100 gay men detained in 'concentration camps' in Chechnya — read first post

B_Wayne wrote: »

I would imagine there's still plenty of people in the west that would happily criminalise homosexuality if they could.

You're right, but the point is that much more people from muslim communities want to see it criminalised than westerners do.
In a 2013 Pew research poll of young muslims opinions on homosexuality (ages 18-28) in the countries of Turkey, Indonesia, Jordan, Palestine, Egypt,Tunisia ,Pakistan and Malaysia. The most accepting group were Malaysians and Turks where a whopping 7% believed homosexuality should be accepted, bare in mind 'accepted' just means not criminalised. Doesn't even mean they want equal rights for gay people.
All other groups polled recorded acceptance rates below 7% with just 2% of Pakistani young people believing homosexuality to be accepted.

To put this into perspective and compare with irelands youth, 97% of ucd students polled said they'd vote yes for marriage equality, and 98% of trinity students said the same.

But some posters on this thread would have you believe that muslims were accepting of homosexuality. Its just a minority who are bigoted! Yeh okay sure

B_Wayne wrote: »

I would imagine there's still plenty of people in the west that would happily criminalise homosexuality if they could.


Problem is, I view both policies as incredibly immoral. I'll admit that Saudi Arabia is worse. But you're also happy to normalise Russia's policy. I will normalise nether and will not use as some bizarre proof that the average Muslim wants Europe to be Saudi Arabia.

No Im not, I would absolutely hate to live in Russia and think its an incredibly dysfunctional society. What annoys me is when there is a discussion about the problem of homophobic sentiment within the muslim community many people immediately deflect by saying Russia which is a christian country is just as bad. As if to avoid facing up to the fact that homophobia within the muslim community are huge problems. Homophobia within russia is also a problem but that is discussed, russia and russians are heavily criticised for it by westerners, russians are called homophobes,people point out those flaws, but people seem afraid to confront that issue because in muslim countries because the untouchable religion is involved in this case. When we call muslims homophobic its considered tarring with the same brush.

And personally I don't believe it is tarring with the same brush. Muslims ARE homophobic, almost uniformly, with plenty of statistics to back up that statement. As above

B_Wayne wrote: »

Do you propose banning Russians from Europe Wakka? By your own logic, you would. I've worked with people from across the globe including Chechnya. The average Muslims that I know aren't bigots. Anecdotal obviously but far less insane than you labeling over a billion people as majority bigot.

No, and did I ever propose banning muslims from europe B Wayne? No. But again deflecting from the issue that is pervasive homophobic sentiment within the muslim community

If the poll above is anything to go by then hundreds of millions of muslims literally are bigoted, no two ways about that

wakka12 wrote: »

No, and did I ever propose banning muslims from europe B Wayne? No. But again deflecting from the issue that is pervasive homophobic sentiment within the muslim community

If the poll above is anything to go by then hundreds of millions of muslims literally are bigoted, no two ways about that

& Islam is the fastest growing religion, so many more bigots to come

B_Wayne wrote: »

Do you propose banning Russians from Europe Wakka? By your own logic, you would. I've worked with people from across the globe including Chechnya. The average Muslims that I know aren't bigots. Anecdotal obviously but far less insane than you labeling over a billion people as majority bigot.

Right so clearly between the choice of international polling efforts and 'B_Wayes' anecdotal experience, we should put more faith in the latter?

Irish Praetorian wrote: »

Right so clearly between the choice of international polling efforts and 'B_Wayes' anecdotal experience, we should put more faith in the latter?

Its only anecdotal experiences that they agree with :rolleyes:

Irish Praetorian wrote: »

This has been digging at me for quite a while because, well it's not especially new, I still recall the last wave of homophobia assaults and attacks in Russia, which only got belated prosecution and did not preclude a legislative clampdown on the promotion of homosexuality.

In any case, I see we've already run through the usual cliches in the thread;

We're going to 'protest' and 'raise awareness' about the issue, because clearly if we couldn't protest Russia out of Ukraine we're going to have great success protesting the population of one of its backwards mountain republics into abandoning their superstitions.

