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A position on damage incurred to property from livestock - options?

  • 12-04-2017 11:08AM
    #1
    darrenheaphy
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 802 ✭✭✭


    Related to a thread created a while back here, I had 17 horses break into my garden from a farmers field and create significant damage to my garden. My request here is to understand what my options are, I'll consciously avoid any personal details so hopefully am in line with boards.ie mod rules.

    Initially the owner of the land, and the owner of the livestock, had both agreed that the livestock owner would cover any costs. In the proceeding 2 months I've been organising landscapers to assess the damage, finally I have quotes and talked him through the cheapest one.

    I rang the livestock owner today, he thinks I'm screwing him around ("your'e up my back" ... I presume that's what it means) and would rather just send some dude. Of course I don't mind who does it but I don't want him sending some handy man who fill in some holes and leave the rest, we've spent loads of time and money on the garden.

    I'm not sure what my options are though for recourse :( Do I wait for this assessment and then challenge the fellow's capacity to the do job?


Comments

  • #2
    Pat Mustard
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,554 ✭✭✭Pat Mustard


    Mod note:

    This seems to be a request for practical advice regarding how to approach the situation rather than a request for legal advice. So that seems to be okay.

    In any event, users are reminded that if legal advice is given, this thread may have to be closed.


  • #3
    darrenheaphy
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 802 ✭✭✭darrenheaphy


    Exactly, I'm not sure who ultimately decides. If, for example, the livestock owners refuses to support the costs of a landscaper and I refuse to engage with a local fellow who I don't believe will do a proper job, then what are my options? I have a feeling that this is one of those things that could drag on and I worry that we get stuck with a garden that's left in a mess


  • #4
    nhunter100
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,990 ✭✭✭nhunter100


    darrenheaphy wrote:
    Exactly, I'm not sure who ultimately decides. If, for example, the livestock owners refuses to support the costs of a landscaper and I refuse to engage with a local fellow who I don't believe will do a proper job, then what are my options? I have a feeling that this is one of those things that could drag on and I worry that we get stuck with a garden that's left in a mess

    I had similar happen to me, the other party wanted his mate to sort out my garden. I refused point blank as my garden was landscaped I wanted it returned to that condition. I allowed the other party obtain quotes and finally I agreed to the landscaper he was happy with ( cheapest I assume). Hopefully you won't, unlike me have to inform him as to what my ultimate option was going to be.


  • #5
    darrenheaphy
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 802 ✭✭✭darrenheaphy


    That's a fair point, I can ask that he obtain quotes from legitimate landscapers and if he finds one cheaper than great, it's not like I'm adding scope to it anyway rather than just a friend of his (who I suspect will just smooth over the holes). What's the ultimate option that you had reserved?


  • #6
    nhunter100
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,990 ✭✭✭nhunter100


    darrenheaphy wrote:
    That's a fair point, I can ask that he obtain quotes from legitimate landscapers and if he finds one cheaper than great, it's not like I'm adding scope to it anyway rather than just a friend of his (who I suspect will just smooth over the holes). What's the ultimate option that you had reserved?


    The legal avenue, but always best avoided if possible though. I just let him know that was the only other option available to settle matters.


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  • #7
    Samuel T. Cogley
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,679 ✭✭✭✭Samuel T. Cogley


    Keep the work under the €2,000 and claim through the small claims procedure (practical advice only).


  • #8
    darrenheaphy
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 802 ✭✭✭darrenheaphy


    Thanks both, the damage is significant enough that the cheapest I could find was 4k though (I got 3 individual assessments)


  • #9
    Samuel T. Cogley
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,679 ✭✭✭✭Samuel T. Cogley


    darrenheaphy wrote: »
    Thanks both, the damage is significant enough that the cheapest I could find was 4k though (I got 3 individual assessments)

    Get the main work done and cover the rest yourself would be my advice. Otherwise it's a full DC case and you'd probably want a solicitor. Also enforcement is always going to be an issue on either route.


  • #10
    the_syco
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 37,310 ✭✭✭✭the_syco


    Samuel T. Cogley wrote: »
    Keep the work under the €2,000 and claim through the small claims procedure (practical advice only).
    As the OP will be claiming from a person as opposed to a business, would this work?


  • #11
    Samuel T. Cogley
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,679 ✭✭✭✭Samuel T. Cogley


    It doesn't say it can't be a personal claim but I'm just looking at the summary.

    http://www.courts.ie/Courts.ie/library3.nsf/pagecurrent/781D7D5227918A618025715C004CAEF3?opendocument


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  • #12
    jcd5971
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,546 ✭✭✭jcd5971


    Get the work done as cheaper as you can and just give them the bill, it's not your fault your the victim in this situation.


  • #13
    darrenheaphy
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 802 ✭✭✭darrenheaphy


    jcd5971 wrote: »
    Get the work done as cheaper as you can and just give them the bill, it's not your fault your the victim in this situation.

    Yeah, I'm tempted but I can't afford to be stuck with the bill especially if he refuses to pay it


  • #14
    jcd5971
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,546 ✭✭✭jcd5971


    darrenheaphy wrote:
    Yeah, I'm tempted but I can't afford to be stuck with the bill especially if he refuses to pay it


    He can't really refuse, I suppose you could go to him with your figure and give him a reasonable dealing say a month for anything up to a grand etc, and let him know that by the point if he has not paid you shall go to a solicitor.

    I get this is a bit of a nuclear option though


  • #15
    darrenheaphy
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 802 ✭✭✭darrenheaphy


    Looks like I need to go the solicitor route :( Generally speaking is it just as effective to use the Small Claims process rather than a solicitor? And if I pay a solicitor and am successful in compelling him to pay does he also pay legal fees?


  • #16
    Samuel T. Cogley
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,679 ✭✭✭✭Samuel T. Cogley


    darrenheaphy wrote: »
    Looks like I need to go the solicitor route :( Generally speaking is it just as effective to use the Small Claims process rather than a solicitor? And if I pay a solicitor and am successful in compelling him to pay does he also pay legal fees?

    Fees: Maybe, maybe not. A solicitor is going to be more effective then a do it yourself small claim and a chat with the registrar but enforcement is exactly the same - potentially problematic.

    I imagine that the standard of proof required in a full hearing of the DC will also be more than the small claims procedure in practice if not in theory.


  • #17
    NUTLEY BOY
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,350 ✭✭✭NUTLEY BOY


    Just a view without offering legal advice.

    In this situation it looks like an assessment of damages case only.

    Conceptually, I am not sure that the Small Claims Court has jurisdiction as the parties are not dealing with each other as contracting parties in the course of business.

    The farmer should have referred this matter to his public liability insurers who are probably FBD.

    OP should check with his insurers if he has accidental damage cover. If so, and they cover it, they can then fund the relevant legal action to seek recovery from the defendant of the relevant outlays.

    OP is under absolutely no obligation whatsoever to accept reinstatement work by any party other the one he chooses to fix the damage. The defendant cannot "impose" a repairer on the OP.

    In short, the culpable party pays up or you see him in court.


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