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Psychopath who killed boy with hammer to be released.

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2

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    #32
    Dtp1979
    Registered Users Posts: 12,734 ✭✭✭✭Dtp1979


    dar100 wrote: »
    He did

    You know what he meant


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    #33
    Taylor365
    Registered Users Posts: 2,994 ✭✭✭Taylor365


    Should have some sort of death island, with melee weapons and the winner gets to live on death island welcoming every new contestant murderer.

    And it should be filmed LIVE on tv like a gameshow, and people place bets!


    :pac:


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    #34
    Dtp1979
    Registered Users Posts: 12,734 ✭✭✭✭Dtp1979


    Taylor365 wrote: »
    Should have some sort of death island, with melee weapons and the winner gets to live on death island welcoming every new contestant murderer.

    And it should be filmed LIVE on tv like a gameshow, and people place bets!


    :pac:

    I'm pretty sure that was a film


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    #35
    Yourself isit
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,257 ✭✭✭Yourself isit


    Tangatagamadda Chaddabinga Bonga Bungo wrote: »
    I think that someone that goes out to murder someone just so they can feel like they murdered someone fall into the category of people who should be kept out of society indefinitely. There aren't that many, less than 100? But they pose the greatest risk to society.

    Yes, all murder is wrong. But 'at least' the vast majority of murders can be explained to some degree, friends who fall out, money, drink, drugs, family ect. This case is straight from the Larry Murphy play book, to kill anybody for the sake of killing.

    Totally. His statement

    "One classmate testified that Goodwin had said: "Jesus, I’d love to kill someone, someone that no one would care about, like Darragh Conroy"

    Is surely symptomatic of some sort of sociopathic tendencies.


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    #36
    Samuel T. Cogley
    Registered Users Posts: 10,684 ✭✭✭✭Samuel T. Cogley


    bear1 wrote: »
    A serious review is needed of the sentences handed down.
    The family must be feeling they've been royally screwed by the justice system that they lose their only son and the state allows the murderer with a life sentence to simply leave prison after promising to stay 8km away from the family.
    **** right off.

    Absolutely and I'm fond of pointing out cost. Fcuk cost in the case of violent criminals. They need to be locked up for as long as it takes. Maybe then the cost argument will swing to rehabilitation. Until then they need to be incapacitated.


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    #37
    bear1
    Registered Users Posts: 12,812 ✭✭✭✭bear1


    Samuel T. Cogley wrote: »
    Absolutely and I'm fond of pointing out cost. Fcuk cost in the case of violent criminals. They need to be locked up for as long as it takes. Maybe then the cost argument will swing to rehabilitation. Until then they need to be incapacitated.

    "victims skull was bashed in so much that bits of the bone were falling out of the wounds".
    And this lad has been let back into society.
    You just have to despair sometimes.
    I hope the family appeals.


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    #38
    TallGlass
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,935 ✭✭✭TallGlass


    So maybe I am missing this one, I read it earlier. Why is it that this guy is been allowed out exactly? He literally smashed some lads head in with a hammer, to extent the coroner had to piece it back together like a puzzle.

    What wonderful marvellous talent is this lad going to now bring to the table after all these years. Apart from him inevitably smashing another persons head in.

    Sometimes you have to wonder who is worse in this little island of ours, the judges or the criminals? It's criminal to let this guy out, someone like him needs to be put down like an animal not released back into society like some good lad. FFS.


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    #39
    jimmycrackcorm
    Registered Users Posts: 14,329 ✭✭✭✭jimmycrackcorm


    Stheno wrote: »
    Article says he was released last year then later says he will be released

    That can't be right - sure he was "jailed for life".


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    #40
    infogiver
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,505 ✭✭✭infogiver


    TallGlass wrote: »
    So maybe I am missing this one, I read it earlier. Why is it that this guy is been allowed out exactly? He literally smashed some lads head in with a hammer, to extent the coroner had to piece it back together like a puzzle.

    What wonderful marvellous talent is this lad going to now bring to the table after all these years. Apart from him inevitably smashing another persons head in.

