of how many of your friends know your boyfriend openly cheats on you? They must all know by now, how can carry on lying to yourself that this is something you can sweep under the carpet?

Meauldsegosha · 10-05-2017 08:51AM

sallyanne12 wrote: »

I feel let down and upset to ever meet that girl again. She knew she is so much more sexier than me and had to prove it to me. I feel very low. I'd love her to explain why she did it as I was very polite to her and friendly and made an effort to talk to her earlier in the night.

It's easy to blame the other woman rather then face the fact that your boyfriend is the one who hurt you. What she did wasn't very nice and most women wouldn't act that way but your boyfriend behavior and attitude afterwards is what you should be concerned about.

If you do decide to stay with him do so with your eyes wide open and know that he will cheat on you again. He told you to "look at the bigger picture" so do that. If you have children with him what kind of morals will he instill in them. Will he teach his sons that women are beneath them and it's ok to treat them like a piece of dirt. Will his daughter grow up with no self-respect because they have seen their father cheat on their mother all their life.

Forget about the other woman and concentrate on you and how you want your life to be.

stargazer 68 · 10-05-2017 09:44AM

Op I have to agree with all the other posters on here - the guy will cause you nothing but heartache. I know it is easy for us to say dump him from our keyboards but you need to look at the bigger picture.

Many years ago a friend of mine was dating this guy - myself and my other friend knew he was a lying cheat and caught him several times. She didn't believe us - said we were just jealous!! She married him and has since divorced because of his cheating. She still says she wishes she had listened to us.

It's time for some self respect and self love.

Penn · 10-05-2017 09:44AM

sallyanne12 wrote: »

Cheating is not something I will accept going forward. I would never be happy with that. He told me it wouldn't happen again but his explanations completely contradicted what he said. It was clear he had no guilt. He even said "you'd swear I f...d her the way you're acting."

Why accept it now then? He's shown no remorse, no guilt, doesn't think what he did was wrong, blamed you for overreacting, says every guy does it (they don't) and has quite clearly shown you no respect by doing it knowing you were nearby and could catch them, within about 2 hours of meeting this girl.

You may not accept cheating going forward, but he will cheat again anyway. Why would he feel next time he gets a chance will be any different?

It's fair enough to be angry at the woman he was with, especially if she knew you were going out. But she deserves maybe 5% of your anger at best. He deserves 95%. Your friend's friend owes you no loyalty, respect or love. He did.

JillyQ · 10-05-2017 10:21AM

Op you don't seem to be listening to what people are saying to you here. I had a similar situation to you years ago. My ex slept with a former friend of mine. I know the pain you are going through the absolute betrayal is something else. However the best decision I ever made was to dump the both of them and to tell our friends what they did. I met him a few months ago he begged me to take him back I said no because for me one of the fundamentals of a loving long-term relationship is respect which he quiet clearly didn't show any to me. Just like your oh is not showing to you. Do yourself a favour get rid of him. If your friends ask what happened tell them what happened. I found out through one of his friends who thought I deserved better, to this day I thank him for that.

Emme · 10-05-2017 11:24AM

sallyanne12 wrote: »

Hi it's me Sallyanne, I want to say thank you so much to all of you posters. I haven't made my decision yet but I am staying in my parents until I do. Cheating is not something I will accept going forward. I would never be happy with that. He told me it wouldn't happen again but his explanations completely contradicted what he said. It was clear he had no guilt. He even said "you'd swear I f...d her the way you're acting."
I don't know why but I've started to feel upset with the girl doing that to me. How can women treat each other so badly. She knew I was with him, we were introduced as a couple. I never would do anything wrong to anyone. Why do I deserve it. I have been a bit distant with my main friend from that night. The girl who kissed my boyfriend is her best friend. I really care for my friend and don't want to upset her by telling her what happened. I feel let down and upset to ever meet that girl again. She knew she is so much more sexier than me and had to prove it to me. I feel very low. I'd love her to explain why she did it as I was very polite to her and friendly and made an effort to talk to her earlier in the night. somebody mentioned that they'd be surprised if kissing is all they did.
It reminded me how the girl looked afterwards. Her hair was a complete mess and I did notice my boyfriend fly was open (obviously he could have forgot to close it after using the toilet.. I'm imaging the worst case scenario) it made me wonder did more go on than kissing. After I saw, I was standing at the bar for a good 30 minutes until they reappeared, highly unlikely they had sex in a toilet is it? My head is a mess is an understatement

They probably had a quickie :rolleyes: 30 minutes is plenty of time for that.

You need to dump this man ASAP. Well done moving back to your parents for now but make up your mind not to go back to him. And not take him back. Ever. He will always cheat on whoever he is with. And this girl isn't the first person he's cheated on you with either. Don't blame her for your boyfriend's actions. He's the one who was in a couple and cheated. She was on her own. Goodness knows what your boyfriend told this girl. He could have told her you were just friends even though you were introduced as a couple.

When you split up with him (and I really hope it's WHEN) if you decide to keep in contact with your friend you will have to tell her what happened with the other girls. Never mind your friend's feelings. Her friend didn't think much of yours or your boyfriend told her you two were just friends.

Dump him.

B0jangles · 10-05-2017 11:40AM

OP some of thing things you're saying and the justifications you're making in the face of his appalling behaviour honestly sound like the kind of things an addict says when they don't want to admit they have a problem. This man is behaving like an unmitigated pig; in the long-term he'll cause you nothing but suffering and then tell you it's all your own fault because he told you up front what to expect. He's hurting you now and he knows he's hurting you, he's never going to stop hurting you.

You need to treat this relationship like an addiction that you need to break; at first it'll be tough, but in a few weeks or maybe months you really won't know yourself.

Flibble · 10-05-2017 11:52AM

Op... Are you ever going to trust him again?

Next month, he goes out without you, just him & his friends. Will you believe him that nothing happened or is it all you'll think about?

Look how difficult it was to get him to admit kissing that other women, even though you physically WITNESSED it. And he's not even apologetic! You're being 'managed' & manipulated.

Head all over the place

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