Liverpool FC Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours 2016/2017

ricero · 26-04-2017 09:02AM

Osmosis Jones wrote: »

If the club thinks van Dijk is the best player for the team then I say go for it. We don't just spend money for the sake of it, last summer there was big money going around for defenders (Stones, Bailly, Luiz,) and we managed to pick Matip up for free. I just hope we buy whoever Klopp and his staff think will perform the best, if that's VvD and we can't get him for less than 50m then so be it.

Exactly my thoughts. Anyway its looking like sakho will be sold on and the club are looking for 30 million for him so Van Diijk for 50 is not that much when you factor in the sakho money.

In fairness to Klopp he always seems to identify his targets early and try sign them up so i expect a few deals to be announced in June. I just hope that some of these deals are not depending on if we qualify for champions league or not. Offer top players top wages and they will sign.

26-04-2017 09:04AM

murpho999 wrote: »

........ If a player is successful than the transfer fee becomes a non issue...............

Well Matip is a success but we still leak goals for fun so spending £50m on a CB seems lunacy to me

LiamoSail · 26-04-2017 09:11AM

corwill wrote: »

£50million+ on a CB with a decent season and a half of PL ball under his belt with Southampton, playing behind 2 DMs, though? Really?

He didn't only start playing football the day he rocked up at Southampton. If your basis of judging a player is dependent only upon his time in the PL, any player with even a bit of quality is going to cost huge money. That's the price of the primer league proven tag you value so highly

corwill wrote: »

Look, maybe that's the going rate these days, maybe I'm just suffering from future shock. As Nuka (I think) posted up thread, how about we put the cash into buying Southampton's scouts as this stage. ****ing blue in the face with not picking these guys up before every other club under the sun spots them.

Southampton didn't have to go to the moon to find him, he was playing literally just up the road. The dogs on the street could see his quality with only the lack of a "premiership proven" tag keeping his value reasonable. You don't need amazing scouts to find these players, just need to look outside England.

Granted VVD played in weaker leagues previously, but irrespective of the quality of the SPL, you could see he was special a mile away

corwill · 26-04-2017 09:15AM

LiamoSail wrote: »

That's the price of the primer league proven tag you value so highly

Given my above posts take issue with any 'PL-proven' element of the transfer fee being suggested for Van Djik, and I make the specific point that I'm frustrated at the club not identifying these players before other PL clubs do, I'm not sure why you're aiming this post at me.

LiamoSail · 26-04-2017 09:19AM

mormank wrote: »

Ya but Van Dijk played for Celtic before Southampton. If we started buying players from Celtic to go straight into our first team you would just have people bitching about buying players from that standard of league to go straight into our first team. Take Dembele for example who plays at Celtic, I would be happy enough if we signed him this summer but if we did you would get heaps of people on here complaining about that signing, hell plenty of people on here were bitching about us signing Mane ffs, however if Dembele signed for West ham and started banging them in you would have people bitching about why we didnt sign him. Point is, you can never keep everyone happy.

Forster, Wanyama and VVD cost Southampton about £35m in total. Arguably each is worth that alone now. That's the value put on the premiership proven criteria that Liverpool seem to favour.

Amazing really when you consider most of clubs most expensive signings suggest that the PL proven tag should be avoided

Carroll
Torres
Benteke
Suarez
Lovern
Keane
Firmino

Alonso77 · 26-04-2017 09:22AM

Baresi in his prime would struggle in an exposed defence such as ours. A defensive midfielder is a must this summer.

LiamoSail · 26-04-2017 09:23AM

corwill wrote: »

Given my above posts take issue with any 'PL-proven' element of the transfer fee being suggested for Van Djik, and I make the specific point that I'm frustrated at the club not identifying these players before other PL clubs do, I'm not sure why you're aiming this post at me.

I was addressing the point you made about VVD having only played a season and a half in the PL. In isolation it looked as if you were ignoring his career up to that point, though perhaps having not read the thread I'm missing the context

LiamoSail · 26-04-2017 09:25AM

Alonso77 wrote: »

Baresi in his prime would struggle in an exposed defence such as ours. A defensive midfielder is a must this summer.

