The difficulties caused by money in our relationship...

LegacyUser · 03-05-2017 08:39PM #1

Recently had some conflicts in my relationship about money.

When we met she was in college and had her own place. She finished college with a very advanced qualification that she couldn't gain employment easily from (very academic stuff related to literature and different languages). She was very sad at the thought of slaving away in a cafe or office after all of the years of very hard work for her degree, but she made a bit of effort to gain work. I also said she could live with me for the summer after her degree while she was looking for work, and that at least for a while she didn't need to worry about rent and she could chip in with food / bills a bit here and there. So she moved into my smallish room, and my housemates were fine with the arrangement (she also keeps the place a lot tidier). Then she got lucky and a professor from the uni asked her to help him with research. This meant she had a little income (just over min wage) for the summer, and it was part-time. After the summer, she spent the little money she had left visiting her family (in another country) and coming with me on a week camping trip.
When she came back to Ireland again she was a bit down about being broke again and not having a job. In the past she had some very bad experiences on minimum wage type jobs and they left her feeling drained and down and very unhappy. So she again avoided full-time office / call centre / shop jobs and looked for something that she'd find interesting and that would make use of her degree more. I was happy to continue paying the rent up to Christmas and told her not to panic and stress so much about money and finding a job. She felt bad about it, but she was happy to have my support. She made some half-hearted attempts to get work but nothing much came out of that.

Cutting a long story short... after Christmas she got a couple of bits and bobs during the week to earn a bit of money. I no longer pay rent (I look after all bills), and she took over paying rent. But her income isn't enough to pay rent + food every month. She never buys clothes and has no money for going out (which she is generally happy with). This month she's told me through tears one morning that she's unable to pay the rent this month and has been communicating with her brother about getting some money (she received some help from her mother a a couple of monehts back). I've been happy to sponsor her if I want to go on a weekend away (she'll contribute a small portion, e.g. pay for some food, a little towards petrol, and I'll pay for hotel/flight/car rental). If I want to go for a big meal somewhere nice, and if I want to go to theatre then I'm happy to pay. She simply can't afford any of these things, but I love her company and I want to do things with her. Recently I organised that she come along with me on a 4 day trip in England I organised everything. We had a lovely time and I'm so glad we got to share that time together and create treasured memories, as I love her company and I want to share my earnings with her in this nice way. I have a fairly well paid job and inherited a small house in the country, which we stay in part of the time. I'm also happy to share this with her too, and she makes the place feel like a home by adding her small personal touches to the garden / interior.

Despite the good times, there are times I feel a conflict within me. There are times when she might be in a bad mood, or feeling stressed (about the little bit of work she has) and she will give out to me about leaving a mess, or will start micromanaging how we use the house, or will make decisions about our schedule and about how we should do things and what we will do in the house, etc. When we are working on something together, whether it's a task in the house or some other project that requires both of our time (such as household stuff, cooking, etc.), sometimes she makes me feel bad about me not doing enough, e.g. "When will you be back from your parents place? I thought we were going to work on this together. I thought you'd be available so we could work on this?". There are times I feel like she's taking things for granted, acting like she owns the place, with a sense of entitlement. Like for instance one day when I had a couple of skype calls, and then my Dad calls me again and keps bugging me about some computer issue he was having, and I remember me and her had agreed that evening to have a quiet night in, spend time alone, go for a walk, and she got a little annoyed that I was spending time on skype (she gave me a dirty look when my Dad called again). When all of the above things happen... there is something inside me that reacts very strongly, and I know it has to do with money. There is something that says; "Who do you think you are? You're lucky to even be here". Other feelings that come up are, "Did you put 10,000euro into this house in renovations? Do you go to work in an office everyday to pay all these bills and pay for this car and pay for the insurance and all the petrol that got us here? No, well then don't tell me when I can and can't skype with my Dad". I know this is a nasty reaction, but I feel like saying it to her in those instances. If she starts organising things in the house and making decisions, I feel like saying "Who made you chief? Stop acting like you own this place and have some humility". Humility is not her strong point, and there are times I feel she's all too happy to take take take.

The ego part of me comes up. I feel like I should be able to do whatever the heck I like in my free time, without her getting annoyed or disapproving of it. All because I've paid for most stuff we have in the house. If I want to go off to my parents for the weekend, or spend time with the lads, I feel like she should quietly accept it and look after the house projects that we are doing together if necessary, without a grumble or a moan. After all, she's lucky to have a roof over her head right? And all of this stuff has been paid for by me, the fireplace, the nice kitchen, the cooker we use, the heating, etc. She should be humble and grateful, not self-righteous and entitled and demanding.

