Car insurance 2017: 237% increase in annual premium

06-05-2017 10:45PM #1

It's on me to get new car insurance and my oh my is this something else. I had heard it went up a lot, but not this much. I've never had an accident or indeed a claim and have my NCB for 9 plus years (which is the maximum available option). It's been very handy money for car insurance companies.

My last premium was for €650. That was in summer 2015 and that was the total premium for two years (including full NCB, breakdown service, windscreen cover etc). In other words, my fully comprehensive etc premium for each of the past two years worked out at €325 per year.

Now, the cheapest quote I'm getting, with NCB protection, is €770 for a single year. By my calculations that's about a 237% increase in the annual premium. That 237% increase is the cheapest on the market so this nonsense spouted by rightwing ideologues of having "free choice" to go somewhere cheaper is, appropriately enough, thick.

How very nice of the Irish government to legislate that we must have car insurance, while sitting on their hands when the oligopolistic car insurance market that their legislation in effect created screw us royally. Forget social welfare - corporate welfare is where it's at in 2017.

State intervention seems to be fine when it's insisting that we must part with our hard-earned after-tax income and give it to one of these private corporations, but in our brave capitalist world in 2017 state intervention is unacceptable when it comes to the same government ensuring that these few firms do not take advantage of the dominant position Irish law gives them. Welcome to our fine capitalist "free" market, where our elected "representatives" do sfa to represent us against such powerful corporations.

/end rant.

Beyondgone · 06-05-2017 10:52PM

Try being 18 and starting out in life. They'll want a bit more than €770 a year off you. You can probably add close to a zero.

Then you have to try buy a home too.. which because the State deems themselves the arbiter of who can build what, when, will also rob you blind.

I'd hate to be young these days.

Jack the Stripper · 06-05-2017 11:21PM

Least they could do is supply the lube.

dreamers75 · 06-05-2017 11:34PM

Sadly I got to listen to a radio show where people were calling in saying how they just simply dont have and have no intention of getting.

They literally felt justified in that they needed to bring Brittany or Jade to school and had to drive. The next day as I was bringing my kid to school I was bored and checked what cars had insurance, I counted 11 out of 20 on my side of the road.

All with pajama wearing mothers dropping kids off. I doubt they are the only ones.

Jack the Stripper · 06-05-2017 11:35PM

Bet the Pajamas women were driving new Dacia Dusters?

colm_mcm · 06-05-2017 11:38PM

Blue insurance buying market share 2 years ago, not so keen now that they've had the sums done for them.

ED E · 07-05-2017 12:03AM

First step: Lets lose this none of my business attitude. If you know somebody who claimed for a fender bender, rat the fecker out. Get pictures of them on golf course or horseriding or w/e.

fussyonion · 07-05-2017 12:23AM

My insurance went down this year.
I think I'm the only one who isn't being ripped off.
With Aviva 9 years, 9 years no claims.

Beyondgone · 07-05-2017 12:39AM

fussyonion wrote: »

My insurance went down this year.
I think I'm the only one who isn't being ripped off.
With Aviva 9 years, 9 years no claims.

Oddball.

Good luck with that. Everyone elses went up. They're grooming you to appear in their next TV campaign.

jackofalltrades · 07-05-2017 03:53AM

Deleted User wrote: »

In other words, my fully comprehensive etc premium for each of the past two years worked out at ?325 per year.

325 a year!!! :eek: Christ that's low.
What did you do, take the engine out of your car and tell them you'd be pushing it around.

07-05-2017 04:10AM

Why did it shoot up? I missed all this.

mickrock · 07-05-2017 04:23AM

fussyonion wrote: »

My insurance went down this year.
I think I'm the only one who isn't being ripped off.
With Aviva 9 years, 9 years no claims.

Mine went down as well, by €100 to €550 (AXA).

I was pleasantly surprised.

Wheeliebin30 · 07-05-2017 07:51AM

ED E wrote: »

First step: Lets lose this none of my business attitude. If you know somebody who claimed for a fender bender, rat the fecker out. Get pictures of them on golf course or horseriding or w/e.

Claims have nothing to do with the increases.

A massive stuey showed this recently.

Mostly insurance was too cheap for years with quinn undercutting everyone. It was never sustainable in the long run.

Don't be fooled by the insurance companies making you think it's to do with claims. Claims were always there before the increases.

Bishopsback · 07-05-2017 08:04AM

My daughters (26), 8 yrs ncb, went from €710 last year to €1050 this year with liberty ins. She went online got it with AA ins for €650.

Allah snackbar · 07-05-2017 08:17AM

Deleted User wrote: »

That 237% increase is the cheapest on the market so this nonsense spouted by rightwing ideologues of having "free choice" to go somewhere cheaper

/end rant.

I don't get this , is capitalism right wing now ? Are you someone who blames everything on right wing agendas and the big bad capitalist world

aon1998 · 07-05-2017 08:34AM

I know a lot of people who have quite low premiums with aviva. My parents actually have the minimum possible quote (€280). They were also the only insurance company to make a profit last year.