Baresi in his prime never featured on Match of the Day, so not much chance of him coming to Liverpool's attention

Buford T. Justice XIX · 26-04-2017 09:25AM

NukaCola wrote: »

Van Dijk would be a very good signing. Its a lot of money though definitely and without a system change it would be a waste of money. Bring him in and actually have a DM in front etc and it could go a long way to sorting out a lot of issues.

Having a dedicated DM like Kante isn't the way Klopp sets up though.

Someone like Keita, a ball playing CM with a bit more defensive capabilities than average, will be where we will end up buying.

murpho999 · 26-04-2017 09:37AM

Augeo wrote: »

Well Matip is a success but we still leak goals for fun so spending £50m on a CB seems lunacy to me

Well I think Matip is quality and he was free, so if we got van Dijk for £50m then two class centre backs for £50m would look cheap.

Matip is not the problem in defence it's his Lovren sidekick beside him who needs to be replaced.

corwill · 26-04-2017 09:44AM

LiamoSail wrote: »

I was addressing the point you made about VVD having only played a season and a half in the PL. In isolation it looked as if you were ignoring his career up to that point, though perhaps having not read the thread I'm missing the context

Fair enough, what I had in mind was the last time we bought a CB from Southampton on the back of a good season in the PL, having paid no regard to his prior comic stylings for Lyon over a longer period. It just seems like the focus for identifying transfer targets is terribly narrow.

I've liked what I've seen if Van Djik, but I'll continue to be disappointed with our scouting if the club is unaware of someone else at his level outside the PL bubble for half the price or less.

LiamoSail · 26-04-2017 09:57AM

corwill wrote: »

Fair enough, what I had in mind was the last time we bought a CB from Southampton on the back of a good season in the PL, having paid no regard to his prior comic stylings for Lyon over a longer period. It just seems like the focus for identifying transfer targets is terribly narrow.

I've liked what I've seen if Van Djik, but I'll continue to be disappointed with our scouting if the club is unaware of someone else at his level outside the PL bubble for half the price or less.

They should be but they won't. This is Liverpool, so you'd be mad to expect quality signings at a decent price.

When Liverpool sign a player, I really don't care what the price is, once he's good enough. I'd be happy with VVD even if he cost €100m.. I know he's not worth €100m, but he'd improve the team significantly and that isn't always the case with LFC signings. Once the team is doing well I'm happy, couldn't give two ****s about how much it costs

sideswipe · 26-04-2017 10:04AM

Not sure about 50 mill on a CB but I just wish we had smashed up the bank last summer for Kante- I recon we'd be in with a shout of the title right now if we did.

Knex* · 26-04-2017 10:08AM

The big question mark for me is that Van Dijk plays with two dedicated defensive midfielders, more often than not. I think it was Corwill who mentioned it yesterday, and its a great point.

Swap Lovren back into that team, and he probably looks as good as he did before he joined us, although back then he had Wanyama who is an absolute force.

Outside of that, Southampton just don't get the same level of exposure, scrutiny and pressure that Liverpool are afforded. You couple that with our exposed manner of defending, and its certainly tough for center backs to come in and look impressive.

Positives for Van Dijk is that he's a physical specimen, which would certainly give our backline a boost. Great in the air, very strong, and he's fairly fast as well. He's also good on the ball. That probably ticks all the boxes for you'd want in a center back at the club with the way we play.

Still, I think there is a legitimate worry that we sign him for 50m and still, more or less, have the same defensive issues next year.

I actually remember watching him play in a game for the Netherlands about 18 months ago, and he was absolutely brutal. I was literally laughing at him. And he's had a few games for them when he hasn't quite looked like he did in that 1-1 draw against us a few months back, to say the least.

For me, this kind of compounds the fact that the system employed, and the players in front of him, are probably of a higher importance than just throwing insane money at Van Dijk and hoping that he can suddenly fix all our woes. Essentially, I'd take Spurs signing Wanyama for 15m, or whatever it was, than us taking Van Dijk at 50m. And ideally, we should be doing both.

