Truck driven into crowd in Stockholm - No Speculation

stefanovich · 08-04-2017 07:43AM

Atlantic Dawn wrote: »

The recent London attack by Adrian Elms, that was his born name, end of.

I'm not sure I understand the logic here. Is it to prevent encouraging further Islamic attacks by giving media attention or is it to prevent Muslims being tarred with the one brush?

I think you need to tell the truth rather than trying to ignore it in the hopes it will go away.

biko · 08-04-2017 08:26AM

https://www.svd.se/in-english-this-is-what-we-know

Central Stockholm has been subject of a terror attack. Four people are dead and fifteen people injured after a lorry ran into a crowd at the main pedestrian city street, at Drottninggatan. One person is being held under suspicion of terrorism.

Snake Plisken · 08-04-2017 10:00AM

Pathetic from the Irish Times
https://twitter.com/irishtimes/status/850432358968811520

biko · 08-04-2017 10:17AM

Lefties are more worried to lose power to the right than actually addressing the problem of violent immigrants.

But yeah, it will boost the right-wing Sweden Democrats chances in next year's election.
And it should, as no-one else have the balls to deal with the issue except some feeble "condemnation" attempts and #prayforstockholm.

biko · 08-04-2017 10:27AM

The arrested 39yo man is from Uzbekistan and allegedly expressed sympathy for IS online, according to the Swedish tabloid, Aftonbladet.

ilkhanid · 08-04-2017 11:03AM

Widdershins wrote: »

For BoatMad, interesting article detailing the different attitudes among young Muslims over time (in French banlieues)

''Many French Muslims, even in the banlieues, seem to agree with Kepel that the core problem is the spread of more aggressive forms of Islam.

This is the same problem referred to earlier. Contrary to the standard narrative of younger generations becoming more assimilated and moderate,the opposite is often happening in Western Muslim communities. The harmless Pakistani corner-shopkeeper of yesteryear sometimes turns out to have a son that spurns the moderation of his father and sees him as a contemptible appeaser and trimmer.
I suppose part of the reason for this is the speed and ubiquity of modern media.
Ugly views that took years to percolate from one part of the world to another can now, in the time of Twitter and Skype and Android and Tor, arrive in seconds: the ravings of self-educated lunatics on YouTube, the sermons of Jihadi preachers on the Web, the influence of money from the Kingdom or the Gulf States. No mediating influences, the old Imams now decried as old hat, every young man is own theologian.
It's not unprecedented and the precedent is disturbing. Remember how the spread of printing in the early 16th century, the ease with which pamphlets and sermons could be produced gave legs to the most extreme variants of protestantism and the anabaptists flourished with extremists like Thomas Muntzer and John of Leyden taking over cities. This was the beginning of 130 (approx.) years of religious war in Europe (longer in Ireland).

gitzy16v wrote: »

It quite an eye opener(though i feel my eyes are quite open already).

I think most people who comment here and on other social media all agree that Saudi influenced Salafism is the main cause of all the anti-western feeling among Muslims....especially the vulnerable young folk who have no jobs,feel disenfranchised from society and they are easy picking for these salafist Imams for conversion to extremism.

I agree, to a degree, about the Saudi influence, but it's wider than that. The real starting point was the Iranian revolution, that kicked off a "more Islamic-than-thou" competition with the Saudis. But the virus was circulating long before that, in organsations like the Muslim Brotherhood and much of the roots of Jihadism are to be found in the Indian sub-continent where the competition between Hindus, Sikhs and Muslims prompted a new Muslim piety. But that's beside the point. All these streams have now run together into one monstrous torrent.

CoolHandBandit · 08-04-2017 11:09AM

biko wrote: »

The arrested 39yo man is from Uzbekistan and allegedly expressed sympathy for IS online, according to the Swedish tabloid, Aftonbladet.

Imagine my shock.

Help!!!! · 08-04-2017 12:26PM

Nody wrote: »

Aah the famous Trump defence; most people says... If you are that badly informed then I suggest you go offline, read a few books and actually learn some history. Here's the list of Islam (or claimed Islam) related incidents in the USA before 9/11 and at the very least the first attempt on the building back in 1993 has to be seen as the starting point.