Of course she often seems really grateful for everything, and she goes on and on about how much she loves our little place in the country and how happy she is that I'm sharing it with her and that we have a garden. She invites friends and tells them how much she loves being here, etc. So at times she seems really grateful for everything and happy with it. But sometimes she might make comments like "The road noise really disturbs my mind" or "I haven't decided yet if I like the sounds coming from the local sports field or not, maybe if they are there a lot of evenings in the summer will start to grate on me", or "The people here are so old fashioned and conservative" or "The land has really been shaped so much by agriculture, so little of it is natural countryside", and I sometimes react internally when she says these things. I mean, the place isn't perfect but it's mine... and now ours actually, as I'm sharing everything with her. I've worked very hard to renovate the place and spent a lot of time - many years - working in the office to save money so I could make it nice. I don't like to focus on negative things... I just want to make the best of what we have. When she moans a bit about these little things, I kind of see it as like someone who has paid big money for a hotel room and they are entitled to complain if there is road noise. But - wait a second, she hasn't paid a penny to be in this house. Yes, she puts her time in when we're working on projects here but honestly, I don't feel she's in a position to start complaining about these imperfections. I feel she should be grateful with what we have and not complain about it. I feel she's acting like an entitled spoilt brat, and I think it's a bit bitchy.

I know you're going to ask me if I've communicated all of the above - well, I have. We have good communication, and she is always open to hear how I'm feeling. She apologises if she's hurt me and she says she will try and do better in future. She gets emotional and she's sad she hurt me, and she says it's because she's so tense, and it always means she'll hurt others. Usually it helps us and things get better for a while. But she is who she is, so the same things sometimes come back. I've given her the list of things that I've paid for in the last week, and I've told her I don't want the money - just a bit of respect and gratitude, and her help without complaints and moans. I've told her that I'm entitled to skype my Dad whenever I feckin like, and when you put 10000 of your hard earned cash into this house, then you will be in a position to make me feel guilty for talking too much to my Dad on skype and not going for a walk with you on time.

But then she's human. And just as all of this was getting too much, and I had paid for another 3 bags of wood for the fire out of my wallet... I was about to give her the "Get out there and get yourself a fecking job" chat, and she confided in me. She broke down crying, and told me she'd received an email from her little brother, and that he had said that he would help her financially. He was glad she had asked for help, and would do what he could. She was really sad that her little brother had to give her money, and she felt so ashamed, and like she was a failure. Everyone around her has careers, are making money, are buying houses (she's early 30's, and I'm late 30's) and she is living like a broke student - hand to mouth. She says that she can't bear the thought of being in a job where she is going to be judged, where she might mess something up and do something wrong and then will have to be measured and evaluated as an employee. The thought of a job where she is being watched and evaluated makes her feel very anxious and she can't bear going through it (she had a very bad experience in her last job in a cafe, working for a first class asshole). At the same time, she doesn't like being broke anymore and hates taking money from me, from her Mum, from her brother - this also makes her feel anxious, and that there is always a scarcity and she needs to count every penny and always ask friends if some event is free or not, etc. She feels she's caught in a cycle and can't break out of it. She doesn't want to be broke anymore but she can't bear the thought of work. I told her she needs to get help but she can't afford anything. She needs to break this cycle. I'm willing to pay for a psychotherapist if it will help her, even a counsellor.

Oh, and the good news is that she's got another 3 months of work doing some research for her old colleague at the uni. But when that ends, as it will, we'll be back where we started again and we'll have the same issues.

Any advice appreciated. We've communicated a lot, as I've said. It's always helped, we've worked through a lot of stuff. There have been tears, and shouting and laughing. But I'm posting here because I still feel a lot of conflict about the financial stuff and her attitude sometimes, and it isn't going away. These things come up, we communicate, we resolve it somewhat but it comes up again. Maybe I need a counsellor? I love her very much, but I'm getting burnt out. It isn't easy for me sometimes. I want to make sure this relationship doesn't get damaged by my reactions to her, and I want to work at it.

leggo · 03-05-2017 10:13PM

A small part of me, when you speak about the 'moaning', is like "She's got to feel like she has purpose and has a say in how her life and home (whether she's paid for it or not) is." Like your reactions, as long as you're just thinking them, are human at times but also extreme and there's a sense of ownership over this girl. Not entirely your fault, since she's put herself in that position, but you have to remember she's her own person too and not an investment you've paid for.

But the main thing is: she needs to get a grip about working. And you do too putting up with those excuses. Where would she be if you let all of this get to you and called it a day? What if, god forbid, something happened you? She'd have to work, and she would if she needed to, but she doesn't. It really irks me when people say their degree makes them too good to work menial jobs, it irks me more that this girl still has those notions in her 30's. It's time for a reality check and for her to get some financial, and life, independence. Your setup would be fine if it worked as long as all parties would be happy, but then you wouldn't be on boards or thinking about her and you getting counselling.

So I'd say next time you talk tell her that you're worried she's unhappy with the situation and that you feel it's time for her to have her own independence and succeed on her own merits, so you can both enjoy more financial comfort. Empathise with her anxiety but don't let it stand as an excuse. Support her if she needs some help to deal with this, but the excuses have gone on long enough.

rainbowtrout · 03-05-2017 10:33PM

That's a very long post, but honestly? I think she needs to get up off her arse and get a job. I presume advanced qualifications means a PhD. She might be well educated and specialised in a particular field, but if it can't provide employment then she needs to go out and get a job that will pay the bills. If that means minimum wage stacking shelves in a supermarket or working in a call centre, so be it.

