Car insurance 2017: 237% increase in annual premium

Sonics2k · 07-05-2017 11:57AM

Insurance prices have gone up to totally insane amounts.

My fianceé started driving last year and the insurance quotes we got for her (In her late 20's) was a little bit under €3000 for Third Party, Fire and Theft, which is a truly insane amount of money.

Thankfully because I have a full licence she was added to mine, but it sent my premium from €400 to €940.

Liam McPoyle · 07-05-2017 12:23PM

quadrifoglio verde wrote: »

Agree with this.
Did the central bank not also instruct them that they had to have much more in reserves as well?

Add then that low risk bonds are yielding tiny yields. Previously you'd get 2 or 3% which was enough. Now you have to pay the Germans to loan them money and I'm guessing low risk bonds was a significant part of insurers income?

The Solvency II requirements was an EU directive that came into effect in January 2016. In simple terms it means insurers are required to keep a minimum amount of money in their coffers at all times, iirc its a minimum of 100% of their reserves so if they have €50m in claims outstanding they have to have at least €100m in the bank.

The investment one is something that not many people are aware of and those that are try and paint it that insurers lost a fortune gambling on the stock market. Its as you said, since the global financial crisis investment income has dried up due to very low interest rates, historically insurers could pad their reserves with investment income but that's not possible any longer. Safe, low yield bonds are the order of the day.

Something else that I feel needs to be made clearer is that the claims environment is not just claims from motor insurance. Its all claims, particularly public liability.

Shop owners, publicans and sports clubs have all seen massive increases in their premiums due to slips, trips and falls and people more than willing to claim for anything.

I'd also draw peoples attention to home insurance.

Millions are bound by the legal requirements of their mortgage to have their homes insured so they have to buy it therefore are a captive audience.

So how come, if insurers are just putting up prices for the lols has home insurance not increased by much more than 5% over the last number of years for some and remained static for many more provided they are claims free?

The reason is that the claims environment for property has been pretty good for the last few years. There have been no real major weather events so rates have stayed more or less the same.

The reason for increases is down to third party risk, that's huge for businesses and motor but very small for home so business and motor premiums have spiked but home insurance hasn't.

07-05-2017 01:07PM

I was looking for quotes for when I start driving at 29. On a 1.3 Astra all I could get was quotes for about 4.5k. When I changed the licence from 0 years to 1 year it went up by a tenner. Pure logic.

Sofiztikated · 07-05-2017 01:18PM

Sonics2k wrote: »

Insurance prices have gone up to totally insane amounts.

My fianceé started driving last year and the insurance quotes we got for her (In her late 20's) was a little bit under €3000 for Third Party, Fire and Theft, which is a truly insane amount of money.

Thankfully because I have a full licence she was added to mine, but it sent my premium from €400 to €940.

I remember my first quote for insurance, way back in 2000. €4,500 on a 306, TPFT.

Liam McPoyle · 07-05-2017 01:58PM

Sofiztikated wrote: »

I remember my first quote for insurance, way back in 2000. €4,500 on a 306, TPFT.

People have very short memories, premiums of that level for first time drivers were the norm in the mid 90s to mid 00s.

Quinn then started targeting the young driver market.

We all know how his company ended up.

SeanW · 07-05-2017 02:07PM

OP: the problem isn't evil greedy corporations, its costs. When each accident costs so much in preemptive payouts, legal fees and, mandated payouts etc. then that HAS to be reflected in costs eventually, because no business can spend more than it earns indefinitely.

Two things need to happen:

The cost of litigation needs to fall. Action should be taken on the "sheltered sectors" of the economy, and law is at the top of the list.
The standard of responsibility on drivers needs to be tightened. We have, by jurist precedent, concepts such as "strict liability" (whereby if a motorist is involved in an accident with a cyclist or pedestrian, the motorist is deemed "at fault" regardless of the circumstances) and also the "deep pockets principle" which states that the party with the greatest means should be held liable, where judges perceive the insurance policy to be a massive pot they can raid. Both of these ideas need to be consigned to the dustbin of history.

SeanW · 07-05-2017 02:11PM

In case you are wondering where our worthless government stands on the issue of legal costs:

http://www.independent.ie/business/irish/lawyers-win-again-as-troika-admits-defeat-31221017.html

For a government that normally responds "How high?" when ordered by the EU to jump, it seems strange that they tell the EU to get lost only when they suggest doing something about the insane legal costs we have.

