Drinking in pregnancy...

21-04-2017 08:13PM

murpho999 wrote: »

I fail to see how being successful does not mean you can be ignorant about alcohol and pregnancy.

Well this article from the Harvard Medical School website goes through the evidence (or lack of evidence of harm) and calls your position a bit "extreme".

http://www.health.harvard.edu/blog/study-no-connection-between-drinking-alcohol-early-in-pregnancy-and-birth-problems-201309106667

you with them at the time of their pregnancies when they sought medical advice?

Um, no... what are you saying, that my mother and sister lied to us about the advices they got from their doctors.

Sounds like got a new epithet for our list. These women are all:

(i) stupid
(ii) selfish
(iii) ignorant
(iv) LIARS!!!!!

I feel like we need to throw in the 'c' word for completion. what do you think?

s4uv3 · 21-04-2017 08:56PM

Elias Lazy Skillet wrote: »

Newer than the expert giving a talk to the IMO this morning? Boy, things change quickly.

Nope, I stand corrected

And there's me thinking something I read a few weeks back was up to date :rolleyes:

murpho999 · 21-04-2017 09:00PM

A Tyrant Named Miltiades! wrote: »

Well this article from the Harvard Medical School website goes through the evidence (or lack of evidence of harm) and calls your position a bit "extreme".

http://www.health.harvard.edu/blog/study-no-connection-between-drinking-alcohol-early-in-pregnancy-and-birth-problems-201309106667

Um, no... what are you saying, that my mother and sister lied to us about the advices they got from their doctors.

Sounds like got a new epithet for our list. These women are all:

(i) stupid
(ii) selfish
(iii) ignorant
(iv) LIARS!!!!!

I feel like we need to throw in the 'c' word for completion. what do you think?

Reading the article you posted, it's mainly an opinion piece, mostly focussed on the first trimester.

They are also inconclusive and does not really rely upon empirical evidence.

Also, they are talking more about moderate alcohol meaning no more than one alcoholic drink per day.

Do you really think with Irish attitudes to drink that expectant Irish mothers stick to this?

You seem very sensitive about your mother and sister, do you not think it's possible that an Irish doctor might have given bad advice about this in the past?

Either way, I don't think how anybody would really need advice on this and it's completely logical that alcohol will impact on a baby's development.

ceadaoin. · 21-04-2017 09:08PM

murpho999 wrote: »

Also, they are talking more about moderate alcohol meaning no more than one alcoholic drink per day.

Do you really think with Irish attitudes to drink that expectant Irish mothers stick to this?

.

Yes, we can't expect silly women to make an informed decision about their alcohol consumption can we, let alone understand the meaning of the word "moderate"

My daughter is 5 and The advice when I was pregnant from the NHS was 1-2 drinks once or twice a week. When I was in early labour I was told by the midwife to relax in the bath with a glass of wine. Do you think that the NHS was putting thousands of babies at risk for FAS for years with that advice?

There is plenty of evidence that moderate drinking does not cause harm. Being obese or even travelling in a car are more dangerous for pregnant women and their babies. Is anyone suggesting that mothers who do those things are also selfish?

La.de.da · 21-04-2017 09:14PM

Drinking whilst pregnant is wrong. It's 9-10 months out of your life. If your lucky enough to want and be able to have a child, it should be given the best start possible from conception.

Is it worth it to potentially damage your unborn child? I don't think so.

murpho999 · 21-04-2017 09:16PM

ceadaoin. wrote: »

Yes, we can't expect silly women to make an informed decision about their alcohol consumption can we, let alone understand the meaning of the word "moderate"

My daughter is 5 and The advice when I was pregnant from the NHS was 1-2 drinks once or twice a week. When I was in early labour I was told by the midwife to relax in the bath with a glass of wine. Do you think that the NHS was putting thousands of babies at risk for FAS for years with that advice?

There is plenty of evidence that moderate drinking does not cause harm. Being obese or even travelling in a car are more dangerous for pregnant women and their babies. Is anyone suggesting that mothers who do those things are also selfish?

Well what you are saying is not what is advised by the NHS now, as linked earlier.
Here it is again.

bnt · 21-04-2017 09:22PM

I knew a pregnant lady who would have the occasional pint of normal beer in her third trimester of pregnancy, and there was little danger involved at that stage. Ditto for a glass of wine during early labour: not going to do any harm. But that kind of specific moderation is clearly beyond some, so if in doubt I support the "don't drink at all" advice.

21-04-2017 10:23PM

If people know the dangers and still choose to drink they are selfish and incompotent. You'll survive without a beer or wine for a while.

21-04-2017 11:31PM

Is it just me or was the OP more shocked at the amount of women that admit to drinking during pregnancy/number of babies with with foetal alcohol syndrome..?

Surely everyone knows that drinking alcohol is bad during pregnancy.

When my Mother was pregnant with me she didn't have a sip of alcohol throughout the pregnancy, until she was 2 weeks past her due date. She was in the pub with my Dad and thought "sure no damage could be done now, what harm?". She drank 2 pints and went into labour.. She says she was mortified as she reckoned the midwives could smell the drink off her and were thinking she was an "alco". :pac:

Tea-a-Maria · 21-04-2017 11:35PM

Lia_lia wrote: »

Is it just me or was the OP more shocked at the amount of women that admit to drinking during pregnancy/number of babies with with foetal alcohol syndrome..?

Surely everyone knows that drinking alcohol is bad during pregnancy.

When my Mother was pregnant with me she didn't have a sip of alcohol throughout the pregnancy, until she was 2 weeks past her due date. She was in the pub with my Dad and thought "sure no damage could be done now, what harm?". She drank 2 pints and went into labour.. She says she was mortified as she reckoned the midwives could smell the drink off her and were thinking she was an "alco". :pac:

I'd wager that a lot of the women who answered yes to that question were ones who were drinking early on in the pregnancy before they realised they were pregnant. Around half of pregnancies in Ireland are unplanned after all.

bee06 · 21-04-2017 11:37PM

It would be interesting if the article said what percentage knew they were pregnant when they had that drink. I know plenty of women who got pregnant unexpectedly who were drinking away because they didn't know.

I, on the other hand, gave up drinking when I was trying to get pregnant. A year later with nothing happening I had a glass of wine on my birthday. lol and behold that was the month I got pregnant.

21-04-2017 11:44PM

Tea-a-Maria wrote: »

I'd wager that a lot of the women who answered yes to that question were ones who were drinking early on in the pregnancy before they realised they were pregnant. Around half of pregnancies in Ireland are unplanned after all.

Yes, this is what I was thinking too. Very few women I know (especially younger women) actually planned their pregnancies. I know a girl who didn't know she was pregnancy until she went into labour! She drank through the whole pregnancy. Baby was grand.

I personally wouldn't drink when pregnant. Wouldn't drink that much anyway.

DEFTLEFTHAND · 22-04-2017 06:31AM

An undersized newborn in my locality is referred to as a, 'Woodbine Baby'.

meeeeh · 22-04-2017 07:54AM

Why are people with pretty dysfunctional attitude to drinking also the biggest zealots about when no to drink?

Cloudio9 · 22-04-2017 08:29AM

I guess there are lots of very young people on this thread based on the number of posts with opinions like this and others saying we've "always" known it's bad.

Ten years ago I was in a Dublin maternity hospital with my wife for an appointment and the doctor said having an occasional drink like a glass of wine is fine.

I'm sure many of the women surveyed were following their doctors advice that it was ok to have a drink but now are being shamed in the media.
Jennifer O'Connell wrote about being made to feel like a bad mother recently in the Irish Times as this story was doing the rounds a month or two ago.

By 2010 for our second in the hospital they were saying the latest advice is we don't know a safe alcohol limit so can't tell you it's ok to have a drink.

mrsmags16 · 22-04-2017 08:34AM

Cloudio9 wrote: »

Ten years ago I was in a Dublin maternity hospital with my wife for an appointment and the doctor said having an occasional drink like a glass of wine is fine.

It is fine. There is no evidence whatsoever that this causes any harm to the fetus. The easiest advice to tell the public however is to avoid all alcohol in pregnancy.
I'm a pregnant doctor and I have maybe 2 half glasses of wine a week. I researched it myself with evidence-based sources.

Graces7 · 22-04-2017 06:11PM

Lia_lia wrote: »

Is it just me or was the OP more shocked at the amount of women that admit to drinking during pregnancy/number of babies with with foetal alcohol syndrome..?

Surely everyone knows that drinking alcohol is bad during pregnancy.

When my Mother was pregnant with me she didn't have a sip of alcohol throughout the pregnancy, until she was 2 weeks past her due date. She was in the pub with my Dad and thought "sure no damage could be done now, what harm?". She drank 2 pints and went into labour.. She says she was mortified as she reckoned the midwives could smell the drink off her and were thinking she was an "alco". :pac:

Just in and reading this

Of course I knew re Foetal Alcohol Syndrome and its effects .

My family in Canada face this disability every day as many affected are homeless etc so are fed etc on the streets..

Yes it is the sheer numbers and also that this is injury inflicted by the mother that is totally and utterly avoidable. As if the unborn did not face enough troubles and dangers . And as if rearing children was not hard enough without serious disability of this kind. It will affect the entire family

So yes it is irresponsible and worse.

And also that the article stresses that it is often misdiagnosed. As someone who lost three decades of life to a misdiagnosis, that is hard to read,

And given the effects it also decided me never ever to touch alcohol again. It has so much power for damage. We do not need it, period.

rentcar · 22-04-2017 06:12PM

thanks very good site

ytpe2r5bxkn0c1 · 22-04-2017 06:22PM

Graces7 wrote: »

Just in and reading this

Of course I knew re Foetal Alcohol Syndrome and its effects .

My family in Canada face this disability every day as many affected are homeless etc so are fed etc on the streets..