2000.03.17 USA Atlanta, GA 1 1 A local imam and Muslim spiritual leader guns down a deputy sheriff and injures his partner.
1997.04.03 USA Lompoc, CA 1 0 A prison guard is stabbed to death by a radical Muslim.
1997.03.23 USA New York, NY 1 6 A Palestinian leaves an anti-Jewish suicide note behind and travels to the top of the Empire State building where he shoot seven people in a Fedayeen attack.
1994.03.01 USA Brooklyn, NY 1 0 A Muslim gunman targets a van packed with Jewish boys, killing a 16-year-old.
1993.02.26 USA New York, NY 6 1040 Islamic terrorists detonate a massive truck bomb under the World Trade Center, killing six people and injuring over 1,000 in an effort to collapse the towers.
1993.01.25 USA Langley, VA 2 3 A Pakistani with Mujahideen ties guns down two CIA agents outside of the headquarters.
1990.11.05 USA New York City, NY 1 0 An Israeli rabbi is shot to death by a Muslim attacker at a hotel.
1990.01.31 USA Tuscon, AZ 1 0 A Sunni cleric is assassinated in front of a Tuscon mosque after declaring that two verses of the Qur'an were invalid.
1989.11.06 USA St. Louis, MO 1 0 A 17-year-old girl is stabbed to death by her parents for bringing 'dishonor' to their family by dating an 'infidel' African-American.
1980.08.31 USA Savou, IL 2 0 An Iranian student guns down his next-door neighbors, a husband and wife.
1980.07.22 USA Bethesda, MD 1 0 A political dissident is shot and killed in front of his home by an Iranian agent who was an American convert to Islam.
1977.03.09 USA Washington, DC 1 1 Hanifi Muslims storm three buildings including a B'nai B'rith to hold 134 people hostage. At least two innocents were shot and one died.
1974.04.16 USA Ingleside, CA 1 0 A man is killed while helping a friend move by Nation of Islam terrorists.
1974.04.01 USA Oakland, CA 1 1 A Nation of Islam terrorist shoots at two Salvation Army members, killing a man and injuring a woman.
1974.01.24 USA Oakland, CA 4 1 Five vicious shooting attacks by Nation of Islam terrorists leave three people dead and one paralyzed for life. Three of the victims were women.
1973.12.24 USA Oakland, CA 1 0 A man is kidnapped, tortured and decapitated by Nation of Islam terrorists.
1973.12.22 USA Oakland, CA 2 0 Nation of Islam terrorist kills two people in separate attacks on the same day.
1973.12.20 USA Oakland, CA 1 0 Nation of Islam terrorists gun down an 81-year-old janitor.
1973.12.13 USA Oakland, CA 1 0 A woman is shot to death on the sidewalk by Nation of Islam terrorists.
1973.12.11 USA Oakland, CA 1 0 A man is killed by Nation of Islam terrorists while using a phone booth.
1973.11.25 USA Oakland, CA 1 0 A grocer is killed in his store by Nation of Islam terrorists.
1973.10.29 USA Berkeley, CA 1 0 A woman is shot repeatedly in the face by Nation of Islam terrorists.
1973.10.19 USA Oakland, CA 1 1 Nation of Islam terrorists kidnap a couple and nearly decapitate the man, while raping and leaving the woman for dead.
1973.07.18 USA Washington, DC 8 2 Nation of Islam members shoot seven members of a family to death in cold blood, including four children. A defendant in the case is later murdered in prison on orders from Elijah Muhammad.
1973.07.01 USA Bethesda, MD 1 0 An Israeli diplomat is gunned down in his driveway by Palestinian terrorists.
1973.01.19 USA Brooklyn, NY 1 1 Muslim extremists rob a sporting goods store for weapons, gunning down a police officer who responds to the alarm.
1972.04.14 USA New York, NY 1 3 Ten members of a local mosque phone in a false alarm and then ambush responding officers, killing one.
Now beyond the above table between 1980 to 2005 94% of the terrorist attacks in USA was not related to Muslims and in Europe the rate is at 2%.

So not only are Muslims not the main source of terrorism in the USA but neither are they in Europe; they simply make the best headlines.

Sure why not bring it all the way back to The Crusades, The Ottoman Empire, The Moors??

Help!!!! · 08-04-2017 12:31PM

Gbear wrote: »

Proportionality is the key.

When cars cause deaths do we ban all cars?
Does one minor driving offence result in an immediate driving ban? Imprisonment?

Why then is terrorism seen as a justification for the rendering obsolete of individual privacy, the demonisation of millions of people, the blockading of travel, trade and so on when the threat it poses to the population is somewhere between running with scissors and getting struck by lightning?

It's an excuse by authoritarians to increase their stranglehold over the population.

Cars dont cause deaths, drivers do....if someone causes death they usually get banned from driving

AlekSmart · 08-04-2017 01:11PM

gitzy16v wrote: »

It quite an eye opener(though i feel my eyes are quite open already).

I think most people who comment here and on other social media all agree that Saudi influenced Salafism is the main cause of all the anti-western feeling among Muslims....especially the vulnerable young folk who have no jobs,feel disenfranchised from society and they are easy picking for these salafist Imams for conversion to extremism.
Its hard for us as Christian(used very loosely) Westerners to have a fair discussion about this as you would be labelled all sorts of racist,bigot kind of stuff but we have to spare a thought for the Muslims who are trying to raise awareness of this problem within their own religion because they are facing death threats!!!

Several times have I posted on Boards,that the issue is not "The West vs Islam" but rather the far more difficiult scenario of "Islam vs Islam".

Currently the Internet era has,as referred elsewhere,allowed every crackpot angry,deluded bearded eejit who has a notion of being directly connected to Allah,to spread,and increase,the level of anti-Western hatred now being regularly experienced in our European cities.

The real question is What will Islam do about it...when will Islam realize that IT has a decision to make regarding who is actually in control of their future...We soft Western Christian kuffirs have little or no say in this process,except to be interested observers.

However,the outcome of this internal Islamic debate,will most definitely decide how Our Western Societies then proceed.

AlekSmart · 08-04-2017 01:15PM

Widdershins wrote: »

For BoatMad, interesting article detailing the different attitudes among young Muslims over time (in French banlieues)

''Many French Muslims, even in the banlieues, seem to agree with Kepel that the core problem is the spread of more aggressive forms of Islam. In Mantes-la-Jolie, I met a 50-year-old shop owner who told me he believed that by the 1990s, the situation was improving, and â€œFrance was ready to assimilate its Maghrebins,â€ or North Africans. What changed, he said, was not primarily the advances of the racist National Front, but the spread of Gulf-sponsored Salafism. The man described this phenomenon in terms almost identical to Kepelâ€™s. He told me he had been shaken by some of his encounters with young local men, many of them poorly educated and delinquent but full of religious rage. Sometimes, he said, men came into the shop and called him an infidel, in front of other customers. The shopkeeper asked me not to use his name, because he feared reprisals from the Salafis. â€œNow, people seem almost not to want assimilation,â€ he said. â€œThey have taken on a religion that has nothing to do with their own origins. Itâ€™s a lost generation.â€''

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/04/05/magazine/france-election-gilles-kepel-islam.html?smid=fb-share&_r=0

Probably the most accurate summation of the core issue I've yet read.

Worthy of being made a sticky for this and other related threads.

AudreyHepburn · 08-04-2017 01:15PM

The worst part of all these attacks is that there seems to be quite literally nothing we can do stop them or dissuade people from carrying them out.

These people don't care what they do, who they do it to or if they die in the process - how do you fight back against such a mindset?

Thoughts are with the people of Stockholm - stay strong.

08-04-2017 01:28PM

biko wrote: »

The arrested 39yo man is from Uzbekistan and allegedly expressed sympathy for IS online, according to the Swedish tabloid, Aftonbladet.

Why does it seem like no other news agencies, even the ones that would be quick to publish these, have mentioned this? If this guy is innocent, then f*ck that tabloid.

AlekSmart · 08-04-2017 01:28PM

AudreyHepburn wrote: »

The worst part of all these attacks is that there seems to be quite literally nothing we can do stop them or dissuade people from carrying them out.

These people don't care what they do, who they do it to or if they die in the process - how do you fight back against such a mindset?

Thoughts are with the people of Stockholm - stay strong.

It's gone a bit further than us attempting to "dissuade" these people.

If their devoutly held religious belief relates to their God desiring them to kill,injure,and reduce the standing of the Infidel,then our only defence is one of limiting our exposure to large scale immigration of that belief structure.

Instead,however,we have,with little public debate,decided to abandon decades of prudent,reasonable Inspection and Control,in favour of externally decided Quota's,the rationale behind which has never been fully revealed.