Outlaw Pete · 07-05-2017 02:13PM

Mine kept going up and a few folks on the Motors forum said try Bank of Ireland and so I did and they halved my annual and this year it went down a little even. No idea if that will continue or they fleece people on the third year, but so far they seem good. My car is over ten years old also, which I know a few companies are beginning to refuse to quote on.

......... · 07-05-2017 02:15PM

Insurance companies for as long as I can remember in Ireland have been charging over the odds for insurance in Ireland and finding something to blame it on.
As soon as their excuses are dealt with by government, they find something else. Rinse, repeat and spin.

Liam McPoyle · 07-05-2017 02:22PM

......... wrote: »

Insurance companies for as long as I can remember in Ireland have been charging over the odds for insurance in Ireland and finding something to blame it on.
As soon as their excuses are dealt with by government, they find something else. Rinse, repeat and spin.

Pretty big accusation there amigo.

Care to back it up with some, you know, facts, evidence, proof?

Arcade_Tryer · 07-05-2017 02:29PM

Outlaw Pete wrote: »

Mine kept going up and a few folks on the Motors forum said try Bank of Ireland and so I did and they halved my annual and this year it went down a little even. No idea if that will continue or they fleece people on the third year, but so far they seem good. My car is over ten years old also, which I know a few companies are beginning to refuse to quote on.

:eek: A year ago that rule was 15 years! How in the name of Christ can they consider a 10 year old car to be a significant risk. This crap just proves them to be total chancers, making it up, and moving premiums up, as they go along.

Arcade_Tryer · 07-05-2017 02:31PM

Rod Munch wrote: »

Pretty big accusation there amigo.

Care to back it up with some, you know, facts, evidence, proof?

It's common knowledge that insurance companies in Ireland have recently been making false claims about claim culture being the main reason for rising premiums for the majority of drivers.

Allinall · 07-05-2017 02:41PM

Arcade_Tryer wrote: »

It's common knowledge that insurance companies in Ireland have recently been making false claims about claim culture being the main reason for rising premiums for the majority of drivers.

That has nothing to do with what the poster claimed.

07-05-2017 02:43PM

Wibbs wrote: »

Irish courts? Ha. The amounts and frequency of payouts is way outa whack with our European neighbours. Off the top of my head in my own extended circle I can think of four who got daftly high payouts for eff all, with the legal profession it seems all too happy to egg them on and judges all too eager it seems to facilitate such claims and payouts.

Im not saying fraud doesnt happen, it definitely does. what im trying to say that if its claimed by companies that fraudulent claims are the basis of raising premiums, well then it should be proved by them in court to be allowed use that excuse.

Arcade_Tryer · 07-05-2017 02:45PM

Allinall wrote: »

That has nothing to do with what the poster claimed.

Yes it does. Overcharging relative to other EU countries and blaming the "claim culture".

washman3 · 07-05-2017 02:48PM

ED E wrote: »

First step: Lets lose this none of my business attitude. If you know somebody who claimed for a fender bender, rat the fecker out. Get pictures of them on golf course or horseriding or w/e.

Second step :
Also on the same golf course make sure you take pictures of the bankers, speculators,crooked politicans, retired 50-55 year old public servants,
ie the real people who have ran this country into the ground. :mad:

Allinall · 07-05-2017 02:50PM

Arcade_Tryer wrote: »

Yes it does. Overcharging relative to other EU countries and blaming the "claim culture".

Where's the evidence that they're overcharging?

Why aren't European companies starting up here and charging lower premiums?

Have you examined annual accounts to see what profits companies are making?

Have you taken into account the fact that other countries are different marketplaces with different risk factors at play?

Or are you just going along with the mob and their incoherent rants who in the main have no understanding of the insurance industry?

osarusan · 07-05-2017 02:54PM

Ours went down by about €80.

......... · 07-05-2017 02:55PM

Rod Munch wrote: »

Pretty big accusation there amigo.

Care to back it up with some, you know, facts, evidence, proof?

I knew it wouldn't new long before a panicing shill turned up.

I'm not your amigo / pal / bud / dude.