She has notions about what kind of work she should be expected to do. She should be prepared to do any kind of work that pays the bills if needs be. She's in her 30s, maybe her extended stay in college has made her a little detatched from the real world, but she needs to cop on.

Flibble · 03-05-2017 11:44PM

You are pandering to her. She needs to get real here- plenty of us work jobs we hate (HATE) to get by. It's called being a responsible adult.

You've been very nice to her & very supportive so far, but it can't go on or you'll end up resenting her. You have to be cruel to be kind here- she's never going to do what needs to be done while she has the level of monetary support you're giving her- sometimes what people need is a push.

Not all minimum wage jobs are awful btw, a lot of them of them are grand. They're not inspiring, but they are a means to an end.

woodchuck · 04-05-2017 09:42AM

Flibble wrote: »

You've been very nice to her & very supportive so far, but it can't go on or you'll end up resenting her.

It sounds like that ship has already sailed tbh.

I agree that she needs to sort out the job situation, even if it means taking menial jobs for the time being. She could try applying for funding in her chosen field. Or if that's not a feasible option, she needs to focus on her transferable skills to start working up the career ladder in another area.

However... from the sounds of it, money is not your only problem. You've written a very long post including all the things she does that annoy you. If she gets a job and pays her way, are these things going to be any less annoying to you? I think this is something you need to consider very seriously.

Also I found this comment in particular very worrying:

I've given her the list of things that I've paid for in the last week, and I've told her I don't want the money - just a bit of respect and gratitude, and her help without complaints and moans.

It sounds very passive aggressive and dare I say it... trying to control her through guilt. I'm not saying you're intentionally trying to control her (and she's obviously taking advantage of the situation financially), but this is not a healthy way to communicate. If I was in her shoes, it would make me feel like a second class citizen in the relationship. That she needs to put up and shut up. She's perfectly entitled to a moan the odd time though (we're all human after all) and tbh I can see where she was coming from with the skype thing. You had plans together and you deviated from them. She probably gets lonely while you're at work and was looking forward to some personal time together. Is she not allowed to get upset about anything just because she doesn't have a job?

If/when she gets a job, her personality won't change though. So if you're not happy with her currently, I don't think her getting a job is really going to change a huge amount in your relationship.

miamee · 04-05-2017 10:28AM

Woodchuck has made some good points.

Certain elements of what you have posted about the relationship have no relation to money, e.g. you speaking to your dad on Skype and getting dirty looks from her or her expecting you to be home in a certain time frame to spend time with her. This might be due to her having too much time on her hands and looking forward to time spent with you but equally, it might be what she will expect when working or not. How many of the issues you have posted about will disappear if/when she gets a job? You may need to give some consideration to what things are merely annoying you because of money and what things are just annoying you full stop.

You say you are happy to share everything with her but that's clearly not true, you are starting to resent the fact that you provide almost everything while she has the luxury of not being cut out for a minimum wage job. It's a long time since I left college but I worked full-time in a clothes shop after I got my degree until I could find work more relevant to my qualification; everyone does it, no one walks out of college into their dream job. She needs a bit of a reality check when it comes to money, asking her family for hand outs is not the way to go about it. Without a job she is never goingto be able to pay them back. In fact, she might even come looking for you to pay them back if they ask for it back.

silverharp · 04-05-2017 10:31AM

she sounds like a millennial cliché, has her advanced liberal arts degree which she cant monitise or never bothered to, it looks like she could have gone into Teaching or Translating but both of those ships have sailed by now. She is bringing nothing financial to the table which means you will have to support her. She could end up being quite a miserable person to live with especially if she is all about being "a strong empowered independent lady" when in reality she is one bad argument away from being homeless.
In as much as you get a gut sense of how someone else's situation will end up , I foresee a trainwreck in the next 5 or so years. Being single sounds like it would be more pleasant than your situation and it wouldn't be difficult to conclude that there is someone better for you out there.

SusieBlue · 04-05-2017 10:32AM

Does she think all the rest of us enjoyed working minimum wage at some point in our lives? I worked in a nightclub for years while putting myself through college, and a year or so after while looking for a job.
After each shift, I'd leave with a ball of stress in my chest, a headache, a sore back, a hoarse throat from the dry ice and shouting all night, and sheer exhaustion from working nights while studying by day. This was not uncommon among my peers, and while I hated it, I needed the money. There was no alternative in my eyes.

You are completely right to be feeling resentful, it isn't a case of her not being able to find a job, its a case of her not being able to find a job she deems up to her standards. She is being WAY too precious, you are pandering to her, and she needs to get over herself. Minimum wage customer service jobs are stressful for everyone, but that is not a good enough reason to sit at home on her bum.

She sounds happy with this situation of not working. With the exception of ill health, there is no reason why anyone shouldn't be contributing to the running of a house. Relationships are about equal effort and at the moment she is making none. She sounds lazy.

She is living in a house that someone else covered renovations for, for free, yet is complaining about the surroundings. Taking free holidays, days out, date nights. I live with my boyfriend and would balk at the idea of him paying for everything because it is simply alien to me.

You have been more than supportive of her finding her feet. Time to be a grown up now and find paid employment and starting contributing towards your life together.

The danger of letting this situation continue is that if you let it go on another few years, kids will be on the horizon, and make no mistake that as soon as a baby comes along it'll be the beginning of the end, there's no chance she'll find a job. And you will end up living your whole adult life supporting a woman who offered nothing towards building your life together, but expected everything to be taken care of. Its a recipe for disaster.

If she had any respect for herself, you, or your relationship she would be working instead of picking and choosing what is and isn't good enough for her to do. I couldn't be in a relationship like that.

sbsquarepants · 04-05-2017 10:39AM

I came to the same conclusion as rainbow trout and others - she's got this "advanced qualification" presumably a phd in some obscure discipline for which there is simply no commercial application. Now it's time to face reality and get a job that pays her way, the world doesn't owe her a living - she chose to do this stuff in college for her own reasons, it doesn't oblige anyone else to pay for it or to value it in any way.
For what it's worth, I know a guy with a phd in something relatively obscure (something to do with lithics) - he works for some bank in the IFSC.
Hates it, but he has kids and a mortgage so that's life for you!
This is what your missus needs to do - this shít just aint going to pay the bills unless she get into some sort of academic role. The reality of bills, food, clothes etc won't be ignored in the meantime. An educated bum, is still a bum!
There are very few of us doing what we love - I know I'm not. I'm feeding my kids and putting a roof over mine and their heads - and in all honesty that's a lot more important than intellectual stimulation!

Mr. Incognito · 04-05-2017 10:51AM

Wow- there's a lot there.

1. You don't have any right to demand a Meek and subservient partner just because you have paid the way so far. People are equals. If you are foolish enough to volunteer to pay the quid pro quo is not obidience. Get that idea out of your head. It's not the 1950s.

2. You are beginning to resent her and its only a matter of time before you blow up. She has money for clothes but not for entertainment? No wonder. She knows you will pay for it. You need to cut the purse strings here and tell her to get off her lazy self entitled arse and get a job.

Sesame · 04-05-2017 10:55AM

To put it bluntly, you are enabling her.
If she didn't have you, she would have to find her own way in the world and would not be in the position she is now.
You enable her to naval-gaze and procrastinate by providing for her.

It isn't a healthy relationship for either of you. You feel resentment which is building and she is wallowing in this vicious circle, unable to look after herself.
There is nothing to gain from this relationship in the long term. The only way I can see to fix it, is if you give some "tough love" and support her in finding a career path which would enable her to support herself. That might be moving county/country if her goal is niche. but time apart might actually be good for you both and allow you to find a new appreciation for each other.
It would be more beneficial for her though, to find herself and not need to rely on her brother (which she isn't happy about anyway) or you.
As the saying goes, give her wings and set her free.
Inspire her and give her seed money if necessary, but then send her on her way to discover her own life.

She will come back more independent or she may not come back, but either outcome will be for the best.

Lollipops23 · 04-05-2017 10:55AM

I tend to agree with the other posters- my first thought was "why wouldn't she just temp for a bit or something until she finds something more "worthy" of her efforts?"

I have always felt that being a stay at home mother wouldn't be for me, due to the fact that I could never be financially dependent on someone else. Looks like she has no such qualms about being a burden.

If she wants the relationship to have any sort of equal footing, she needs to cop herself on and try to get some sort of work so she can contribute even a bit.

scriba · 04-05-2017 11:00AM

Hey OP. Just to weigh in with what others have said. I have a PhD in an Arts subject, which I would love to be working in, but I no longer have the time or money to spend chasing. I wanted to get married, start a family, and buy a house. For that I needed security - so I now work as a tech writer for a large multinational. It's far from what I want to do, but I'm good at it, and the security means I feel much better about things. Chasing a dream job in a field with limited prospects, let alone sitting around waiting for an ideal job, is an entitlement that most of us cannot afford. It sounds like you can't afford for your partner to do that either.

Having said all that, it is emotionally difficult to be where your partner is at. It's tougher than you might think to come to a decision like this. It is usually final, or at least feels that way. So you need to talk to her about this and try get her to open up regarding her own fears. Is it that she can't countenance any step away from her field for fear she might have to abandon it?
It also sounds like she has built up a bit of anxiety about work situations. I had that too, but you learn on the job. Finally, she's probably not feeling great about not having money and relying on you too. Personally, I found that my limited abilities to financially contribute made me feel awful. But that's also why I took on minimum wage retail work to supplement any proper hours that I got. That's a minimum requirement as far as I'm concerned.

Anyway, her approach so far seems to lack awareness, or more likely, involve quite a bit of avoidance/head in the sand. You're a partnership so you need to find a way to discuss this constructively together. Long term, you need to discuss what her concrete plans are regarding her career. You need to find out what her plans B and C for alternative careers. If she doesn't know, she needs to find out - figure out transferable skills etc. Short term, you need to encourage her to identify something that she can do to supplement her income. Because it's not viable at the moment. Hopefully she'll meet you half way on this.