I'm not certain but maybe it is due to their strict underwriting criteria?

07-05-2017 08:47AM

Allah snackbar wrote: »

I don't get this , is capitalism right wing now ? Are you someone who blames everything on right wing agendas and the big bad capitalist world

It's really not complicated: corporations being given market dominance because of state intervention - in this case legislation stating we need car insurance - should not be allowed to escape state intervention when it comes to ensuring they don't abuse that position of dominance by, for instance, raising the annual premium by 237% for absolutely no reason connected with the actions of the insured person. You don't seem to find anything wrong with the current situation. Are you one of these rightwing ideologues who believe in unregulated free [sic] markets with no state intervention (except when it's making corporations richer, of course)?

And in this morning's news over in Britain, it shows once again where all this state intervention (and non-intervention) to make the rich richer is leading:

1. Britain has more billionaires than every before

2. UK's super rich carry on making billions

07-05-2017 08:55AM

fussyonion wrote: »

My insurance went down this year.
I think I'm the only one who isn't being ripped off.
With Aviva 9 years, 9 years no claims.

mickrock wrote: »

Mine went down as well, by €100 to €550 (AXA).

aon1998 wrote: »

I know a lot of people who have quite low premiums with aviva. My parents actually have the minimum possible quote (€280).

The acturial logic behind these premia seems a law unto itself. I can fully understand an increased premium if you've caused an accident or the like. If everything else is the same (and you've demonstrated yet another year accident free) it makes no sense (and I'm not talking about staying with the same company, where I assume they'll load the premium because they judge you're less likely to go to the bother of changing).

defrule · 07-05-2017 09:07AM

Insurance policies are pricing using groups of data, you can be the best driving in the world but none of that matters if people that are similar to you are crap.

There are other factors as well that can cause your premiums to rise at no fault of your own. Expenses come to mind but probably the most significant is regulation.

Insurance transitioned into a new regulatory regime in 2016 and it is likely this has increased the amount of money insurers need to hold to better safeguard policyholders benefits. This is paid for by you.

Fiery mutant · 07-05-2017 09:08AM

My premium last year was €574. Renewal quote this year from AA was for €1140. Got it with Zurich for €518.

My brother got a renewal from his insurance company for €1200, didn't renew. Got a quote for a fresh policy starting a week later from the same company for €680.

CoolHandBandit · 07-05-2017 09:20AM

Mine actually went down by 30 euro this year i couldn't believe it with all the hype iv'e being hearing lately about car insurance. Still 410 a year which is far too dear when compared to the European norm.

Fanny Wank · 07-05-2017 09:55AM

325 to 770 is a 137% increase

Liam McPoyle · 07-05-2017 10:33AM

I predicted a couple of years ago that Blue insurance would not be able to sustain their 2 year gimmick pricing and it would seem I was correct.

I predicted about 7 years ago that the premiums 123.ie were offering were wholly unsustainable and I was 100% correct in that.

Since then we have had Setanta and Enterprise go bust, both of them were offering premiums between €300 and €400 per year.

So to those that are laying the blame for increases solely at insurers doors, if companies that were offering cheap insurance went bankrupt, and companies like 123 needed €200,000,000 from RSA to stop them going under, why in gods name do you think insurance could be kept cheap?

It is a clear as day that it is massively expensive to run.

If insurers are creaming it profit wise then why oh why aren't European insurance companies tripping over themselves to set up shop here?

Because the market is a basket case currently where fraudulent claims are the order of the day.

Now just so I'm clear, when I talk about fraudulent claims I'm not on about minorities engineering crashes, its the every day Joe, exaggerating their injuries, claiming soft tissue damage for low impact accidents, banging their knees on table legs, all the while aided and abetted by a greedy legal system that thrives and profits on bigger claims payments.

Insurance companies are businesses and any business has to make a profit or at least break even to remain viable.

Up to 2015 insurers were making an underwriting loss ie what they were paying out was more than what they were taking in, AFAIK the central bank report for 2016 has yet to be finalised.

As for people saying they haven't had a claim so shouldn't pay more, insurance is pooled risk so the claims of the few are paid by the premiums of the many. Ye all benefited when the premiums were low so you have to take the rough with the smooth.

I'm confident that we have reached the peak of the cycle and that premiums for most will remain relatively static over the next 12 months.

07-05-2017 10:41AM

I dont see how they can base their increases on fraudulent claims, if they have gone thru the courts how can they be deemed fraudulent?

Wibbs · 07-05-2017 11:03AM

Sirsok wrote: »

if they have gone thru the courts how can they be deemed fraudulent?

Irish courts? Ha. The amounts and frequency of payouts is way outa whack with our European neighbours. Off the top of my head in my own extended circle I can think of four who got daftly high payouts for eff all, with the legal profession it seems all too happy to egg them on and judges all too eager it seems to facilitate such claims and payouts.

ytpe2r5bxkn0c1 · 07-05-2017 11:09AM

It's 137% not 237 for a start.

How had you a two year deal at only 325 per year? That seems very cheap.

wordofwarning · 07-05-2017 11:12AM

Deleted User wrote: »

The acturial logic behind these premia seems a law unto itself. I can fully understand an increased premium if you've caused an accident or the like. If everything else is the same (and you've demonstrated yet another year accident free) it makes no sense (and I'm not talking about staying with the same company, where I assume they'll load the premium because they judge you're less likely to go to the bother of changing).

Do you not think €325 is ridiculously low? As they say with investment, previous performance does not act as an indicator for future performance. If you rear end a car tomorrow and drive on a slippy icy road into a wall. That €325 you have been paying for a decade won't cover that cost. Insurance at €325 is ridiculous for the level of risk involved. Look at household insurance where there is no risk of a dodgy claim such as whiplash, it is a solid structure and yet a premium for a basic house can be €500+

If insurance is such the cash cow in Ireland. Why isnt every German and French insurer jumping at the opportunity to make these massive profits? As it is not that profitable

scamalert · 07-05-2017 11:40AM

wordofwarning wrote: »

Do you not think €325 is ridiculously low? As they say with investment, previous performance does not act as an indicator for future performance. If you rear end a car tomorrow and drive on a slippy icy road into a wall. That €325 you have been paying for a decade won't cover that cost. Insurance at €325 is ridiculous for the level of risk involved. Look at household insurance where there is no risk of a dodgy claim such as whiplash, it is a solid structure and yet a premium for a basic house can be €500+

If insurance is such the cash cow in Ireland. Why isnt every German and French insurer jumping at the opportunity to make these massive profits? As it is not that profitable

your looking at it as if person paying for insurance is putting money aside for his retirement, what if OP doesn't ever have an accident and decides to stop driving can he claim his money back, if your attitude is that its another investment for these companies.As other user said all the money is pooled,its not x person has to be able to cover his losses since that's for insurance to work out, but currently system works in some mysterious way that one company puts increase person switches and gets discount, so in other words monopoly between few large companies who somehow dont seem able to manage money, that they need more each year.

colm_mcm · 07-05-2017 11:45AM

The point that's being made is that the OPs premium was unusually low to start with, which explains a lot of the increase.

suicide_circus · 07-05-2017 11:47AM

Wibbs wrote: »

Irish courts? Ha. The amounts and frequency of payouts is way outa whack with our European neighbours. Off the top of my head in my own extended circle I can think of four who got daftly high payouts for eff all, with the legal profession it seems all too happy to egg them on and judges all too eager it seems to facilitate such claims and payouts.

It's a problem that no one is willing to tackle and legal eagle boards users try and laugh you down when it's highlighted here

quadrifoglio verde · 07-05-2017 11:52AM

Rod Munch wrote: »

I predicted a couple of years ago that Blue insurance would not be able to sustain their 2 year gimmick pricing and it would seem I was correct.

I predicted about 7 years ago that the premiums 123.ie were offering were wholly unsustainable and I was 100% correct in that.

Since then we have had Setanta and Enterprise go bust, both of them were offering premiums between €300 and €400 per year.

So to those that are laying the blame for increases solely at insurers doors, if companies that were offering cheap insurance went bankrupt, and companies like 123 needed €200,000,000 from RSA to stop them going under, why in gods name do you think insurance could be kept cheap?

It is a clear as day that it is massively expensive to run.

If insurers are creaming it profit wise then why oh why aren't European insurance companies tripping over themselves to set up shop here?

Because the market is a basket case currently where fraudulent claims are the order of the day.

Now just so I'm clear, when I talk about fraudulent claims I'm not on about minorities engineering crashes, its the every day Joe, exaggerating their injuries, claiming soft tissue damage for low impact accidents, banging their knees on table legs, all the while aided and abetted by a greedy legal system that thrives and profits on bigger claims payments.

Insurance companies are businesses and any business has to make a profit or at least break even to remain viable.

Up to 2015 insurers were making an underwriting loss ie what they were paying out was more than what they were taking in, AFAIK the central bank report for 2016 has yet to be finalised.

As for people saying they haven't had a claim so shouldn't pay more, insurance is pooled risk so the claims of the few are paid by the premiums of the many. Ye all benefited when the premiums were low so you have to take the rough with the smooth.

I'm confident that we have reached the peak of the cycle and that premiums for most will remain relatively static over the next 12 months.

Agree with this.
Did the central bank not also instruct them that they had to have much more in reserves as well?

Add then that low risk bonds are yielding tiny yields. Previously you'd get 2 or 3% which was enough. Now you have to pay the Germans to loan them money and I'm guessing low risk bonds was a significant part of insurers income?

Car insurance 2017: 237% increase in annual premium

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