Car insurance has always cost more in Ireland compared to other countries in western europe. I've lost count of the excuses from the giant PMPA scam, to the no MOT claim, to claims about provisional drivers, to needing a PIAB, to the Quinn insurance bail out, to ten year old cars are a problem, to the courts are scamming insurane companies claim. Every time a goverment addresses these claims, the insurance industry finds some other excuse to jack up premiums above the western European average.

The law society have rubbished the insurance industry's recent spin.

"There is little, if any, evidence that the level of awards being made to victims of motor accidents can account for the recent, alarming increases in motor insurance premiums” says Murphy.
“The vast majority of claims are handled by the injuries board or are settled directly by insurers. No costs are payable in those circumstances except by the consumer. The tiny proportion where proceedings are issued are subject to ever-decreasing levels of costs by a stringent taxing regime shortly to be strengthened by even more transparent and onerous legal costs requirements under the new Act,” he says.
“The Law Society’s view is reflected in a departmental briefing document for Minister for Transport Paschal Donohoe. It said, ‘It appears motor insurers are now imposing higher premium rates to return to profitability or to boost profitability after a number of years of insurers competing for market share with prices driven down accordingly and possible underwriting losses in some cases.’”

“It is worth noting that in his contribution to the Dáil debate on this subject on 20 April 2016, the Minister for Finance, Michael Noonan, referred to a letter he had written to the governor of the Central Bank of Ireland seeking a report on the insurance sector.
“In reply he was told by the Central Bank that until recently insurance firms enjoyed a prolonged period of reasonable investment return on the asset side of their balance sheets. This income stream provided firms with the scope to compete aggressively on price. The Central Bank proceeded to advise the Minister that ‘recent premium increases are designed to restore core underwriting profitability.’”

http://www.irishtimes.com/life-and-style/motors/the-rise-and-rise-of-unaffordable-motor-insurance-1.2734118

Arcade_Tryer · 07-05-2017 02:56PM

Allinall wrote: »

Where's the evidence that they're overcharging?

Almost sure there was research released recently which said the "claims" are not the reason for the drastic rise in premiums, but rather it's simply a case of insurance companies wishing to return to previous higher profits. I'm not going looking for it but it was widely reported in media a few months ago. Hence why I said common knowledge.

Allinall · 07-05-2017 02:58PM

......... wrote: »

I knew it wouldn't new long before a panicing shill turned up.

I'm not your amigo / pal / bud.

Car insurance has always cost more in Ireland compared to other countries in western europe. I've lost count of the excuses from the giant PMPA scam, to the no MOT claim, to claims about provisional drivers, to needing a PIAB, to the Quinn insurance bail out, to ten year old cars are a problem, to the courts are scamming insurane companies claim. Every time a goverment addresses these claims, the insurance industry finds some other excuse to jack up premiums above the western European average.

The law society have rubbished the insurance industry's recent spin.

"There is little, if any, evidence that the level of awards being made to victims of motor accidents can account for the recent, alarming increases in motor insurance premiums” says Murphy.
“The vast majority of claims are handled by the injuries board or are settled directly by insurers. No costs are payable in those circumstances except by the consumer. The tiny proportion where proceedings are issued are subject to ever-decreasing levels of costs by a stringent taxing regime shortly to be strengthened by even more transparent and onerous legal costs requirements under the new Act,” he says.
“The Law Society’s view is reflected in a departmental briefing document for Minister for Transport Paschal Donohoe. It said, ‘It appears motor insurers are now imposing higher premium rates to return to profitability or to boost profitability after a number of years of insurers competing for market share with prices driven down accordingly and possible underwriting losses in some cases.’”

“It is worth noting that in his contribution to the Dáil debate on this subject on 20 April 2016, the Minister for Finance, Michael Noonan, referred to a letter he had written to the governor of the Central Bank of Ireland seeking a report on the insurance sector.
“In reply he was told by the Central Bank that until recently insurance firms enjoyed a prolonged period of reasonable investment return on the asset side of their balance sheets. This income stream provided firms with the scope to compete aggressively on price. The Central Bank proceeded to advise the Minister that ‘recent premium increases are designed to restore core underwriting profitability.’”

http://www.irishtimes.com/life-and-style/motors/the-rise-and-rise-of-unaffordable-motor-insurance-1.2734118

I'll ask you the same?

Have you examined insurance companies accounts to see what profit margins they are making, and established how much they could reduce premiums by whilst ensuring they stay in business?

......... · 07-05-2017 03:00PM

Allinall wrote: »

I'll ask you the same?