I'd also cut out the itemised list of costs stuff. I don't think that helps.

....... · 04-05-2017 11:45AM

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Big Bag of Chips · 04-05-2017 12:38PM

I agree that she needs to find work, but you are not faultless here. You 'happily' pay for things. You organise things that you know she can't afford but that you want to do, and then you start getting frustrated that she should be more grateful to you.

The things she asks you to do in/around the house etc are things that couples do/argue over all the time!! Just because you pay for stuff doesn't mean that you are going to have a picture perfect relationship and that she'll never have a bad day, or need to moan about something.

I'll be perfectly honest and say I didn't read your full post because what I read was how you, volunteered to pay for everything, enjoy treating yourselves to nice things and then get annoyed at her if she's ever in less than perfect form. It sounds like you think you are buying a service from her and she isn't providing what you think she should. Say even if she does get a job, full time, well paid, if she then takes time off to raise children will you still expect the same level of 'obedience' from her?

Life gets in the way of even the most romantic story, and people sometimes need to give out about things! You need to sit down as a couple and work together, as a couple, a unit. Sometimes communication in relationships can go a bit skew-ways and people lose sight of their relationship and what's important in that.

Talk to her, without talking down to her.

04-05-2017 02:04PM

I agree with the others that she needs to work or you both need to accept that's never gonna happen and move on, but a couple of things struck me:

TestingBurger wrote: »

There are times I feel like she's taking things for granted, acting like she owns the place, with a sense of entitlement. Like for instance one day when I had a couple of skype calls, and then my Dad calls me again and keps bugging me about some computer issue he was having, and I remember me and her had agreed that evening to have a quiet night in, spend time alone, go for a walk, and she got a little annoyed that I was spending time on skype (she gave me a dirty look when my Dad called again). When all of the above things happen... there is something inside me that reacts very strongly, and I know it has to do with money.I know this is a nasty reaction, but I feel like saying it to her in those instances. If she starts organising things in the house and making decisions, I feel like saying "Who made you chief? Stop acting like you own this place and have some humility". Humility is not her strong point, and there are times I feel she's all too happy to take take take.

The ego part of me comes up. I feel like I should be able to do whatever the heck I like in my free time, without her getting annoyed or disapproving of it. All because I've paid for most stuff we have in the house.

Jaysus, she gets pissed off because you had a plan to go for a walk at a certain time which didn't work out and you have these thoughts in your head? Maybe her "acting like she owns the place" is simply her making herself AT HOME, where she IS.

And it also seems like you think she should have no input in your relationship because you pay for everything?

There's another issue about the house you inherited:

TestingBurger wrote: »

"Who do you think you are? You're lucky to even be here". Other feelings that come up are, "Did you put 10,000euro into this house in renovations? Do you go to work in an office everyday to pay all these bills and pay for this car and pay for the insurance and all the petrol that got us here? No, well then don't tell me when I can and can't skype with my Dad".

she goes on and on about how much she loves our little place in the country and how happy she is that I'm sharing it with her and that we have a garden. She invites friends and tells them how much she loves being here, etc. So at times she seems really grateful for everything and happy with it. But sometimes she might make comments like "The road noise really disturbs my mind" or "I haven't decided yet if I like the sounds coming from the local sports field or not, maybe if they are there a lot of evenings in the summer will start to grate on me", or "The people here are so old fashioned and conservative" or "The land has really been shaped so much by agriculture, so little of it is natural countryside", and I sometimes react internally when she says these things. I mean, the place isn't perfect but it's mine... and now ours actually, as I'm sharing everything with her. I've worked very hard to renovate the place and spent a lot of time - many years - working in the office to save money so I could make it nice. I don't like to focus on negative things... I just want to make the best of what we have. When she moans a bit about these little things, I kind of see it as like someone who has paid big money for a hotel room and they are entitled to complain if there is road noise. But - wait a second, she hasn't paid a penny to be in this house. Yes, she puts her time in when we're working on projects here but honestly, I don't feel she's in a position to start complaining about these imperfections. I feel she should be grateful with what we have and not complain about it. I feel she's acting like an entitled spoilt brat, and I think it's a bit bitchy.

I've told her that I'm entitled to skype my Dad whenever I feckin like, and when you put 10000 of your hard earned cash into this house, then you will be in a position to make me feel guilty for talking too much to my Dad on skype and not going for a walk with you on time.

Again, these are simple comments she's making about her environment, you're taking them far too personally and reacting far too strongly.

Whatever about the financial situation, your perception of "her attitude" is very unhealthy and you should have a good long think about whether or not it IS her attitude or just your perception.

You're perfectly entitled to expect her to work (I personally couldn't stand not being able to pay my way) but you can't bang on about how happy you are to share with her and have these thoughts as well.

