How do people survive on wages close to minimum wage?

23-04-2017 07:58PM

pilly wrote: »

As opposed to spending their days posting on boards?

It's Sunday afternoon/evening

steddyeddy · 23-04-2017 08:37PM

Lacey Helpful Sifter wrote: »

It's Sunday afternoon/evening

And how much milk have you drank?

ash23 · 23-04-2017 08:43PM

About ten years ago I was a single parent on not much more than minimum wage. I got FIS (thankfully) and had a medical card.
I rented privately with no assistance as I was over the threshold and was also not eligible for social housing.
So I was paying 750 pm rent. And 400pm childcare, increased to 600pm in summer and holidays.
In total I was coming out with about 2110 pm and over half of that went on childcare and rent.
So I had about 250 a week for all my bills and to support myself and my child.
Most weeks we ticked along ok. But there were bad weeks. Summer was tough because of the bigger crèche bill. Weeks where a school bill or car expense or cold winter threw everything because there was just no wiggle room. No extra 100 available when the car breaks down or the temps drop to -5 for weeks and your oil runs out. Those two bad winters really were very tough.
At times I thought about giving up work. Basically I was working full time for not much more than I'd have been getting on one parent family payment.

I stuck it out and things are now much better. I'm earning about 15k more per year now. Plus I'm in assisted housing so the rent is half what I had been paying.kiddo is grown so no childcare.

I have breathing space and savings. We're not wealthy but I can pay my bills in advance and know the money is there for direct debits.
I don't have spa breaks or foreign holidays. But I have peace of mind and honestly I think that was, for me, what was hardest about working for so much less.....The constant worry about the next bill, the next oil fill etc.
I still manage my finances and don't spend lavishly but that stress is gone and that to me is all I need.

Glenster · 23-04-2017 09:03PM

4ensic15 wrote: »

It could be worse. Some parents don't save, and then there is no college even if the kids want it.

Mad talk. My parents didn't give me a penny towards college. And I wasn't eligible for a grant. And I didn't live at home before you all start braying about it.

Part time jobs. Problem solved.

supporting kids through college only result in weak kids and rinsed parents/state.

Geuze · 23-04-2017 10:48PM

Yourself isit wrote: »

I might be wrong but I think that's the average full time industrial wage.

The average is not a useful figure anyway. Full time when less so. One industry even less so.

Edit: the cso is all jobs not industrial. Still the mean though.

Yes, the median would be good to have as well, but the CSO don't publish median wages.

Here are mean earnings from 2015
http://www.cso.ie/en/releasesandpublications/er/elca/earningsandlabourcostsannualdata2015/

All workers = 36,519
FT workers = 45,075
PT workers = 16,332

All workers average per hour = 21.90

Here is Eurostat data for 2014:

http://ec.europa.eu/eurostat/statistics-explained/index.php/Earnings_statistics

Data refer to workers in firms of 10+ staff.

Median hourly earnings = 20.20 [2nd highest in EU]
Median hourly earnings, adjusted for price level in Irl = 18.40 PPS

Eurostat definition of low wages = 2/3 or less of the median

Low-wage threshold = 13.40 ph
Percentage of low-wage earners = 21.6% [averages are 16-17%]

Geuze · 23-04-2017 10:53PM

Eurostat data on the distribution of earnings, 2014

D10 Lowest decile = 10.60 ph, so 10% of workers earn less that this

D90 top decile = 43.60 ph, so 10% of workers earn more than this

Graces7 · 24-04-2017 04:11AM

Glenster wrote: »

Mad talk. My parents didn't give me a penny towards college. And I wasn't eligible for a grant. And I didn't live at home before you all start braying about it.

Part time jobs. Problem solved.

supporting kids through college only result in weak kids and rinsed parents/state.

Thinking back; we were in the UK grant supported. It was means tested. Which is fair enough, It was enough if careful to live on. Not sure if many did work part time during term but during the holidays yes. The Christmas Post was one such.

But then young folk did not go to university or college in the numbers they do here now. Of my 6th form year, I think maybe 5 of us went to University and a very few more to teacher training college .

zl1whqvjs75cdy · 24-04-2017 06:14AM

Glenster wrote: »

Mad talk. My parents didn't give me a penny towards college. And I wasn't eligible for a grant. And I didn't live at home before you all start braying about it.

