Liverpool FC Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours 2016/2017

BorneTobyWilde · 26-04-2017 12:49PM

Gerrard would be more useful than Henderson is at the moment.

BorneTobyWilde · 26-04-2017 12:51PM

Why would we sell one of our best players of the last 5 years for zero? A young guy like Lucas who will be in his prime for next 4 years.

chicorytip · 26-04-2017 01:01PM

BullBlackNova wrote:

Their whole team is set up to be strong defensively and we have seen this time and time again - every one of Lovren, Fonte, Clyne and Shaw has looked worse defensively since leaving Southampton because they don't have the same protection, organisation, etc.

There are added psychological pressures that players have to cope with when playing for an elite as opposed to a middle ranking club. You are placed under far greater scrutiny by a far more demanding and expectant fanbase where every mistake will be analysed and harshly criticised. Some just can't deal with that.

internelligent · 26-04-2017 01:08PM

corwill wrote: »

Mods, can internelligent be blocked from starting match threads, please? And maybe some sort of virtual neck-bell?

I will never start a match thread. ....ever.

Sappy404 · 26-04-2017 01:21PM

brevity wrote: »

I can't really get my head around this - why he is so expensive?

He's arguably the best centre half in the league not currently playing for Tottenham.

In any case, there is currently no context for a Premier League player's price - there is simply too much of an increase in club revenues for anything we know about transfer fees to apply.

Remember the outrage when Mané cost £30m last June? By August it looked like a steal before a ball was even kicked. Pogba's world transfer record fee will be beaten more than once this summer IMO, and I'd be flabbergasted if at least half the clubs in the Premier League don't break their transfer records.

I'd even extend it to any major league in Europe if it's an English club doing the buying. Everything we know about value in the transfer market is outdated. It's best for us not to worry about the fees and just debate whether the players are right for the club IMO.

Grayditch · 26-04-2017 01:24PM

I think we should raid West Ham and Newcastle.

26-04-2017 01:25PM

Grayditch wrote: »

I think we should raid West Ham and Newcastle.

Rafa? :pac:

J Mysterio · 26-04-2017 02:05PM

Knex. wrote: »

We've shown a lack of ambition in the player recruitment department for a bit too long now. There seems to be a fear of having good players on the bench. Sign a first teamer, immediately sell one who may not work out type mentality. We should have the revenue streams and financial input from FSG to move on from this a bit now.

100% this. We have definitely shown a lack of ambition on the transfer market for a long time.

J Mysterio · 26-04-2017 02:07PM

brevity wrote: »

I can't really get my head around this - why he is so expensive?

Because we are supposedly interested?

J Mysterio · 26-04-2017 02:09PM

Boom_Bap wrote: »

My view is to let the accountants in the club look after the money. If a player that we want is deemed affordable, make the offer.

VVD was a player that clubs were sniffing around but unwilling to take a gamble on. Celtic took that gamble and it payed off for them.
Southampton took the same gamble by bringing him to the EPL, it paid off as his abilities transferred very well to the EPL and he has improved as a player as well.

There are many other players that take this same route, Gini is one that springs to mind and that worked out well for us.

As far as VVD goes, do I see him as an upgrade on Lovren in all areas, yes I do.
More commanding in presence and aerial ability.
More physical.
More composed.
Better tackler.
Better reading of the line.
Plays the ball forward more instead of accross the back four.

The only 2 things that Lovren has is that he is excellent with both feet and can play left and right side of the central pairing.

Lovren is excellent with both feet? :pac:

J Mysterio · 26-04-2017 02:11PM

Boom_Bap wrote: »

If you have 2 central defenders that can play a high line, this reduces the need for a pure DM.
So with VVD and Matip, we would have that.
I think that is why he doesn't buy in to Sahko as being a starter for us.

I dont buy that argument RE: Sakho at all. What makes you think Matip is suited to a high line defence where Sakho is not?

J Mysterio · 26-04-2017 02:14PM

brevity wrote: »

Nice piece on Ronnie Whelan:

http://thesefootballtimes.co/2017/04/26/how-ronnie-whelan-became-the-most-underrated-liverpool-star-of-all/

I'd wager a few around here are here because of him

Maybe that is why he is so angry.

BorneTobyWilde · 26-04-2017 02:17PM

Grayditch wrote: »

I think we should raid West Ham and Newcastle.

Tool late, someone got there before us.