It actually sounds like she's hit crisis point and what I would do is start from scratch at this point and move forward. We get lots of posts here from concerned spouses when their partner has been unemployed for a significant length of time and seems to be in a rut and this is no different.

Sit down and tell her that you/she can't continue like this so either it has to change or you have to separate.

redfox123 · 04-05-2017 02:54PM

I stopped reading too after the comments that you wish she would just put up and shut up and never complain, and you just want to do whatever you want in your spare time and her always be in good form. What's that about? This is not the 50s and she's not a stepford wife simply because you are in control of most of the finances and spending. It's almost like you're allowing/enabling it to a certain extent, so you feel you should have this person at home to keep your house clean, bed warm and always be pleasant company. I really don't think your attitude would change that much if she was working full time, it would shift to something else. You're not going to welcome all her complaints about her job and how crap she feels sometimes when she's working either. You never mentioned love, just that you like her companionship. Maybe I'm wrong but I think you look down on her because she's not working.

Also, it really is not that easy to get a steady full time office job if you don't already work in one, and someone with a phd will almost be avoided because they what someone who they think will stick at the job and not get bored and just has the commitment to it..not saying your OH doesn't, it's just not like you can walk into these jobs. All the posters saying I had to work a sh*t job through college, that's not the same, most people have but the OPs gf is finished college and needs a job to settle in. I know when I couldn't get a job (and was applying to everything) every min wage or entry level job had hundreds of applicants and they had their pick of the most suitable for them. Someone with completely unrelated qualifications and not much experience will not be picked over a younger person who's done a course in office admin and has a few years experience in a directly related role.

You both need to sit down and talk positively about what needs to be done. She's obviously afraid of being stuck in a shop job and wasting all that time and money that she invested in her qualifications. But she also does need to be applying to jobs, not just her ideal job, so she can fully support herself. Also she needs to make a plan of what she can be doing while applying to or working in whatever job, so it's not wasted time and she can take little steps towards a bigger goal of getting a position in something in a relevant area.

Big Bag of Chips · 04-05-2017 08:16PM

TestingBurger wrote: »

I feel like I should be able to do whatever the heck I like in my free time, without her getting annoyed or disapproving of it.

Then you're probably better off staying single! I'm not saying you should NEVER be able to do what you like in your free time, but when you're part of a couple you need to compromise and appreciate that you have to consider another person now.

I've paid for most stuff we have in the house. If I want to go off to my parents for the weekend, or spend time with the lads, I feel like she should quietly accept it and look after the house projects that we are doing together if necessary, without a grumble or a moan. After all, she's lucky to have a roof over her head right?

That is a really terrible attitude to hold towards the person you consider your 'partner'. Actually, do you consider her your partner, or your housekeeper?

sometimes she might make comments like "The road noise really disturbs my mind" or "I haven't decided yet if I like the sounds coming from the local sports field or not, maybe if they are there a lot of evenings in the summer will start to grate on me", or "The people here are so old fashioned and conservative" or "The land has really been shaped so much by agriculture, so little of it is natural countryside"

Is this not just all conversation though?

sometimes react internally when she says these things. I mean, the place isn't perfect but it's mine... and now ours actually, as I'm sharing everything with her. I've worked very hard to renovate the place and spent a lot of time - many years - working in the office to save money so I could make it nice. I don't like to focus on negative things...

Why are you taking her comments about the landscape and old fashioned neighbours personally, and why are you somehow linking that to your renovations and hard work? You've said she compliments the house. She makes it homely. She shows it off to her friends, with pride. Saying the landscape has been shaped by agriculture is an observation on the landscape, not a criticism of your renovations!!

I think this ship has sailed to be honest. You hold too much resentment now, and I'm not sure if there's really a way back for you. If she started paying an equal share towards the house would she be allowed voice an opinion on the landscape and old fashioned neighbours? Would you feel more inclined to stick to agreed plans with her?

And don't be convincing yourself that you are "sharing" everything with her, and that it's your (pl) house. If you split up tomorrow she wouldn't get a "share" of anything!

osarusan · 04-05-2017 08:31PM

It sounds like you think that as you are contributing so much more financially, you think you should be allowed to do whatever you want and she she should just be happy with that.

I mean, some of what you're saying doesn't even make sense. Like, if she contributes more, then you'll stop skyping your father whenever you feel like it and will do what you agreed you would do - that's either a right or wrong way to behave, regardless of who is paying for what. I wonder can you see my point on that?

Sunflower 27 · 05-05-2017 06:48AM

Big Bag of Chips wrote: »

I agree that she needs to find work, but you are not faultless here. You 'happily' pay for things. You organise things that you know she can't afford but that you want to do, and then you start getting frustrated that she should be more grateful to you.

The things she asks you to do in/around the house etc are things that couples do/argue over all the time!! Just because you pay for stuff doesn't mean that you are going to have a picture perfect relationship and that she'll never have a bad day, or need to moan about something.

I'll be perfectly honest and say I didn't read your full post because what I read was how you, volunteered to pay for everything, enjoy treating yourselves to nice things and then get annoyed at her if she's ever in less than perfect form. It sounds like you think you are buying a service from her and she isn't providing what you think she should. Say even if she does get a job, full time, well paid, if she then takes time off to raise children will you still expect the same level of 'obedience' from her?