Part time jobs. Problem solved.

supporting kids through college only result in weak kids and rinsed parents/state.

Out of interest, how much were the fees and the rent when you went to college?

Lu Tze · 24-04-2017 06:39AM

Glenster wrote: »

Mad talk. My parents didn't give me a penny towards college. And I wasn't eligible for a grant. And I didn't live at home before you all start braying about it.

Part time jobs. Problem solved.

supporting kids through college only result in weak kids and rinsed parents/state.

I also worked through college, but that was a while back. How easy do you think it would be to get a part time job if one was in college in the last ten years?

I feel sorry for my nephew, just coming into leaving cert now but unable to get part time or summer work at all. Getting my first paid job at 14/15 had a huge impact on me, and had a load of money saved by the time I went to college (I couldn't spend that amount if I tried, €3 per hour!)

jamesthepeach · 24-04-2017 06:49AM

About 20 years ago myself and my other half ended up with a job each for the first time.
We had only ever managed to have one job between us before that.

So we made the decision to live on one wage and save the second wage. We had no difference in lifestyle because we were used to it.

In 2007 she lost her job and couldn't get one for 3 years. We did the notice at all because all that was effected was savings.

Since she got her next job we do the same again. Save all of one wage and live on the other.

I'm 100% sure that if we had changed our lifestyle to use both wages we would have been hurting a hell of a lot more and would probably think we were on the breadline now.

But as it is we live a very happy life and go might decide on a Monday that we are taking the following Monday off and going somewhere nice for the weekend in Europe.

We would not have e been able to do that on even two wages had we not made that decision to save the second wage back then.

Now as we get older that second wage can be dipped into whenever we feel like it for big luxuries.

Living proof that the more you earn the more your lifestyle spend is. If you don't let lifestyle inflation run away with you at the start, like a lot of friends i know did, you will think you have the life of Reilly on half what someone else is scraping by on.

That's my long winded way of saying .....
It's all relative.

Graces7 · 24-04-2017 06:59AM

pilly wrote: »

I actually think it's laughable how so many people get wound up by someone stating how it's possible to live on very little and actually turn to personal attacks over it.

Disgusting behaviour.

There has been a polar shift. In my youth, managing on little was a virtue. Came from wartime and postwar rationing. And we all grew food.

Ways I still adhere to . From choice. Our mottos were waste not want not.. make do and mend. Values that will stand you well in hard times.

One eyed Jack · 24-04-2017 07:03AM

Glenster wrote: »

Mad talk. My parents didn't give me a penny towards college. And I wasn't eligible for a grant. And I didn't live at home before you all start braying about it.

Part time jobs. Problem solved.

supporting kids through college only result in weak kids and rinsed parents/state.

I agree with the first part of your post, in that part time jobs definitely are the answer, but that's a work ethic IMO that has to be bred into children, when they are children. It's too late by the time they're going to college if it hasn't been.

The bit in bold though, I can't agree with at all. I would still do anything to support a young person and give them every opportunity I could to make a good life for themselves, because I too did the whole college + jobs thing and quite frankly it was shyte trying to burn the candle at both ends. I wouldn't wish it on anyone if I could help it.

Lu Tze wrote: »

I also worked through college, but that was a while back. How easy do you think it would be to get a part time job if one was in college in the last ten years?

I feel sorry for my nephew, just coming into leaving cert now but unable to get part time or summer work at all. Getting my first paid job at 14/15 had a huge impact on me, and had a load of money saved by the time I went to college (I couldn't spend that amount if I tried, €3 per hour!)

I can't agree with this either. There are plenty of employment opportunities for young people to earn an income to support themselves while in third level education. I know plenty of young people who do, and they value their independence. My own child would be the same, but at the same time I'm happier knowing that the support is there if he wants or needs it.

24-04-2017 07:44AM

Glenster wrote: »

Mad talk. My parents didn't give me a penny towards college. And I wasn't eligible for a grant. And I didn't live at home before you all start braying about it.

Part time jobs. Problem solved.

supporting kids through college only result in weak kids and rinsed parents/state.

No it doesn't.

ytpe2r5bxkn0c1 · 24-04-2017 07:57AM

Graces7 wrote: »

There has been a polar shift. In my youth, managing on little was a virtue. Came from wartime and postwar rationing. And we all grew food.