    Sometimes you have to wonder who is worse in this little island of ours, the judges or the criminals? It's criminal to let this guy out, someone like him needs to be put down like an animal not released back into society like some good lad. FFS.

    The judges job is to follow,literally, the letter of the law.
    They have to look at precedent and all the current evidence.
    It looks as if this guy was in a psychosis when he killed the poor kid, and 14 years later medical professionals have testified that he's no longer suffering from that psychosis.
    The law is the law.


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    #41
    TallGlass
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,935 ✭✭✭TallGlass


    infogiver wrote: »
    The judges job is to follow,literally, the letter of the law.
    They have to look at precedent and all the current evidence.
    It looks as if this guy was in a psychosis when he killed the poor kid, and 14 years later medical professionals have testified that he's no longer suffering from that psychosis.
    The law is the law.

    That's great then, we just let him out. I am sure plenty of people have had and have psychosis, doesn't give them a free pass to go beating people to death with a hammer nor do they do it either.

    And what about the family of that poor lad? I'm sure they are still suffering the loss of there son, doesn't that matter in any of this to the so called 'law'.


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    #42
    infogiver
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,505 ✭✭✭infogiver


    In the U.K. they have a "whole life tariff".
    I suppose there's only maybe 7 or 8 people in prison with "full life tariffs".
    Mostly people who murdered children with no bad mental health excuse.
    All of the people on these tariffs added further misery to the families of the kids they killed by appealing the tariffs to the EU court of human rights.
    The appeals typically took 7 years.
    Such misery.
    Part of the plus side of Brexit is that this torture will stop.
    We need a minimum sentence/ whole life tariff here.


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    #43
    Samuel T. Cogley
    Registered Users Posts: 10,684 ✭✭✭✭Samuel T. Cogley


    TallGlass wrote: »
    So maybe I am missing this one, I read it earlier. Why is it that this guy is been allowed out exactly? He literally smashed some lads head in with a hammer, to extent the coroner had to piece it back together like a puzzle.

    What wonderful marvellous talent is this lad going to now bring to the table after all these years. Apart from him inevitably smashing another persons head in.

    Sometimes you have to wonder who is worse in this little island of ours, the judges or the criminals? It's criminal to let this guy out, someone like him needs to be put down like an animal not released back into society like some good lad. FFS.

    If you dig a little deeper, one of the primary reasons he was let out is because he has a low change of re-offending, and was not receiving treatment in prison. So go figure here, what's the biggest failure - having to let him out to get treatment or leaving him in until he's served a life sentence (around 17 years) and potentially increasing the change of reoffending, due to their being less of a support structure.

    I'm all for keeping people in for as long as it takes but this isn't a simply case of a Judge deciding to let the guy out on a whim.
    jimmycrackcorm wrote: »
    That can't be right - sure he was "jailed for life".

    With a review after ten years. Absolute madness that the DPP wanted additional time for more reporting - they knew this was coming for ten years.
    infogiver wrote: »
    The judges job is to follow,literally, the letter of the law.
    They have to look at precedent and all the current evidence.
    It looks as if this guy was in a psychosis when he killed the poor kid, and 14 years later medical professionals have testified that he's no longer suffering from that psychosis.
    The law is the law.

    In fairness they have very wide discretion on sentencing as this case illustrates both at the initial sentencing and on review.

    While I agree with you on the medical evidence front, I really am in two minds here. Yes the lad should be treated humanely but I'd suggest a better solution would be intensive study and rehabilitation rather than he seems a bit better now let hime out so he can be sorted - shouldn't he have been sorted inside? Ten years is also an awfully short time inside, even for a teenager committing this sort of crime.


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    #44
    infogiver
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,505 ✭✭✭infogiver


    TallGlass wrote: »
    That's great then, we just let him out. I am sure plenty of people have had and have psychosis, doesn't give them a free pass to go beating people to death with a hammer nor do they do it either.

    And what about the family of that poor lad? I'm sure they are still suffering the loss of there son, doesn't that matter in any of this to the so called 'law'.