Have you examined insurance companies accounts to see what profit margins they are making, and established how much they could reduce premiums by whilst ensuring they stay in business?

Why ? How do I examine your private books, and are we supposed to believe you are not capable of massaging books like every other business ?

The public, government, law society, central bank and media are all onto you though.

Allinall · 07-05-2017 03:01PM

Arcade_Tryer wrote: »

Almost sure there was research released recently which said the "claims" are not the reason for the drastic rise in premiums, but rather it's simply a case of insurance companies wishing to return to previous higher profits. I'm not going looking for it but it was widely reported in media a few months ago. Hence why I said common knowledge.

What level of "higher profits"?

When did insurance companies ever make "high" profits?

Allinall · 07-05-2017 03:02PM

......... wrote: »

Why ? are we supposed to believe you are not capable of massaging books like every other business ?

The government and law society and media are onto you though.

I'll take that as a no, then.

Also,. I'm not an auditor.

Outlaw Pete · 07-05-2017 03:14PM

Arcade_Tryer wrote: »

:eek: A year ago that rule was 15 years! How in the name of Christ can they consider a 10 year old car to be a significant risk. This crap just proves them to be total chancers, making it up, and moving premiums up, as they go along.

There is no rule, it's just some insurances companies were taking that stance two years back, their online forms were refusing to quote them. 15 year old cars and many still won't. It's madness as cars from 2002 can be as safe, if nor safer, than a five year car when it comes to crumple zones, air bags etc. Personally I think most insurance companies now just want to quote newer cars as they know they are the cars owners will tend to go fully comp on, whereas owners like me just want third party fire & theft as the car is not worth much (on the market at least - is to their owners of course).

Liam McPoyle · 07-05-2017 05:17PM

Arcade_Tryer wrote: »

It's common knowledge that insurance companies in Ireland have recently been making false claims about claim culture being the main reason for rising premiums for the majority of drivers.

Common knowledge, I presume you mean that government report?

Wasn't that just including claims information from the injuries board?

That's a relatively small sample of the claims made, the injuries board does not automatically deal with claims so using it as any kind of definitive proof of anything is short sighted in the extreme.

SeanW · 07-05-2017 05:23PM

Outlaw Pete wrote: »

There is no rule, it's just some insurances companies were taking that stance two years back, their online forms were refusing to quote them. 15 year old cars and many still won't. It's madness as cars from 2002 can be as safe, if nor safer, than a five year car when it comes to crumple zones, air bags etc. Personally I think most insurance companies now just want to quote newer cars as they know they are the cars owners will tend to go fully comp on, whereas owners like me just want third party fire & theft as the car is not worth much (on the market at least - is to their owners of course).

Yeah, what's up with that? I used to be able to get TPO insurance, Third Party Only, but it doesn't seem to be offered much now. What happened?

Glenster · 07-05-2017 05:27PM

Beyondgone wrote: »

Oddball.

Good luck with that. Everyone elses went up. They're grooming you to appear in their next TV campaign.

mine went down too.

I turned 30 though.

I've obviously never had a claim.

Billy86 · 07-05-2017 05:32PM

jackofalltrades wrote: »

325 a year!!! :eek: Christ that's low.
What did you do, take the engine out of your car and tell them you'd be pushing it around.

I worked in insurance for a bit in 2011-2013, for a full licence held for a few years, 5+ years no claims, penalty points/etc, low enough risk area and reasonably modest car (say a Corolla or something along those lines) you could get people €255 quite regularly on full comp. without any funny business like giving them really high excesses etc.

Quite a lot has changed since then, I see...

Billy86 · 07-05-2017 05:39PM

wordofwarning wrote: »

Do you not think €325 is ridiculously low? As they say with investment, previous performance does not act as an indicator for future performance. If you rear end a car tomorrow and drive on a slippy icy road into a wall. That €325 you have been paying for a decade won't cover that cost. Insurance at €325 is ridiculous for the level of risk involved. Look at household insurance where there is no risk of a dodgy claim such as whiplash, it is a solid structure and yet a premium for a basic house can be €500+

If insurance is such the cash cow in Ireland. Why isnt every German and French insurer jumping at the opportunity to make these massive profits? As it is not that profitable

Excuse me while I throw myself down my neighbours staircase.

Car insurance 2017: 237% increase in annual premium

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