Boom_Bap · 26-04-2017 02:24PM

J Mysterio wrote: »

Lovren is excellent with both feet? :pac:

His passing and stiking of a ball is equal on both sides. I recall a big thing about it here before when it came out that he was left or right footed when everyone thought the opposite.

J Mysterio wrote: »

I dont buy that argument RE: Sakho at all. What makes you think Matip is suited to a high line defence where Sakho is not?

How many times do you see Matip making last ditch sliding tackles?
Now think about how many times Sahko does it.

The defenders who are not making them are the ones that are in the right position or are capable of moving with the pace of the opposition attackers.

The ones who are doing those tackles are the ones that are getting caught out positionally.

Mr.H · 26-04-2017 02:25PM

J Mysterio wrote:

I dont buy that argument RE: Sakho at all. What makes you think Matip is suited to a high line defence where Sakho is not?

Sakho is too unpredictable as a center back. Players targeted him because he often gave the ball away and left our keeper exposed. Sakho isn't reliable enough

corwill · 26-04-2017 03:09PM

Nice bit on Ronnie Whelan. http://thesefootballtimes.co/2017/04/26/how-ronnie-whelan-became-the-most-underrated-liverpool-star-of-all/

cj maxx · 26-04-2017 03:48PM

brevity wrote: »

Nice piece on Ronnie Whelan:

http://thesefootballtimes.co/2017/04/26/how-ronnie-whelan-became-the-most-underrated-liverpool-star-of-all/

I'd wager a few around here are here because of him

Absolutely loved whelan in that team of the 80's. Best team I ever saw

brevity · 26-04-2017 03:52PM

corwill wrote: »

Nice bit on Ronnie Whelan. http://thesefootballtimes.co/2017/04/26/how-ronnie-whelan-became-the-most-underrated-liverpool-star-of-all/

Too slow corwill :cool:

Utopia Parkway · 26-04-2017 03:56PM

Mr.H wrote: »

Sakho is too unpredictable as a center back. Players targeted him because he often gave the ball away and left our keeper exposed. Sakho isn't reliable enough

I believe the stats showed he didn't give the ball away nearly as much as people think. He just tended to have these mad few minutes every now and then which coloured the perception of him but generally his passing from the back was pretty reliable.

Agent Coulson · 26-04-2017 04:53PM

Sessegnon being linked again today.

Sessegnon at 16 hasn't signed his first pro contract yet and that won't be put in front of him till the 1st of July with Fulham.

I wonder are we trying to get on a tribunal fee instead of playing Fulham a huge transfer fee.

Harry Palmr · 26-04-2017 05:08PM

Agent Coulson wrote: »

Sessegnon being linked again today.

Sessegnon at 16 hasn't signed his first pro contract yet and that won't be put in front of him till the 1st of July with Fulham.

I wonder are we trying to get on a tribunal fee instead of playing Fulham a huge transfer fee.

The tribunal fee will be pretty big precisely because his transfer fee would be, I dunno, 15m?

I'm sure they will try to get him to sign and he might be happy to do so as a thank you

mormank · 26-04-2017 05:17PM

corwill wrote: »

If our transfers are to be dictated in that fashion, and the club has that little confidence in its scouting, then we might as well go home. Keeping people 'happy' isn't the objective, or shouldn't be.

I couldn't agree more, which is why my reply to your post bitching about the potential transfer fee was a long winded way of saying stop bitching! Did you not realise I was referring to you in my reply??

Gbear · 26-04-2017 05:36PM

Utopia Parkway wrote: »

I believe the stats showed he didn't give the ball away nearly as much as people think. He just tended to have these mad few minutes every now and then which coloured the perception of him but generally his passing from the back was pretty reliable.

Further to that, his passing was aggressive, which you would think would be a hugely positive attribute in an attacking side, albeit one that can on occasion backfire, like much of Sakho's play.

Piddly passes around the sides to the full backs = bad.
Thundered passes along the ground to players on the half-turn = good.

It's probably something that only Lucas is any good at in the side with everyone else who plays deeper either lacking the ambition, skill to pull them off or else on the other end, we're not creating the passing opportunities between the lines.

corwill · 26-04-2017 06:19PM

mormank wrote: »

I couldn't agree more, which is why my reply to your post bitching about the potential transfer fee was a long winded way of saying stop bitching! Did you not realise I was referring to you in my reply??

If you think that my above posts were 'bitching', then good luck to you.