We've all agreed that this has nothing to do with Islam, damn the polling the Muslim guy I work with a few hours a day hasn't chopped anyone's head off so he's probably on-board with gay marriage, and shure weren't we chopping the heads off of gays before 1996?

Clearly this should not affect migration policy in the slightest, can't be offering any preferential treatment to persecuted minorities like gays (or even my old nemeses the Christians) we need to make sure we have enough people willing to bring the practices of head chopping and gay throwing into our countries so any persecuted gay people who escape these ****holes can feel at home.

I can't really express the depth of my contempt for some of the attitudes pervading here without violating forum rules, I will simply say I hope that some of the people here get to live in the hell they want to build for themselves, or rather that they want to build for everyone else...

Wait for the persecuted to persecute the savers of the persecuted

B_Wayne wrote: »

Nope, I simply think many of those who are concerned about bigots in this topic are invariably bigots in their own rights.

So, I as a gay person am only concerned with this problem because I am a bigot. Not because the majority of muslims would have me imprisoned for existing

Rightwing wrote: »

I don't get this link either. It's utter madness. I'm not particularly enamoured by muslims, but they can't all be bad apples.

Say something about their prophet & their all the same

Really Interested wrote: »

https://76crimes.com/100s-die-in-homophobic-anti-gay-attacks-statistics-updates/

Some scary figures

Transgender Europe’s Trans Murder Monitoring project reported that at least 1,700 transgender and gender-expansive people have been killed since 2008 in Central and South America.

including 594 hate-related killings of LGBTI people in Brazil.

In 2016, 27 trans and gender-nonconforming people were reportedly killed in the United States

I don't give a toss what religion they are if they hate they all god bothering nutters.

1993 gay activity was still illegal in Ireland, many men and women had to hide from the views of the Catholic Church wonder how many Evangelical Christians which it was illegal again?

It is a miserable 42% while Christian approval is 44% and yes Christians kill gays and transgender as well.

Once again, people seem to be rushing for the easy positions to take rather than tackle the salient issue. How easy it is to say 'well of course I dislike anyone who would murder an LGBT person regardless of faith' - I mean should we expect that otherwise you're quite ok with murderers so long as they don't target LGBT people? Or you're ok with LGBT people getting beaten so long as they're not murdered?

This is just a pathetic rout from confronting the issue, in this case, the mass incarceration and murder of gay people in Chechnya on the grounds of their sexuality carried out by the state, aided and abetted by wider society, done all on explicitly religious grounds (with one official proclaiming the region would be gay free by the time of Ramadan). In another sense it is about a wider problem of virulent homophobia across the Islamic world.

Now whatever one might say about the situation in the US, one cannot accuse the political class and apparatus of government of undertaking a mass slaughter of its gay citizens, nor can one really point to any serious politicians arguing for such (a few charming outriders notwithstanding).

More to the point, we don't face the issue of a large South/Central American population in our countries undertaking acts of sexual vigilantism. We're not facing calls to accept thousands of South Americans with pretty dire views on the issue of sexuality due to a civil war in their country. Perhaps most importantly, we don't have pundits telling us not to dare complain about the dangers of such a policy, shure weren't we all about executing the gays before the 1990s?

We faces the issues that pertain to us in reality; just running away from them looking either into our own history or to other parts of the world to try and deflate the issue is not enough for me, and I dare say it's not enough for anyone who is expected to pay the price for such policies in the future.

So what we are saying is the concentration camp in Chechnya ( mainly Muslim country ) is bad.
Christians in other parts of the world also kill/attack members of the LGBTQ so its OK that Muslims have laws that say to throw gays off buildings
Because it was illegal in Ireland 30 years ago to be gay & even though we have evolved & made gay marriage legal we should not be bigoted & welcome thousands who's religion is backward & detrimental not only to LGBTQ community but also women, children & basically all our western beliefs :eek: