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Update on the Quays cycle route

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Comments

  • Closed Accounts Posts: 5,368 ✭✭✭Chuchote


    heh. i have 11 zones. for a 50s house, insulation is reaonably good (we bought it off a chap who worked for the SEAI) - BER i can take or leave. total heating bill over the last year was approx. €700.

    problem for me is that the room i use when working from home is probably the one with the worst insulation.

    Work from the kitchen ;)


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 32,351 ✭✭✭✭AndrewJRenko


    Deedsie wrote: »
    Can you imagine the uproar? Some civil servants where I work have free parking. I work for a private company on the same site. To be fair though, quite a lot do cycle. We probably have the most secure bike parking in Dublin.

    Many of the people who drive in I pass every morning on the N11. Most are living in DLRCC area.

    My wife drives to her place of work but she has to pay for it. That is how it should be in my opinion.

    In most civil / public service offices in the city, parking is fairly limited. I know of two offices that each have several hundred staff with less than 10 parking spaces each - so it is limited to the most senior staff. Some offices with larger spaces (DCC on Wood Quay) have long waiting lists for staff who want a parking space. The media story of ALL the civil servants languishing in their own personal parking space is largely a myth, or a major exaggeration at any rate.


  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 53,217 CMod ✭✭✭✭magicbastarder


    do the large car parks have any figures on where their customers are coming from?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 22,461 ✭✭✭✭beauf


    You don't have to waste time and resources working where people coming from. Simply make it hard to get into town and they'll switch to the overloaded trains, and luas. If they can get on them.

    Isn't that the point of reducing capacity on the quays. Restricting cars and giving priority to other forms of transport.


  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 53,217 CMod ✭✭✭✭magicbastarder


    well, just if the likes of brown thomas is complaining about the quays, but 80% of their customers don't use the quays, would be interesting info.


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 22,461 ✭✭✭✭beauf


    They should do their own survey then. They have their own car park.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 22,461 ✭✭✭✭beauf


    That will be the same for all car parks.

    They could scan the number plates and see where they are taxed


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 5,368 ✭✭✭Chuchote


    beauf wrote: »
    That will be the same for all car parks.

    They could scan the number plates and see where they are taxed

    My point exactly. If the State started charging for its car parks instead of giving free spaces to public services - and gradually got rid of all onstreet parking and replacing it with multi-storey car parks - it would release far more road space for use, and it would mean all the administration of checking tax and insurance (and driving around clamping unpaid use of that onstreet parking) could be dispensed with, because it could be done automatically in the car parks.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 22,461 ✭✭✭✭beauf


    My point was they could scan the traffic on the quays. See where it's coming from.

    People will pay for parking if they don't get it free. Which is why it's so expensive. In our office it wasn't cost that put people off driving, it was when it took a lot longer in the car. Than an alternative.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 32,351 ✭✭✭✭AndrewJRenko


    Chuchote wrote: »
    My point exactly. If the State started charging for its car parks instead of giving free spaces to public services

    What car parks are you referring to here?


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 5,368 ✭✭✭Chuchote


    What car parks are you referring to here?

    Perhaps I should have said "for the car park spaces the State owns".

    Many public servants and many people who work for big companies have free parking in Dublin city centre. This is an incentive to drive; there's nothing against people driving if they absolutely have to, but it would probably be a good idea to make it much easier and cheaper to cycle or take public transport (including having proper park-and-ride facilities at the edges of the city so that people who drive in from commuter counties could park up and use Luas and bus or cycle in town).


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 32,351 ✭✭✭✭AndrewJRenko


    Chuchote wrote: »
    Perhaps I should have said "for the car park spaces the State owns".

    Not being smart, but which spaces are you referring to here?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,106 ✭✭✭fat bloke


    Not being smart, but which spaces are you referring to here?

    Well the department of education has free parking. Loads of it. Ditto government buildings


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 36,095 ✭✭✭✭ED E


    Not being smart, but which spaces are you referring to here?

    For one you have all the onstreet parking which is DCC owned.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 27,833 ✭✭✭✭ThisRegard


    Chuchote wrote: »
    It really seems a no-brainer for a carbon action to either stop providing free parking spaces, or tax them as benefit-in-kind.

    Not really, simple get around is to say they're pool spaces unassigned to an individual. But unfair then to those working in satellite office and corporate complexes.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,141 ✭✭✭✭Spanish Eyes


    I know for a fact that certain Government Offices that do not have sufficient parking on site offer parking spaces in nearby hotel car parks. All free. Fact.

    This has to stop.

    And the irony of DCC pontificating about priority for PT whilst they have a mahoosive underground car park accessed opposite Dublinia. LOL.

    The City Manager needs to live in the city for a year as part of his/her contract, and actually cross the Liffey to the Northside too. Wouldn't that be a good move, rather than sending memos from the bunker on Wood Quay.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 36,095 ✭✭✭✭ED E


    Somebody should ask Cuffe to close the DCC carpark for a month, let them use alternative transport as an "experiment".


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 643 ✭✭✭Corca Baiscinn


    ED E wrote: »
    Somebody should ask Cuffe to close the DCC carpark for a month, let them use alternative transport as an "experiment".

    I doubt that that's within his power; even if he is chair of the Transportation Special Purposes Committee; he's just one elected councillor. Not sure whether Eoin Keegan could do it either. But is there really a huge council car-park? I thought a poster said recently that City Hall has a huge waiting list. so is another available to Councillors opposite Dublinia? I can't remember where I read the other day that if you want to improve cities you don't offer car parking to city planners or engineers!