Life gets in the way of even the most romantic story, and people sometimes need to give out about things! You need to sit down as a couple and work together, as a couple, a unit. Sometimes communication in relationships can go a bit skew-ways and people lose sight of their relationship and what's important in that.

Talk to her, without talking down to her.

Great post, although I would say that while the OP did enable this behaviour, I imagine it was with the logic she would 'soon' find work.

She needs to get off her high horse and get a job. If you weren't there for her OP, where would she be? Id say working minimum wage and desperately looking for something better.

Ringing family before getting a minimum wage job shows to me how reluctant she is to work in minimum wage jobs. She'd taking the p#ss.

Big Bag of Chips · 05-05-2017 08:28AM

Sunflower 27 wrote: »

She'd taking the p#ss.

I don't disagree.

The OP's overall attitude though makes for uncomfortable reading.

99problems · 05-05-2017 08:38AM

Yeah she's a waster , dump her

LegacyUser · 05-05-2017 09:38AM

redfox123 wrote: »

You both need to sit down and talk positively about what needs to be done. She's obviously afraid of being stuck in a shop job and wasting all that time and money that she invested in her qualifications. But she also does need to be applying to jobs, not just her ideal job, so she can fully support herself. Also she needs to make a plan of what she can be doing while applying to or working in whatever job, so it's not wasted time and she can take little steps towards a bigger goal of getting a position in something in a relevant area.

I actually did say I loved her in my post, if you read it all.

But I agree, we need to sit down and talk it out and see what she could do to take the right steps. The career advice in the UNI made her just feel bad, and careers fairs make her want to throw up with all the corporate nonsense. She really is averse to the somewhat materialistic capitalist way things are in the job world.

Thanks for all the other responses, I will get to responding to you now.

Lollipops23 · 05-05-2017 09:55AM

TestingBurger wrote: »

But I agree, we need to sit down and talk it out and see what she could do to take the right steps. The career advice in the UNI made her just feel bad, and careers fairs make her want to throw up with all the corporate nonsense. She really is averse to the somewhat materialistic capitalist way things are in the job world.

Isn't it well for her to be so principled? Unfortunately you can't pay bills with principles and her idealism hasn't exactly served her well thus far.

To be honest, her pretentiousness and lack of responsibility is extremely unattractive and is ringing major alarm bells for me. Think very carefully about how you can plan a future together when she behaves like this and you're already harbouring resentful thoughts.

leggo · 05-05-2017 09:57AM

Yeah a lot of so called anti-capitalists like to pick and choose the aspects of capitalism that suit them to despise, such as working for a living, when they've no problem feeding the corporate machine with money for new clothes etc. It's not a valid excuse, it's laziness dressed up.

SusieBlue · 05-05-2017 10:01AM

Lollipops23 wrote: »

Isn't it well for her to be so principled? Unfortunately you can't pay bills with principles and her idealism hasn't exactly served her well thus far.

To be honest, her pretentiousness and lack of responsibility is extremely unattractive and is ringing major alarm bells for me. Think very carefully about how you can plan a future together when she behaves like this and you're already harbouring resentful thoughts.

Couldn't agree more. Principles won't bring the bacon home. I would argue that the vast majority of people don't enjoy or even like their jobs, but its a means to an end. If we all had her attitude almost everyone would be unemployed.
If she didn't have you, by her own logic, she would be destitute, because she couldn't possibly work in a job that wasn't worthy. Such an unattractive attitude.

Whispered · 05-05-2017 10:03AM

Lollipops23 wrote: »

I have always felt that being a stay at home mother wouldn't be for me, due to the fact that I could never be financially dependent on someone else. Looks like she has no such qualms about being a burden.

Not even remotely the same thing. in the majority of cases families who choose to have a parent stay at home do so for very specific reasons. It's a family decision and only works when everyone is on the same page. Income is the households income as opposed to one persons income. Ops partner just seems to be mooching and the op seems to have very definite ideas of what is his and what is (and isn't) hers. There was never a decision made that this is how they will live their lives, it's like a dynamic that they just fell into.

Op I can understand why you'd be annoyed but tbh the way you speak about your partner is bordering on odd. Do you expect her to just shut up and present a facade of happiness at all times? Would you rather her be fake? By all means address her lack of work but you really do need to look at your attitude to her and your relationship.

squonk · 05-05-2017 10:47AM

My brief 2c

Your gf needs to go talk to a career counsellor to help her get into the track she needs to be on. It'll be empowering and better for herself. She needs to stop this bs about being afraid of the workplace based on past jobs. A career counsellor will help her work through her options and give her pointers on where she needs to be and what to do to get there.

You need to start thinking about your future with your gf. It sounds like you're resentful already and it's beginning to sound like an unhealthy relationship is developing. Maybe time to move on before things turn very sour.