As for "Fighting back against this mindset"...This is something which HAS to come from within Islam itself,as part of a process which we must support.

However,currently,it is this very specific Mindset,which Host Western Countries,such as Germany and Sweded appear intent upon supporting and excusing at every opportunity.

There are Two houses which require Putting in order here.

Danzy · 08-04-2017 01:48PM

CoolHandBandit wrote: »

It is now the new normal. To be perfectly honest i think it's just a matter of time before it happens in Ireland :mad:

It is only a matter of time and given the very high level of recruits fighting from the Muslim community in Ireland, among the highest in Europe, likely to be carried out by people who have battle experience.

There should be security on high profile targets like Google,Facebook, gay pride, gay bars, Jewish Schools and Synagogues.

They are targets that Jihadis could come here to target, never mind the large number we have on the ground as is.

Snake Plisken · 08-04-2017 02:07PM

As expected the 39 year old suspect was known to security services.
I wonder how long before they do decide to target say a Grafton Street under the justification of say Ireland leaving US military to refuel at Shannon.
Btw are much of the media showing the dead children in the streets of Stockholm? you don't have to go to Syria or Iraq to see this anymore thanks the spread of Islamic hatred across Europe! Then again that doesn't suit the Medias narrative here.

Depp · 08-04-2017 02:23PM

Snake Plisken wrote: »

As expected the 39 year old suspect was known to security services.
I wonder how long before they do decide to target say a Grafton Street under the justification of say Ireland leaving US military to refuel at Shannon.
Btw are much of the media showing the dead children in the streets of Stockholm? you don't have to go to Syria or Iraq to see this anymore thanks the spread of Islamic hatred across Europe! Then again that doesn't suit the Medias narrative here.

Never mind shannon as a justification they don't need that, we're all infidels and dont deserve to live far as they see it.

Danzy · 08-04-2017 02:28PM

Our culture of Socialising, Alcohol, live music, the wide support for gay marriage, all of these things are much more of a justification than refueling at Shannon.

BorneTobyWilde · 08-04-2017 02:35PM

Seems to me this attack is being pushed under the rug a bit. Not much about it, trying to cover up the mistakes the EU has made. I'm not talking about refugees, I'm talking about how the people who commit these attacks are known to the authorities but we don't act on the info as we don't want to upset the poor fella who ran down these people. Would not want to hurt his feelings, that would not be PC to do that after all. Best let him act first, and then we will cover up story as quickly as possible.

Depp · 08-04-2017 02:41PM

BorneTobyWilde wrote: »

Seems to me this attack is being pushed under the rug a bit. Not much about it, trying to cover up the mistakes the EU has made. I'm not talking about refugees, I'm talking about how the people who commit these attacks are known to the authorities but we don't act on the info as we don't want to upset the poor fella who ran down these people. Would not want to hurt his feelings, that would not be PC to do that after all. Best let him act first, and then we will cover up story as quickly as possible.

It did happen in sweden after all they're known for keeping stuff like this quiet. read a very interesting piece about the swedish security services actually, seemingly they're very on the ball surveillance wise but a lot are surprised this hasnt happened sooner as they're completely hamstrung by legistlation insofar as they have no legal way of acting on info in a lot of cases. I'll post a link if i can find it again, was in one of the big papers websites yesterday!

ilkhanid · 08-04-2017 03:30PM

AlekSmart wrote: »

It's gone a bit further than us attempting to "dissuade" these people.
If their devoutly held religious belief relates to their God desiring them to kill,injure,and reduce the standing of the Infidel,then our only defence is one of limiting our exposure to large scale immigration of that belief structure.

It's a mindset so far gone into crazy zealotry that it won't even recognise the damage that it's doing to it's own community. Muslims have been killed in these attacks, but the perpetrators don't care. Their attitude would be either "Serve you right, for mixing in Kuffr society", or as Arnaud Amalric said (or so the story has it) at Beziers , in Christianity's own era of religious fanaticism "Strike them all down, Allah will recognise his own"

AlekSmart wrote: »

As for "Fighting back against this mindset"...This is something which HAS to come from within Islam itself,as part of a process which we must support.

At present they're getting damn all support, whereas in academia the Salafist tendency seem to rule the roost. Reformist Muslims are ignored or howled down while the bien-pensant look on idly.