Ways I still adhere to . From choice. Our mottos were waste not want not.. make do and mend. Values that will stand you well in hard times.

Trying hard to keep to the Minimum wage topic but...managing on little is still a virtue. It came from poverty and predates the war in this country.

Lu Tze · 24-04-2017 08:07AM

One eyed Jack wrote: »

I agree with the first part of your post, in that part time jobs definitely are the answer, but that's a work ethic IMO that has to be bred into children, when they are children. It's too late by the time they're going to college if it hasn't been.

The bit in bold though, I can't agree with at all. I would still do anything to support a young person and give them every opportunity I could to make a good life for themselves, because I too did the whole college + jobs thing and quite frankly it was shyte trying to burn the candle at both ends. I wouldn't wish it on anyone if I could help it.

I can't agree with this either. There are plenty of employment opportunities for young people to earn an income to support themselves while in third level education. I know plenty of young people who do, and they value their independence. My own child would be the same, but at the same time I'm happier knowing that the support is there if he wants or needs it.

How much opportunity do you think there was for students/teenagers when the unemployment rate was 15%? That's what I'm referring to, in the last 10 years. Some will be lucky, but the majority likely didn't get part-time or summer work, unless they lived in areas with large seasonal industries like tourism.

neonsofa · 24-04-2017 08:14AM

Lu Tze wrote: »

How much opportunity do you think there was for students/teenagers when the unemployment rate was 15%? That's what I'm referring to, in the last 10 years. Some will be lucky, but the majority likely didn't get part-time or summer work, unless they lived in areas with large seasonal industries like tourism.

Exactly, especially during the recession when employers had their pick of anybody, when pretty much all vacancies stated "over 5 years experience/ degree level of education" for jobs that did not even require a degree, or "must be eligible for jobbridge". Employers didn't want to choose an inexperienced young fella who could only do certain shifts that fit in with their class schedule when they could have the best of the best for the exact same price because people took what they were offered.

Winterlong · 24-04-2017 08:15AM

Edith Tart Thundercloud wrote: »

Trying hard to keep to the Minimum wage topic but...managing on little is still a virtue. It came from poverty and predates the war in this country.

There was a lot less expectation back then that the parents or state would house, clothe and feed you ad infinitum. And that was a good thing.

qo2cj1dsne8y4k · 24-04-2017 08:40AM

Winterlong wrote: »

There was a lot less expectation back then that the parents or state would house, clothe and feed you ad infinitum. And that was a good thing.

That's the thing. There's this horrible attitude where some people feel they're owed a living, that there's grants and allowances available for everything. People who've never contributed to the pot but are first out there to reap everybody else's tax contributions.

I think that's wrong. I would love to see the government help the people on min wage more. Encourage people to work. Reward people who contribute/have contributed. You shouldn't be able to reap the benefits of everyone else's taxes when the people who've paid them are entitled to nothing but even more cuts

paulmurphyvec · 24-04-2017 08:46AM

they survive by cutting their cloth to suit their measure ie they budget. Everyone in college assumes they walk out with a degree straight into a high paying job, then the real world comes up and smacks them back. you budget for whatever income you have that's how they survive

Glenster · 24-04-2017 08:58AM

One eyed Jack wrote: »

I agree with the first part of your post, in that part time jobs definitely are the answer, but that's a work ethic IMO that has to be bred into children, when they are children. It's too late by the time they're going to college if it hasn't been.

The bit in bold though, I can't agree with at all. I would still do anything to support a young person and give them every opportunity I could to make a good life for themselves, because I too did the whole college + jobs thing and quite frankly it was shyte trying to burn the candle at both ends. I wouldn't wish it on anyone if I could help it.

As would I. But I don't think someone living off the bank of mammy and daddy when in college is realising his/her potential.

And I think that they're less equipped to deal with the real world (which, I think we can all agree, is a balls) once they graduate.

And finally, it was tough working and studying, but I was 18 and healthy and had no dependents and was well able for it. Having a part time job and moaning about it is part of the college experience.
Obviously if you're circumstances are different you'll have different needs. I'm just talking about those people in my specific situation.

pilly · 24-04-2017 09:12AM

People still trying to squeeze the "yeah but the ones on social welfare are much better off" into this thread I see.