Agent Coulson · 26-04-2017 06:25PM

Anyone see that article on Ronnie Whelan being the most underrated star of them all at Liverpool.

Great footballer and a true club legend but one hell of a terrible bitter pundit.

~Rebel~ · 26-04-2017 06:34PM

Boom_Bap wrote: »

My view is to let the accountants in the club look after the money. If a player that we want is deemed affordable, make the offer.

This is fine, if we're working with unlimited budgets. But as soon as budgets are imposed, you have to make decisions to compromise. It means another position has less money to strengthen. I know i'd much rather a 50m wingforward and 30m CB than the other way around.

Boom_Bap wrote: »

How many times do you see Matip making last ditch sliding tackles?
Now think about how many times Sahko does it.

The defenders who are not making them are the ones that are in the right position or are capable of moving with the pace of the opposition attackers.

The ones who are doing those tackles are the ones that are getting caught out positionally.

You're arguing that just because he did one thing really well, he didn't do another thing at all. He did both. One of his best attributes for us was stepping between the lines and intercepting passes.

When I think of Sakho, what I actually think of is him surging in front of an attacker who's about to receive the ball, getting to it before them, and playing a laser straight pass into an attacking midfielder.

J Mysterio · 26-04-2017 06:40PM

Mr.H wrote: »

Sakho is too unpredictable as a center back. Players targeted him because he often gave the ball away and left our keeper exposed. Sakho isn't reliable enough

LOL. Say that to Big Sam. He has revitilized that team from top to bottom with his commanding presence in defence. His organizational skills have also been commended. The Liverpool U23 manager spoke of his attitude in glowing terms.

J Mysterio · 26-04-2017 06:43PM

Boom_Bap wrote: »

His passing and stiking of a ball is equal on both sides. I recall a big thing about it here before when it came out that he was left or right footed when everyone thought the opposite.

Lovren isn't even in the same universe as Sakho as regards passing. Sakho zips nice hard low passes into the CB's feet. Lovren bounces it across the defence. When Lovren wants to bring it forward, he starts getting ideas about how he can skip around the opposition...

Boom_Bap wrote: »

How many times do you see Matip making last ditch sliding tackles?
Now think about how many times Sahko does it.

The defenders who are not making them are the ones that are in the right position or are capable of moving with the pace of the opposition attackers.

The ones who are doing those tackles are the ones that are getting caught out positionally.

I saw Matip do one or two of those slide tackles you mention in our last game. The one we lost to Palace. Sakho's slide tackling is second to none.

martyos121 · 26-04-2017 06:48PM

~Rebel~ wrote: »

This is fine, if we're working with unlimited budgets. But as soon as budgets are imposed, you have to make decisions to compromise. It means another position has less money to strengthen. I know i'd much rather a 50m wingforward and 30m CB than the other way around.

You're arguing that just because he did one thing really well, he didn't do another thing at all. He did both. One of his best attributes for us was stepping between the lines and intercepting passes.

When I think of Sakho, what I actually think of is him surging in front of an attacker who's about to receive the ball, getting to it before them, and playing a laser straight pass into an attacking midfielder.

I see your point, but considering we're pretty good for a wing forward and in desperate need of quality in the back line, I'd probably take the other way around at this point. £30m would still get you a player capable of competing with the likes of Mane and co. If it doesn't, we're doing it wrong. The big money must be invested in defence, in my opinion, and I'm including defensive minded midfielders in that (if they can attack too like Keita, all the better).

Aymeric Laporte has a release clause around £50-55m, and thats the type of transfer I'd like to see us go after. A top, young centre back with world class potential. Van Dijk would also do but this lad is younger and a better player IMO and effectively the same price. There's nothing Sakho can do that Laporte can't, like those laser straight passes into midfield you mentioned, for example. He's a great ball player.

LiamoSail · 26-04-2017 07:03PM

~Rebel~ wrote: »

This is fine, if we're working with unlimited budgets. But as soon as budgets are imposed, you have to make decisions to compromise. It means another position has less money to strengthen. I know i'd much rather a 50m wingforward and 30m CB than the other way around.

.

That might be true at a normal club, not at Liverpool though.

Liverpool are stupid with money and you can guarantee that notwithstanding the occasional exception, most funds will be wasted.

For that reason I'd rather any top target, irrespective of price, be signed. Granted it means less to spend on what's left, but given the clubs success in the market, I'd rather one definite and one potential signing over two average signings, as is usually the case

Liverpool FC Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours 2016/2017

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