Update on the Quays cycle route

Kaisr Sose · 28-04-2017 10:22PM #1

Just seen this:

http://independent.ie/irish-news/ban-on-private-cars-from-dublins-eden-quay-to-be-abandoned-under-revised-traffic-plan-35664625.html

Not so sure about the proposed boardwalk cycle path. Though I stopped using the quays a long time ago.

ThisRegard · 29-04-2017 12:27AM

Whatever about the convention centre, it's not like the point has events on a daily basis.

Kaisr Sose · 29-04-2017 12:47AM

It seems crazy to pander to those special event needs and ignore daily ones. It's easy to get to those via a less direct route and that is where the message should be. If you want to bring your car into town, you have to go a circuitous route. Public transport has priority! Sorry, this is this future of multi modal transport in cities the world over. When will Ireland step up to this thinking?

DanDublin1982 · 29-04-2017 01:44AM

Put simply I will not cycle on a boardwalk. Absolute shambles.

Lumen · 29-04-2017 07:29AM

DanDublin1982 wrote: »

Put simply I will not cycle on a boardwalk. Absolute shambles.

Presumably cyclists will still be able to cycle in the bus lane(s).

ford2600 · 29-04-2017 07:48AM

Deedsie wrote: »

Ah it's just embarrassing at this stage. They had a solution and inevitably they fluffed it as they always do.

Buses and private cars sharing a lane. Prioritise public and active transport in the city centre for goodness sake and stop pandering to inefficient private motorists who are the cause of traffic congestion in Dublin and every other town and city in Ireland.

The manner in which Local Authorities are run in Ireland doesn't lend itself to vision/strong leadership. We run our cities/counties by committee/lobbying with the role of Mayor symbolic only.

Waterford City (and now County also) has a manager cut from a different cloth. Since his appointment the City has had (very badly needed) works to make it a prettier and more enjoyable city to sample. Also he drove the Greenway.

He is the exception though; Dublin needs someone like him; but given the number of local authorities in the greater Dublin area I wouldn't hold my breath

mr spuckler · 29-04-2017 09:12AM

ford2600 wrote: »

The manner in which Local Authorities are run in Ireland doesn't lend itself to vision/strong leadership. We run our cities/counties by committee/lobbying with the role of Mayor symbolic only.

Waterford City (and now County also) has a manager cut from a different cloth. Since his appointment the City has had (very badly needed) works to make it a prettier and more enjoyable city to sample. Also he drove the Greenway.

He is the exception though; Dublin needs someone like him; but given the number of local authorities in the greater Dublin area I wouldn't hold my breath

on first reading i took that literally and felt a rage grow inside me!

mr spuckler · 29-04-2017 09:14AM

also very disappointed in ciaran cuffe signalling approval for this boardwalk plan.

ciaran cuffe wrote:

Transport Committee chairman Ciaran Cuffe said he was pleased with the compromise about building a boardwalk cycleway to prevent diversions off the quays.

boobycharlton · 29-04-2017 09:26AM

It's a joke. I don't know why I was expecting a different outcome though. I've emailed every member of the DCC transport committee to inform them of my disappointment in the decision and my reasons why, not that it will make a lick of difference at the end of the day.

jon1981 · 29-04-2017 09:59AM

Boardwalk won't be used and a waste of money.

Kaisr Sose · 29-04-2017 10:12AM

Can be summed up as follows:

"Doing the same thing over and over, and expecting a different result"

jon1981 · 29-04-2017 11:00AM

In 1 years time when the cross city luas is up and running and everything is at a standstill on the quays, the lightbulb will finally come on
... assuming they haven't taxed cars out of the city by then!

beauf · 29-04-2017 12:32PM

Weepsie wrote: »

Ffs, the plan was far from perfect but objections from convention center and the point were taken seriously? Most attendees to both arrive by LUAS or on foot...

I dunno about that. Anytime there's any event in either of these its grid lock throughout the city.