    My point is that the judges can do nothing about changing the law.
    Laws are only changed when the citizens force the government to change them


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    #45
    Samuel T. Cogley
    Registered Users Posts: 10,684 ✭✭✭✭Samuel T. Cogley


    infogiver wrote: »
    In the U.K. they have a "whole life tariff".
    I suppose there's only maybe 7 or 8 people in prison with "full life tariffs".
    Mostly people who murdered children with no bad mental health excuse.
    All of the people on these tariffs added further misery to the families of the kids they killed by appealing the tariffs to the EU court of human rights.
    The appeals typically took 7 years.
    Such misery.
    Part of the plus side of Brexit is that this torture will stop.
    We need a minimum sentence/ whole life tariff here.

    In the UK he would have been detained in a similar manner to here 'at her majesty's pleasure' and I suspect that was the concept White J was drawing on.


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    #46
    Samuel T. Cogley
    Registered Users Posts: 10,684 ✭✭✭✭Samuel T. Cogley


    TallGlass wrote: »
    That's great then, we just let him out. I am sure plenty of people have had and have psychosis, doesn't give them a free pass to go beating people to death with a hammer nor do they do it either.

    And what about the family of that poor lad? I'm sure they are still suffering the loss of there son, doesn't that matter in any of this to the so called 'law'.

    He wasn't suffering a psychosis AFAIK - if he was then he would have been found not guilty and would have been off to the laughing academy in Dundrum.


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    #47
    infogiver
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,505 ✭✭✭infogiver


    Samuel T. Cogley wrote: »
    In the UK he would have been detained in a similar manner to here 'at her majesty's pleasure' and I suspect that was the concept White J was drawing on.

    In any civilised jurisdiction this guy would not have been given a whole life sentence.


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    #48
    TallGlass
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,935 ✭✭✭TallGlass


    Samuel T. Cogley wrote: »
    If you dig a little deeper, one of the primary reasons he was let out is because he has a low change of re-offending, and was not receiving treatment in prison. So go figure here, what's the biggest failure - having to let him out to get treatment or leaving him in until he's served a life sentence (around 17 years) and potentially increasing the change of reoffending, due to their being less of a support structure.

    He needs to be kept locked up for the rest of societies sake. His mindset is that it's okay to do this, his refusal to take help while inside speaks volumes to me, if anything that is a warning that he should not be allowed out on the street. His mindset is the same and it's a ticking time-bomb walking around, until he decides to knock off someone else that 'no-body would really miss'.


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    #49
    Summer wind
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,285 ✭✭✭Summer wind


    He should never again see the light of day. May the beautiful child he killed Rest In Peace.


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    #50
    Samuel T. Cogley
    Registered Users Posts: 10,684 ✭✭✭✭Samuel T. Cogley


    TallGlass wrote: »
    He needs to be kept locked up for the rest of societies sake. His mindset is that it's okay to do this, his refusal to take help while inside speaks volumes to me, if anything that is a warning that he should not be allowed out on the street. His mindset is the same and it's a ticking time-bomb walking around, until he decides to knock off someone else that 'no-body would really miss'.

    I'm not sure if help was available or what the circumstances surrounding a failure to take what was available. Now I'd 100% agree if I didn't have some (small) insight into the internals of this, but I will say no matter how bad it is does his right outweigh the right of society to be protected and I can't find myself on the his right side of that argument - I do see it exists though.


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    #51
    TallGlass
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,935 ✭✭✭TallGlass


    Samuel T. Cogley wrote: »
    He wasn't suffering a psychosis AFAIK - if he was then he would have been found not guilty and would have been off to the laughing academy in Dundrum.

    I think that's where he should have gone from day one. The wires in that brain are not crossing the correct paths. Some proper assessment over 10 years and him accepting some sort of help, you might consider in the slightest letting him out.

    No help inside, hardly any type of a sentence for the crime he committed and he is allowed walked out with a bit of a problem, only that he keeps away from the area of the family. As if he would give a ****é about that, he just murdered there son and is walking free. What a joke, honestly and we are paying for these shenanigans via the courts. The system is just not fit for purpose.