    There's a much bigger issue though, on the one hand councils say they want to prioritise walking, cycling and PT. On the other hand they are hugely reliant on revenue from parking charges. If they remove on-street parking spaces, it could be brilliant for making space for cycling but they would have to replace the revenue somehow. Guess that's why the Draft National Mitigation Plan puts developing a policy on parking on its long-term list!


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 32,351 ✭✭✭✭AndrewJRenko


    ED E wrote: »
    For one you have all the onstreet parking which is DCC owned.
    The point was about 'free spaces for public servants' so I don't think on-street parking was under discussion.
    I know for a fact that certain Government Offices that do not have sufficient parking on site offer parking spaces in nearby hotel car parks. All free. Fact.
    Where does this happen? No mention of hotel car parks in this recent PQ response, though there are other paid 'overflow' spaces;
    https://www.kildarestreet.com/wrans/?id=2017-02-08a.448
    fat bloke wrote: »
    Well the department of education has free parking. Loads of it. Ditto government buildings

    Yeah, I've been in the Marlborough St car park once and it seemed quite big.

    I don't think Govt buildings has a huge number of spaces. Certainly, the rule about free parking for life for former TDs is ridiculous, and should be cut out straight away. They would have some staff and some TDs working anti-social hours when the house is sitting late, so they would need some parking for this.
    ThisRegard wrote: »
    Not really, simple get around is to say they're pool spaces unassigned to an individual. But unfair then to those working in satellite office and corporate complexes.

    They backed off a proposal to apply BIK to free parking because of some of these difficulties. What happens to someone who parks one day a week or one day a month. What happens to someone who needs their car for the job, like a social worker or a building control inspector?

    There is a problem with free parking all right, in that the costs of parking are shared by everybody, including those who cycle and those who use public transport. Some form of fee would not be unreasonable.


  • Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators Posts: 14,110 Mod ✭✭✭✭monument


    If we're still talking about the quays in relation to the Liffey Cycle Route, you all might be getting a bit carried away -- there's less than 400 cars per hour at rush hour on Ellis Quay and that's only going to decrease.

    377 cars per hour on Ellis Quay was the average the city council counted in 2016.

    There's a more cars up closer to O'Connell Bridge as people turn onto the quays from other routes, but all the traffic on the quays is going to be cut once the new bus lanes are put in and a traffic light system (a type of bus gate) goes in before O'Connell Bridge on Bachelor's Walk. A ban on cars turning right from Bachelor's Walk onto O'Connell Bridge will also be in place.

    Then, as part of the College Green Plaza, traffic volumes on the quays will be reduced further as the bridge at Capel Street will be down to one lane for general traffic and Parliament Street will likely have its full bus gate (depending on permission etc).

    This will reduce traffic capacity on Ellis Quay.

    So, we're talking about less than the current 377 cars per hour -- likely far less.

    It doesn't directly work this way, but, per hour: We're talking about just a tram load of people, or a few buses, or a small commuter train not fully loaded.

    The main thing wrong with the private traffic is that we think about it far too much. Bicycles already outnumber cars on Ellis Quay and on Eden Quay (not yet on Bachelor's Walk), but most people wear-east along here are carried by Luas and a bit less by bus.

    Here's the Ellis Quay data;
    Traffic-count.jpg

    And a chart showing the people carrying of modes along Bachelor's Walk and the red line beside it:

    img_4434.jpg


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 5,368 ✭✭✭Chuchote


    monument wrote: »
    And a chart showing the people carrying of modes along Bachelor's Walk and the red line beside it:

    img_4434.jpg

    Chart doesn't show the hundreds of bikes that pass along there?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,828 ✭✭✭cython


    Chuchote wrote: »
    Chart doesn't show the hundreds of bikes that pass along there?

    Title of the graph is "Passenger capacity per mode" - typically for bikes (obviously there are exceptions like cargo bikes, trailers, etc. but they are few and far between) that is zero ;)


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 5,368 ✭✭✭Chuchote


    cython wrote: »
    Title of the graph is "Passenger capacity per mode" - typically for bikes (obviously there are exceptions like cargo bikes, trailers, etc. but they are few and far between) that is zero ;)

    Ah, so the car figure doesn't include cars with just a single person driving it?


  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 26,069 Mod ✭✭✭✭CramCycle


    Chuchote wrote: »
    Ah, so the car figure doesn't include cars with just a single person driving it?

    They still have the capacity, although I am in agreement with what you mean.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 5,368 ✭✭✭Chuchote


    CramCycle wrote: »
    They still have the capacity, although I am in agreement with what you mean.

    Oh, I wasn't making any smart point, just thought they were counting passengers.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,127 ✭✭✭mr spuckler


    comments from each of the councillors from this debate / vote are featured here


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 641 ✭✭✭DanDublin1982


    Some really sensible comments there as well as some idiotic ones. I feel like this comment speaks to the lunacy of option 8 over option 7 quite succinctly.

    "I want to get it straight in my head, the manager is recommending an option which is markable substandard compared to the previous design… when the impacts are ranked as negligible,” added Cllr Smyth."


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,127 ✭✭✭mr spuckler


    i think i was most annoyed by this one, it was almost at troll level...
    Cllr Ciarán O’Moore (SF) said in Clontarf that there was a €6 million cycle route and it’s “only families” who use it and there are “lunatics in lycra gear” staying on the road.


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