CiniO · 05-05-2017 11:53AM

OP o think you need to decide if you want to have a housekeeper-whore type of person who you sponsor and expect obediency. Or do you want a girlfriend/partner/wife type od person?

If the former then maybe you should start paying more and maybe she will start obeying your wishes.

If the latter though, then start thinking of her and treating her like your partner.
Relationship is about respecting each other and surely you expecting her to be greatful and allowing you for more than she would normally just because you pay for it, is not a way to go.

If situation, where you provide most money and she doesn't annoys you, then either tell her that you don't want such relationship and ask her to get a job or break it up.

On the other hand if you love her and want to be with her and you can afford to keep going like you are going then let it stay like it is.

There's plenty relationships where one side sponsors the other and nothing wrong wit it.

I was kinda in similar situation. I was with my girlfriend since end of secondary school.
My family provided me with good standard during college, so I had my own apartment, own car, could go out often enough, holiday every few weekends, etc...
My girlfriend though had nothing, coming from poor family her parents could only pay for her accommodation and food, nothing else, and even this was a struggle.

I loved her (still do) and wanted to be with her, so I had no other option than paying for nearly everything, including allowing her to live with me, paying bills, taking her out and on holidays, etc...

I never ever mentioned anything about it and allowed our relationship to be on equal-equal basis.

Now things have changed a bit, and its actually her making more money then I do, but all still works the same and we're still happy together, married, kids, etc.

In short you never know what life will bring in the future.
If you're happy with her and can afford to pay for your life together, do.
If you are angry though that you have to give all money while she gives nothing, then probably its better to stay single.

SusieBlue · 05-05-2017 02:18PM

I think there is a difference between a partner falling on hard times and being unable to contribute wholly, and a partner who thinks they are too good for a minimum wage job and will only work in her desired sector, despite there being extremely limited opportunities in that sector, and hence ends up long term unemployed.

There are many circumstances life throws at us where one partner ends up earning for the household - illness, disability, child rearing, sudden redundancy etc, but I don't see how anyone finds it acceptable that an able bodied educated fully grown woman sits at home all day doing nothing while her partner finances their life together in every way. It isn't healthy and it isn't fair and I can see how resentment and bitterness would fester in that kind of environment which appears to be what is happening now.

LegacyUser · 05-05-2017 02:20PM

Thanks for all the responses.
Side note: She never buys clothes - not sure where you guys got the idea she does. She hasn't shopped for clothes or shoes in years, hasn't had any stylist or anything like that. She's found things or been given things from others, so her attitude towards capitalism could be given a little more credence.

CiniO, your response was very helpful.

"In short you never know what life will bring in the future.
If you're happy with her and can afford to pay for your life together, do.
If you are angry though that you have to give all money while she gives nothing, then probably its better to stay single."

We often joke together that someday the tables will be turned, and she'll be the one making the money while I will be able to do my [insert passion] fulltime.

Bottom-line is... yeah, I think her attitude stinks sometimes. Some of her "outside of the box" thinking that initially attracted me so much, that made her stand out to me as very individual, attractive and interesting in the beginning, is now just an annoying and pretentious (as I fill the car with another tank of petrol). I think sometimes she's too high and mighty to get a basic job, and perhaps she even looks down on people who are slaving away at jobs they hate. Yet on the other hand, she still feels really sad that she's unable to provide for herself financially at times, and is not comfortable relying on others.

But you guys are right about me too. My attitude also stinks. I've allowed resentment to build. I've had unkind and odd thoughts about what I own and what we share. None of it gives me a right to expect her to be subservient, or to act in any particular way that is not authentic with how she feels within.

You're right, we've fallen into this situation. No formal decisions were made. I'm always thinking that around the corner she will sort it out. Then she falls into yet another existential crisis and I'm like "don't worry, we'll be fine. You can use this / have this for now, you don't need to worry about money or job". Inwardly, at the time, I'm quite happy with this. But if I feel she's getting all too comfortable with her situation, and doesn't recognise or acknowledge what I'm doing for her, then I close up and resent it.

I'm enabling her behavior, because it's the easy and comfortable thing to do and it means zero conflict (short term at least) but then long term I'm building up a terrible sense of entitlement based on what I've provided her with, and perhaps I haven't been giving with my whole heart.

I do love her, so much. I want to work through this. But in my own dumb attempts to help her out, I've enabled her bad habits and allowed her to stick to her guns on her de-growth, and anti-neoliberalist ideals by staying away from the work that would make this relationship feel more equal to me.

And maybe I'm just not able to do it. Maybe I feel too uncomfortable in this situation. Maybe emotionally I just am not handling it well, especially with this sense of "don't argue with me, I paid for this ****"... you guys are right, it's an extremely unhealthy attitude to have, and it is affecting how I feel about her.

I love her enough to keep going and try and work through this. But I just don't know how to change things... she's already gone to a career guidance session and she cringed at their suggestions. She felt violated after a careers fair. I don't know what she's going to do.
Is career counselling a different thing? Would it help to deal with her deep emotional problems and anxiety around work?

The difficulties caused by money in our relationship...

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