We've shown a lack of ambition in the player recruitment department for a bit too long now. There seems to be a fear of having good players on the bench. Sign a first teamer, immediately sell one who may not work out type mentality. We should have the revenue streams and financial input from FSG to move on from this a bit now.

BullBlackNova · 26-04-2017 10:27AM

Knex. wrote: »

The big question mark for me is that Van Dijk plays with two dedicated defensive midfielders, more often than not. I think it was Corwill who mentioned it yesterday, and its a great point.

Swap Lovren back into that team, and he probably looks as good as he did before he joined us, although back then he had Wanyama who is an absolute force.

Positives for Van Dijk is that he's a physical specimen, which would certainly give our backline a boost. Great in the air, very strong, and he's fairly fast as well. He's also good on the ball. That probably ticks all the boxes for you'd want in a center back at the club with the way we play.

Still, I think there is a legitimate worry that we sign him for 50m and still, more or less, have the same defensive issues next year.

For me, this kind of compounds the fact that the system employed, and the players in front of him, are probably of a higher importance than just throwing insane money at Van Dijk and hoping that he can suddenly fix all our woes. Essentially, I'd take Spurs signing Wanyama for 15m, or whatever it was, than us taking Van Dijk at 50m. And ideally, we should be doing both.

We've shown a lack of ambition in the player recruitment department for a bit too long now. There seems to be a fear of having good players on the bench. Sign a first teamer, immediately sell one who may not work out type mentality. We should have the revenue streams and financial input from FSG to move on from this a bit now.

This nails my thoughts on it really.

VVD may turn out to be a good signing for whoever he joins but I don't think fixing our defensive woes is as simple as taking him from Southampton and dropping him into our defence.

Their whole team is set up to be strong defensively and we have seen this time and time again - every one of Lovren, Fonte, Clyne and Shaw has looked worse defensively since leaving Southampton because they don't have the same protection, organisation, etc.

Fixing our issues is not as simple as signing the right player. It probably involves several players in several positions, including midfield, a tweak in coaching and a change in our tactical setup.

Anyway, I'll genuinely be stunned if we sign him. I can see us making the first move and being outbid by Chelsea and City, or just going elsewhere.

I'll believe all this talk of record-breaking transfer spends when I see it.

brevity · 26-04-2017 10:36AM

I can't really get my head around this - why he is so expensive?

NukaCola · 26-04-2017 10:36AM

A defence minded CM isn't going to stop Lovren from making stupid decisions in play or make us defend set pieces better though which have been big issues for us. Whatever the price for CB's we need a couple of good ones. Klavan and Lovren are fine back ups but if we are to be successful their minutes have to be restricted IMO.

NukaCola · 26-04-2017 10:37AM

brevity wrote: »

I can't really get my head around this - why he is so expensive?

We want him and Southampton dont want to sell. Supply and demand I guess.

Boom_Bap · 26-04-2017 10:43AM

My view is to let the accountants in the club look after the money. If a player that we want is deemed affordable, make the offer.

VVD was a player that clubs were sniffing around but unwilling to take a gamble on. Celtic took that gamble and it payed off for them.
Southampton took the same gamble by bringing him to the EPL, it paid off as his abilities transferred very well to the EPL and he has improved as a player as well.

There are many other players that take this same route, Gini is one that springs to mind and that worked out well for us.

As far as VVD goes, do I see him as an upgrade on Lovren in all areas, yes I do.
More commanding in presence and aerial ability.
More physical.
More composed.
Better tackler.
Better reading of the line.
Plays the ball forward more instead of accross the back four.

The only 2 things that Lovren has is that he is excellent with both feet and can play left and right side of the central pairing.

brevity · 26-04-2017 10:45AM

NukaCola wrote: »

We want him and Southampton dont want to sell. Supply and demand I guess.

I suppose. Seems like a crazy amount of money though for a player that probably won't fit our style of play - unless Klopp buys a DM.

Boom_Bap · 26-04-2017 10:47AM

brevity wrote: »

I suppose. Seems like a crazy amount of money though for a player that probably won't fit our style of play - unless Klopp buys a DM.