CoolHandBandit · 08-04-2017 03:41PM

Only 24hrs or so since this attack and i see it's already dropped down from the main story on several news outlets. I do wonder if Trump hadn't made those (justified) comments some weeks back about Sweden if this would be getting more coverage.

Will I Am Not · 08-04-2017 03:44PM

CoolHandBandit wrote: »

Only 24hrs or so since this attack and i see it's already dropped down from the main story on several news outlets.

When something becomes so commonplace...

silverharp · 08-04-2017 03:49PM

CoolHandBandit wrote: »

Only 24hrs or so since this attack and i see it's already dropped down from the main story on several news outlets. I do wonder if Trump hadn't made those (justified) comments some weeks back about Sweden if this would be getting more coverage.

I'd say its just a combination of Sweden being a less important country, people dont know it that well and not that "many" people were killed. The way it was reported its kind of sanatised, I doubt any large media outfit showed the picture of the woman who was essentially in 3 pieces.

biko · 08-04-2017 03:57PM

Remember that Sweden could possibly be the most PC country in the world.

AlekSmart · 08-04-2017 04:02PM

CoolHandBandit wrote: »

Only 24hrs or so since this attack and i see it's already dropped down from the main story on several news outlets. I do wonder if Trump hadn't made those (justified) comments some weeks back about Sweden if this would be getting more coverage.

I would be confident that we can allow Mr Trump a pass on this one.

Sweden and Germany have invested much political clout into "handling" any differences with,or resistance to,their new vision on largely uncontrolled mass immigration.

It is not that there are opposing voices raised within their societies,but rather the mechanisms which are then used to silence or deflect these voices,the latest of which makes such great use of the emotive term "Hate Speech"..

Police and Intelligence services in both countries are doing great work in identifying and tracking many such crazies,however their Political leaders are fully intent on proving themselves right...even if that results in the deaths of their own citizens.

The issue is one of the primacy of the Political Elite and their worldview,which must be seen to prevail in the face of Nazism,Hate Speech,Racism,Isolationism all of which are supposedly,regularly to be seen wherever a voice is raised in opposition to liberalising the Refugee/Immigration/Asylum systems which have,historically,been proven to work for Ireland.

Being constantly told that we "MUST" act,or that we are morally "OBLIGED" to assist in solving Chancellor Merkel's entirely contrived Migrant issue,literally laughs off the images of dismembered innocent people lying on the streets of Stockholm.

Sweden's polices in this area,have been the cause of significant internal unease,yet have remained steadfastly biased in favour of the unnown,unvetted and unstable,which has,unsurprisingly now come home to roost.

JupiterKid · 08-04-2017 08:47PM

I'm on a LGBT message boards and any discussion that the Stockholm attack and other Islamist terrorist attacks might, just might be linked to immigration into Europe is shouted down as xenophobic and racist. Left wing SJW cultural Marxist views predominate. Sad that you can't even try to generate a reasoned discussion without being branded a bigot.

Beyondgone · 08-04-2017 08:51PM

JupiterKid wrote: »

I'm on a LGBT message boards and any discussion that the Stockholm attack and other Islamist terrorist attacks might, just might be linked to immigration into Europe is shouted down as xenophobic and racist. Left wing SJW cultural Marxist views predominate. Sad that you can't even try to generate a reasoned discussion without being branded a bigot.

Turkeys cheering for Christmas?

This aspect amazes me. Most "newcomers" are rabidly intolerant of lgbt people. Why the lack of concern?

Il Fascista · 08-04-2017 08:52PM

This should worry lefties, but it wont.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4393590/Police-officers-Stockholm-attacked-STONES.html

biko · 08-04-2017 08:53PM

Tonight in Umea there was a "manifestation of lights", not against the the terror attack, but against the xenophobia it might spawn.

https://www.facebook.com/events/1487811651232108/

Due to the suspected terror attack in Stockholm during the friday afternoon we're gathering everybody in Umeå who wants to stand up against violence. We manifest against the racism and hatred that grows in the footsteps of the violence, and for humanity. Come and show your support. Help us spread this event. More information about speakers, music etc. will come.

This is the Swedish way, not opposing the terrorists but opposing the people that would actually oppose the terrorists.
As I said earlier, the most PC nation in the world..

Truck driven into crowd in Stockholm - No Speculation

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