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    #52
    Samuel T. Cogley
    Registered Users Posts: 10,684 ✭✭✭✭Samuel T. Cogley


    TallGlass wrote: »
    What a joke, honestly and we are paying for these shenanigans via the courts. The system is just not fit for purpose.

    Court system is perfectly fit for purpose. We just have a broken prison system that badly needs huge investment, especially in regard to youth offenders convicted of serious crimes. They're pretty rare and given the tiny population it's very difficult to have the right facilities on hand.


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    #53
    TallGlass
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,935 ✭✭✭TallGlass


    Samuel T. Cogley wrote: »
    Court system is perfectly fit for purpose. We just have a broken prison system that badly needs huge investment, especially in regard to youth offenders convicted of serious crimes. They're pretty rare and given the tiny population it's very difficult to have the right facilities on hand.

    Well the perspective I get from looking at this on a daily bases is that it is not fit for purpose at all.

    You sound like you work in this area and think it's the prison system, then lets fix the prison system, this needs to stop before it seriously starts to undermine society.


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    #54
    Nermal
    Registered Users Posts: 2,616 ✭✭✭Nermal


    infogiver wrote: »
    It looks as if this guy was in a psychosis when he killed the poor kid, and 14 years later medical professionals have testified that he's no longer suffering from that psychosis.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rosenhan_experiment

    It is impossible to tell reliably if someone is suffering from or cured of 'psychosis'. The term doesn't have any scientific meaning. We never should have given it a legal one.


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    #55
    Samuel T. Cogley
    Registered Users Posts: 10,684 ✭✭✭✭Samuel T. Cogley


    TallGlass wrote: »
    Well the perspective I get from looking at this on a daily bases is that it is not fit for purpose at all.

    I'm not really sure what gives you that impression. Sentencing tends to be most people's rub. That's inexorably linked to the prison system.
    TallGlass wrote: »
    You sound like you work in this area and think it's the prison system, then lets fix the prison system, this needs to stop before it seriously starts to undermine society.

    'Study' it rather than work in it but although the CJS should constantly be improving, including the courts, the Prison system is the biggest issue at the moment and in dire need for huge investment. The problem is no one is willing to pony up the dough.

    Don't misunderstand though that regardless of anything else violent offenders belong behind bars until such time as the re-offending risk is very low indeed.


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    #56
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    I'd love to see a country ran by After Hours


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    #57
    Yourself isit
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,257 ✭✭✭Yourself isit


    infogiver wrote: »
    My point is that the judges can do nothing about changing the law.
    Laws are only changed when the citizens force the government to change them

    What law forced the judges hands here? It's possible in the country to give a life meaning life sentence. There's no reason to change the law.


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    #58
    Ulysses Gaze
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,570 ✭✭✭Ulysses Gaze


    dar100 wrote: »
    Where does it say he's a psychopath? Tbf he was 16 at the time it occurred

    Should have just given him a slap on the wrist, a social worker and told him "Now...killing a boy with a hammer is wrong."

    :rolleyes:


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    #59
    darkdubh
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 3,628 ✭✭✭darkdubh


    Nermal wrote: »
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rosenhan_experiment

    It is impossible to tell reliably if someone is suffering from or cured of 'psychosis'. The term doesn't have any scientific meaning. We never should have given it a legal one.

    He wasn't suffering from psychosis, he's a psychopath/sociopath which is different. He was fully aware of what he was doing.


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    #60
    Samaris
    Registered Users Posts: 6,544 ✭✭✭Samaris


    Psychopath and sociopath have specific meanings. Dragging them into a conversation without any sort of back-up or without a clinical assessment is makes them a meaningless collection of syllables.

    I don't agree with the concept of letting someone out of jail without any rehab (?) for a murder like this. But it'd be good to get the actual facts straight.


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    #61
    infogiver
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,505 ✭✭✭infogiver


    Yourself isit wrote: »
    What law forced the judges hands here? It's possible in the country to give a life meaning life sentence. There's no reason to change the law.

    ...and then the law says the convicted person has the right to appeal the severity of the sentence.
    And that appeal is almost always upheld.


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