I don't think anyone who makes these decisions commutes by bicycle. They seem to treat cycling like its people out on a Sunday afternoon wandering about. Rather than a transport system in itself.

beauf · 29-04-2017 12:33PM

I don't find the north quays that bad. Its the south quays especially getting out of town and into the phoenix park I don't like.

jon1981 · 29-04-2017 01:02PM

beauf wrote: »

I don't find the north quays that bad. Its the south quays especially getting out of town and into the phoenix park I don't like.

Must be time of the day. From smithfield up to bus aras during 5-7pm is mayhem, some evenings not even a bike can get up the quays between the lanes.

beauf · 29-04-2017 01:17PM

I'd be going opposite direction at that time of day.

jon1981 · 29-04-2017 02:19PM

beauf wrote: »

I'd be going opposite direction at that time of day.

I see, actually i find the south quays grand in the morning as I'd be going opposite direction also

magicbastarder · 29-04-2017 05:26PM

is it time for the dublin cycling campaign to publically admit defeat - as in make an issue of it - that nothing will ever happen on the quays?
it's a bit like throwing good money after bad, and it's time that was publically declared.
concentrate on other routes that people don't have their knickers nearly as much of a in, when it comes to reconfiguring them.

axer · 29-04-2017 05:41PM

Meanwhile traffic congestion in Dublin is estimated to be costing around €350 million per year. But f* cyclists - why build proper infrastructure for them - they don't pay road tax...

ThisRegard · 29-04-2017 05:54PM

beauf wrote: »

I don't find the north quays that bad. Its the south quays especially getting out of town and into the phoenix park I don't like.

I've always found the opposite, south quays the better of the two.

axer · 29-04-2017 06:11PM

ThisRegard wrote: »

I've always found the opposite, south quays the better of the two.

I find the stretch outside Guinness very dangerous with cars speeding and taxis doing close passes while I'm in the bus lane. If someone wants to go through the phoenix park they have to cross to the other side of that three lane road with this fast traffic.

Then there is where lower bridge Street traffic (by the brazen head) joins the quays with a slip road type junction. Been nearly taken out there a number of times when I'm already on the quays and the don't see me and keep going (even though I have hi-vis on!).

HivemindXX · 29-04-2017 07:47PM

On the North vs South debate I find the North quays to be worse. I go this way during the busiest commuting time in the morning and the bus lane is jammed with busses, coaches and taxis. A huge number of which are trying very slowly to change lanes to go around obstructions (busses at stops, taxis stopped anywhere they like and delivery vehicles). My only trips along the south quays are well after busy commuting times so I guess the comparison isn't fair but I find it a lot less crowded and therefore better. It does have the quality of changing from three lanes to two lanes and back again at least twice which is something that does not help cyclist safety at all.

As far as how many people get to the point or the convention centre by car versus public transport I don't know the numbers but I think you should bear in mind that it doesn't take all that many extra cars to jam up the city centre. Just because traffic slows to a crawl when there is something on does not mean that a large percentage of the attendees are arriving by car. Even if they do I don't think that implies that they should be facilitated at the expense of improving the more efficient and more sustainable options.

LennoxR · 29-04-2017 11:40PM

DanDublin1982 wrote: »

Put simply I will not cycle on a boardwalk. Absolute shambles.

Just to play devil's advocate, why not? What if the boardwalk was resurfaced?

(Not being confrontational, just want to tease this out).

LennoxR · 29-04-2017 11:54PM

Weepsie wrote: »

Sure you'll be having to cross the traffic lanes to get onto them, then cross them again if not crossing the Liffey and yield to traffic at virtually every junction that's there. It would merge with pedestrian crossing continually too. It's a crap idea that's just been bolted on last minutes.

it tends to be visited upon by some of Dublin city's less than savoury people too.

Good points. So it's not about the surface of the boardwalk then? I have occasionally taken a short cut on it and found it fairly wobbly to cycle on. But I assume they'll do something with the surface.

What if they built a cycling boardwalk the length of the quays, could that conceivably work?

Thinkingaboutit · 30-04-2017 12:04AM

Possibly the least unexpected decision in a while. This is the genius of Kennyianity, give something to different lobbyists, preferably more to the better connected. Those of limited perspective might complain that people outside the golden circle find their commute or lives in general more miserable, but most of the lobbyists have got something, and that's what counts. Bertie of the Yellow Trousers was the John the Baptist of Kennyianity, or its the reverse, or something.