If you have 2 central defenders that can play a high line, this reduces the need for a pure DM.
So with VVD and Matip, we would have that.
I think that is why he doesn't buy in to Sahko as being a starter for us.

54and56 · 26-04-2017 10:49AM

brevity wrote: »

I can't really get my head around this - why he is so expensive?

Supply and demand. If others are prepared to pay £40m/£45m for him and offer same/better wages and same/better likelihood of silverware we have to outbid them if we want him. At some point the price and wages etc required to sign VVD will get to a point where our 2nd preference CB target makes more sense and we drop the VVD interest. It's the nature of wheeling and dealing.

Crash Bang Wall · 26-04-2017 10:54AM

BullBlackNova wrote: »

This nails my thoughts on it really.

VVD may turn out to be a good signing for whoever he joins but I don't think fixing our defensive woes is as simple as taking him from Southampton and dropping him into our defence.

Their whole team is set up to be strong defensively and we have seen this time and time again - every one of Lovren, Fonte, Clyne and Shaw has looked worse defensively since leaving Southampton because they don't have the same protection, organisation, etc.

Fixing our issues is not as simple as signing the right player. It probably involves several players in several positions, including midfield, a tweak in coaching and a change in our tactical setup.

Anyway, I'll genuinely be stunned if we sign him. I can see us making the first move and being outbid by Chelsea and City, or just going elsewhere.

I'll believe all this talk of record-breaking transfer spends when I see it.

Echo reports we will break our transfer record to sign VVD

A few hours later there is news of our new home kit

Coincidence????

SteM · 26-04-2017 11:47AM

sideswipe wrote: »

I just wish we had smashed up the bank last summer for Kante- I recon we'd be in with a shout of the title right now if we did.

Says every fan of every team in the top 5 not called Chelsea.

Knex* · 26-04-2017 11:53AM

BullBlackNova wrote: »

I'll believe all this talk of record-breaking transfer spends when I see it.

Yeah, my scepticism with regards to the club's ability in actually bringing in top tier targets is quite high.

That said, another summer with additions of the standard and impact of Mane, Matip and Wijnaldum and we'd be in pretty good shape.

26-04-2017 12:12PM

Crash Bang Wall wrote: »

Echo reports we will break our transfer record to sign VVD

A few hours later there is news of our new home kit

Coincidence????

You'd expect them to be able to come up with better than VVD though.....

slingerz · 26-04-2017 12:17PM

i think Klopp has to become more pragmatic tbh its more than just the right players. The approach favoured by winning teams recently has been defensively solid with a decent attack. Liverpool have gone from an amazing attack and a terrible defence to a decent attack and a terrible defence. The presence of a Kante in midfield and a strong back 5 would make all the difference. It doesnt appear that Klopp prioritises those though

internelligent · 26-04-2017 12:28PM

The last 3 home league games I've gone to.
Liverpool vs Palace 1-2
Liverpool vs Swansea 2-3
Liverpool vs Palace 1-2

The only one we lost at Anfield in between was Swansea again 1-3.

Can't but help feel partially responsible and for that I apologise.
At the same time I feel like I'm getting seriously shafted here! No more trips for me.

brevity · 26-04-2017 12:48PM

Nice piece on Ronnie Whelan:

http://thesefootballtimes.co/2017/04/26/how-ronnie-whelan-became-the-most-underrated-liverpool-star-of-all/

I'd wager a few around here are here because of him

corwill · 26-04-2017 12:48PM

internelligent wrote: »

The last 3 home league games I've gone to.
Liverpool vs Palace 1-2
Liverpool vs Swansea 2-3
Liverpool vs Palace 1-2

The only one we lost at Anfield in between was Swansea again 1-3.

Can't but help feel partially responsible and for that I apologise.
At the same time I feel like I'm getting seriously shafted here! No more trips for me.

Mods, can internelligent be blocked from starting match threads, please? And maybe some sort of virtual neck-bell?

Liverpool FC Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours 2016/2017

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