Yes it is the sheer numbers and also that this is injury inflicted by the mother that is totally and utterly avoidable. As if the unborn did not face enough troubles and dangers . And as if rearing children was not hard enough without serious disability of this kind. It will affect the entire family

So yes it is irresponsible and worse.

And also that the article stresses that it is often misdiagnosed. As someone who lost three decades of life to a misdiagnosis, that is hard to read,

And given the effects it also decided me never ever to touch alcohol again. It has so much power for damage. We do not need it, period.

Interesting that many of those affected in Canada are homeless. The figures here show it is more prevalent in middle class families.

As for never touching alcohol again. It's not a big bad wolf. There are times and places for it. It can be consumed without risk by many, at many times. Let's keep all in perspective.

Lady is a tramp · 22-04-2017 06:24PM

My understanding is that no harm is likely to be done to the foetus until the placenta is formed, which happens at around 6-7 weeks pregnant.

Most harm that is done to the foetus via alcohol happens within the first trimester, i.e. if the mother drinks excessively in the period between that 6-7 week mark, and the end of the first three months of pregnancy. (Obviously it's not a good idea to drink excessively in the second or third trimesters, but those first three months are when the most significant damage is likely to be done to the developing foetus.)

Personally I found out I was pregnant at 3 days past the 4 week mark, and stopped drinking immediately, and no harm was done to the baby. I did have one West Coast Cooler at around the 6/7 month mark, when out for dinner with my boyfriend, but I'd done enough research to be satisfied that this one drink would not do any harm to the baby. (I still felt a bit uncomfortable though, I felt like other diners might be judging me for having the drink, when I had a visible bump at that stage!)

A good friend of mine drank alcoholically through all three of her pregnancies, from start to finish, even had her husband bring alcohol in to her in Holles Street the day after the youngest was born. Amazingly she had two perfectly healthy babies; the third had slight Foetal Alcohol Syndrome but she's in her twenties now and very happy and healthy and successful in her career; you'd never know there had been anything wrong with her. Her mother has been sober now for close to twenty years. Obviously it took her a long term to come to terms with the guilt involved; alcoholism is a really awful disease to live with.

Whispered · 22-04-2017 06:25PM

I was past my 1st trimester before I found out I was pregnant and I drank every weekend before I knew. I spent the rest of my pregnancy feeling absolutely sick with guilt and worry. I really don't know how anybody can knowingly drink to excess when pregnant.

However when I expressed my concerns to my doctor he tried to put my mind at ease and told me not to worry.

Mrs OBumble · 22-04-2017 08:31PM

ceadaoin. wrote: »

On all the studies done on alcohol consumption during pregnancy, FAS has never been observed .

Has any study ever observed an Irish person who is capable of drinking moderately? I've never met one.

Personally I blame moderate fetal alcohol damage for a lot of the ****wittery we observe in public life here, FAS diagnosis or not.

andekwarhola · 22-04-2017 09:09PM

Even if a moderate drink is OK, the thought of drinking any alcohol with a baby inside you is weird.

andekwarhola · 22-04-2017 09:11PM

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

Had any study ever observed an Irish person who is capable of drinking moderately? I've never met one.

You've never met a moderate Irish drinker in your life?

Spanish Eyes · 22-04-2017 09:18PM

If men could get pregnant there would be no castigation of women or men.

Look, my mother gave birth to four of us. She didn't smoke, but she had a bottle of Guinness every day, was told this was good for her iron levels at the time. LOL.

We are ok. So is she.

My father just had to deposit the sperm. No judgments there for him at all. And the same today.

Women have so many rules thrown at them.

mrsbeebee · 22-04-2017 09:30PM

I had the odd drink on baby no 1 - probably about 6/7 over the 9 months. It was 10 years ago and advice at the time was the odd one won't hurt. was offered a glass of wine at a party when I was pregnant with my 3Rd baby 3 years ago. I said no thanks but I'd have a cup of coffee and the response was "really? Should you be drinking coffee?".

22-04-2017 09:33PM

andekwarhola wrote: »

You've never met a moderate Irish drinker in your life?

Most people are moderate drinkers I'd guess.

Romantic Rose · 22-04-2017 09:34PM

Ugh reminds me when I was going to the Coombe when I was pregnant with my first child and there would be pregnant ladies outside huffing and puffing the cigs while guzzling their big bottles of coke.

I don't think it should be hard to cut cigarettes or alcohol and junk food out for 9 months but people are selfish.

Sam Kade · 22-04-2017 09:38PM

I wonder how many of the do gooders in this thread support abortion?

Spanish Eyes · 22-04-2017 09:58PM

The day men will be told to avoid drink and the likes for the nine months of their partner/wife's pregnancy is the day I will take notice of the "pregnancy rules".

Everyone knows that doing things that might harm the baby is not good. It is the absence of the same rules for the same time for the Dad that is a laugh. Should be a blood test for both at the antenatal classes/scans. Can you imagine.

Drinking in pregnancy...

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