These one way streets so beloved of an earlier generation of planner need to disappear. Reversion might slow cars down, but that's the point. I like to think I cycle fast and move about nimbly, but there are so many points where a cyclist needs to cross several lanes of cars, sometimes coming from more than one direction. Dublin city centre is not pleasant to cycle when it gets anyway busy.

HivemindXX · 30-04-2017 12:29AM

LennoxR wrote: »

Good points. So it's not about the surface of the boardwalk then? I have occasionally taken a short cut on it and found it fairly wobbly to cycle on. But I assume they'll do something with the surface.

What if they built a cycling boardwalk the length of the quays, could that conceivably work?

Wet wood is dreadful to cycle on. We may assume that they would resurface with something that isn't slippery as hell but I wouldn't like to bet on it. However my main complaint would be the shambles that will be every bridge. The loss of priority and mingling with pedestrians will be made worse by the poor sight lines the walls will almost certainly result in.

There's two main problem that absolutely will not be resolved by this. First cyclists will be far worse off at every bridge. Second any cyclist that wants to take a left, for example in to Jervis Street, will have to use the main road where they will be vulnerable to wannabe vigilantes in busses and taxis for having the cheek to use the road when they should be on the cycle path. If both those issues disappeared I'd be willing to deal with the minor issues but I suspect you would need to replace the planners with some sort of team of wizards.

LennoxR · 30-04-2017 12:32AM

Weepsie wrote: »

Possibly, but you'd still have to merge with traffic and yield to it more than should be necessary. Dublin is a small even with its sprawl. It's unnecessary for many people (not all) to be entering the city by car

Perhaps, but I quite like the idea of a segregated cycle boardwalk, should that be the proposal.

It would eliminate the dodgiest aspect of riding on the quays at the moment - sharing the bus lane with buses that constantly pull in in front of you.

(edit, @ Hive Mind, I hadn't considered the problem of bridges or left turns, good points though)

That said, if the proposal is that cyclists should simply be diverted onto the current boardwalk with no modifications then it is indeed cr_ap idea and unusable.

jimmycrackcorm · 30-04-2017 01:10AM

LennoxR wrote:

Just to play devil's advocate, why not? What if the boardwalk was resurfaced?

It reminds me of the of road cycle paths near my house that I don't use because if I'm on the road I can travel with the traffic. But on the cycle paths I have to stop at every estate entrance to check for cars entering and exiting the estates.

Also like cycle paths there will be pedestrians blocking the way.

I can't understand why there couldn't be priority traffic in favour of buses and cyclists during commute times.

CramCycle · 30-04-2017 08:41AM

Christ on a bike, they really need either people with backbone or people who are not influenced by brown envelopes. All this talk. I feel like death in that Monty Python sketch, all they do is talk. At this point, if they had closed the quays off to private traffic during peak hours with no planning, the problem would have resolved itself by now. Private operators would have put in car parks on the outskirts, buses would have jumped in number as well as alternative routes coming online.

ThisRegard · 30-04-2017 08:45AM

HivemindXX wrote: »

However my main complaint would be the shambles that will be every bridge. The loss of priority and mingling with pedestrians will be made worse by the poor sight lines the walls will almost certainly result in.

I was thinking of this myself, how would they even attempt to try a solution at each bridge? There's no space, the footpaths are narrow enough for pedestrians at the corner of each one, not even taking into account the Ha'penney and Millennium bridges, and the motor cross traffic will be a disaster. Most will stick with the buslane.

DanDublin1982 · 30-04-2017 08:58AM

LennoxR wrote: »

Just to play devil's advocate, why not? What if the boardwalk was resurfaced?

(Not being confrontational, just want to tease this out).

The surface would be my main problem yes but where you have a boardwalk you will also have pedestrians whatever the surface. A problem that simply wouldn't exist if the cycleway was on road.

I mailed Ciaran Cuffe and in fairness he got back to me fairly quickly. He sent me on some pages on the report on this and the boardwalk proposed will be for Eillis and Aaran quays only. The rest of the cycle way is still on the road....for now at least.

Update on the Quays cycle route

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