24-04-2017 09:14AM

pilly wrote: »

People still trying to squeeze the "yeah but the ones on social welfare are much better off" into this thread I see.

With very clear and plausible reasons why it can be true in some situations.

Pac1Man · 24-04-2017 09:19AM

Glenster wrote: »

As would I. But I don't think someone living off the bank of mammy and daddy when in college is realising his/her potential.

And I think that they're less equipped to deal with the real world (which, I think we can all agree, is a balls) once they graduate.

Nobody should live their life by some predetermined blueprint. If you have a blueprint for college do you also have one for life after college and what boxes you should be ticking at certain milestones?

Let me guess, the route you are highlighting is the exact route you took? Isn't that convenient.

This is just an example of looking down your nose and justifying the path that you took or were forced to take as the best path there is. It's a very pedestrian way of putting yourself on a pedestal.

One eyed Jack · 24-04-2017 09:21AM

Glenster wrote: »

As would I. But I don't think someone living off the bank of mammy and daddy when in college is realising his/her potential.

And I think that they're less equipped to deal with the real world (which, I think we can all agree, is a balls) once they graduate.

And finally, it was tough working and studying, but I was 18 and healthy and had no dependents and was well able for it. Having a part time job and moaning about it is part of the college experience.
Obviously if you're circumstances are different you'll have different needs. I'm just talking about those people in my specific situation.

I completely get where you're coming from and all, but honestly, their reality is just as much real world as anyone elses, and if their parents want to support them, I wouldn't judge them for that or suggest they're living off the bank of mammy and daddy (or sometimes someone unrelated who just wants to see them do well for themselves, and financing their education being one less thing for them to worry about).

Sure, having a part-time job and moaning about it (and there are many who just get on with it and don't moan), is part and parcel of college life for some, and more power to them, but the experience isn't universal, just like the experience of being unable to find a part-time job isn't universal. I don't think broad strokes really can be applied like that.

To answer the OPs question as to how do people survive on minimum wage, welfare, etc - that's about all they do, is survive on it. Some people are happy to do just that, some people want to better themselves, but they lack the opportunities or the tools to make opportunities for themselves, and some people do indeed see being on welfare as a lifestyle choice. It shouldn't be IMO, for anyone - nobody should be given that "opportunity".

paulmurphyvec · 24-04-2017 09:22AM

unfortunately not everyone has the option to go to college

_Brian · 24-04-2017 09:22AM

Zascar wrote: »

I wonder that myself. ?400 a week, ?1600 a month, less tax - how do you pay rent, bills, food... and the rest...

Most get by on a combination of FIS and child allowance.

Graces7 · 24-04-2017 09:26AM

Lacey Helpful Sifter wrote: »

With very clear and plausible reasons why it can be true in some situations.

But you have not convinced anyone here. And many also seem not to understand what a welfare state is about. Need not virtue.

Graces7 · 24-04-2017 09:27AM

pilly wrote: »

People still trying to squeeze the "yeah but the ones on social welfare are much better off" into this thread I see.

more than a hint of begrudgery creeping in too.

pilly · 24-04-2017 09:29AM

Graces7 wrote: »

more than a hint of begrudgery creeping in too.

Just amazes me how almost every single thread somehow ends up in:

"yeah but free houses"
"yeah but my tax money"
"yeah but scroungers"

What the fcuk has any of that to do with the initial OP?

Nothing. Some people just love to moan and bitch, have a certain agenda and can not let it go regardless of the subject.

24-04-2017 09:32AM

Graces7 wrote: »

But you have not convinced anyone here. And many also seem not to understand what a welfare state is about. Need not virtue.

I don't need to convince most people as they simply know its true, I'll never convince some are they are too blinded by bias.

To use the example quoted earlier. The difference between a single man on the dole + rent allowance and a single man on minimum wage is not much much more than 100 euro a week. But the person working has to actually work along with all the costs of working (transport, clothes, food etc). It also doesn't take into account any cash in hand work the person on the dole could be doing.

The working person also has to live in some sort of proximity to their job which could mean much higher rent than someone on the dole who can pretty much live anywhere.

How do people survive on wages close to minimum wage?

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