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ZV on a Benz R129?

  • 07-04-2017 9:50am
    #1
    RobAMerc
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,863 ✭✭✭


    maybe they issue ZV plates to short term imports?

    or am I missing something?


«1

Comments

  • #2
    fancy pigeon
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,865 ✭✭✭fancy pigeon


    Not missing a thing, it's a fraud :D


  • #3
    RobAMerc
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,863 ✭✭✭RobAMerc


    yea, that's it there again.

    The plates aren't even put on it correctly, they are placed over the correct plates which can clearly be seen beneath the dodgy ones.


  • #4
    Silvera
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,033 ✭✭✭Silvera


    It looks like a Jap import...with the 'ZV' plates placed over the Jap-plate metal carrier. Listed on cartell.ie as 'Mercedes Unknown 3499cc'.

    Seriously taking the P*@s!! :mad:


  • #5
    quadrifoglio verde
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,670 ✭✭✭quadrifoglio verde


    It only needs a guard who knows his cars to know that it's too young for a zv.
    You'd have to wonder though would he react to it?


  • #6
    mickdw
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 23,460 ✭✭✭✭mickdw


    One of these cropped up before here. Not sure if it's the same one but this was going back 7 or 8 years when it was even more of a piss take. They are actually getting close to vintage now though.


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  • #7
    MotherTeresa
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 96 ✭✭MotherTeresa


    I think it's only a matter of time before blatant ringers like that R129 cause a crack down on all the ZV TD5's.
    Idiots like this are just ruining it for everyone in the classic car scene. Personally I am sick of seeing Mercedes unknowns being blatant driven, and sold clearly stating '79 so no NCT needed etc.
    Anyone can see that '90 spec W126 isn't a LHD '79 model etc. It's bad enough having to pay 200 Euro VRT for a ZV plate, but then to have people blatantly bypass the system with ringers is rubbing salt in the wounds.
    I honestly wonder whether a Traffic Corps Garda would stop it at a checkpoint or wave it through? (Assuming it had a tax and insurance disc in the windscreen).
    I suppose the reality is; Revenue are getting 200 Euro for every ZV plate sold; so they aren't interested in tightening the system up. More ZV plates, more ringers, more revenue stream.
    Another blatant one is all the Ford's one sees at classic car shows with UK reg's etched into the glass. And an original Irish plate!
    Sure why bother paying VRT at all? Just put it on any Ford plate and will be grand.


  • #8
    PaulK_CCI
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 827 ✭✭✭PaulK_CCI


    The decision to make pre-1980 cars exempt from the NCT was a big mistake. Yes, it meant the people in the NCT centres would have to allow for vintage cars to have more lenient thresholds for braking and emission, but surely it would outweigh the amount of scamming and ringing that is now so widespread. With the amount of "brown logbooks" still floating around, it would mean serious "chassis number" checking on the side of the road, which no gardi will be interested in picking up.
    A yearly NCT for cars up to 50 years of age, as is now common practise in most of the European countries, would eliminate in one go, these kinds of scammings/ringing.

    Of course, if the car comes on a seperate chassis, the likes of the beetle, range rover, land rover, it is and will always be perfectly ligitimate to swap bodies and engines for much later examples, until the government decides to put some legislation in place to make it harder for people to do so. Now, the law is still that the vehicle is identified by means of the chassis number on the chassis itself, and there is nothing against putting a different engine in a car or putting a younger body on it.


  • #9
    BonnieSituation
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,085 ✭✭✭✭BonnieSituation


    RobAMerc wrote: »
    maybe they issue ZV plates to short term imports?

    or am I missing something?

    That's outrageous. Ffs.

    Can't wait til i can get a ZV on my 97 Corolla.

    ---

    Incidentally, isn't it ZZ for short term import?


  • #10
    w124man
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,333 ✭✭✭w124man


    This is taking the piss to a new level


  • #11
    MotherTeresa
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 96 ✭✭MotherTeresa


    I agree that all cars should have to be NCT tested annually. What difference does it make '79 or '80? Both will most likely be used the same limited mileage going to shows etc. OK some people use their classics as a daily, so they need to be roadworthy in that case.
    Of course the emissions limits will be different, and some won't have rear seatbelts etc. But at least an annual safety check of brakes, suspension, tyres, lights, etc; would be fair enough.
    For example, I recently viewed an early W123 for sale. When I lifted the carpet in the rear footwells, I could see tarmac through the floorpan! NCT exempt of course as pre '79. What really unnerved me was the child seat in the back. Used daily to run the kids to school! An annual NCT check would get rotten death traps like that off the road, so it can only be a good thing for all concerned.
    Don't get me wrong, I don't like spending money on copper brake pipes and welding; but if that what it takes, that is what it takes.
    The way I see it is this, if one can't afford to maintain a classic correctly, one shouldn't be driving it on the road at all.
    Sadly I think it's only a matter of time before the Donegal slab differ types start putting ZV's on their Japanese imports and ruining it for us all. I mean if an R129 can get away with it, why not just stick a ZV on any '90's car?
    Shocking how cars like the '86 325i convertible on Donedeal have never had an NCT!


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  • #12
    Silvera
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,033 ✭✭✭Silvera


    BonnieSituation wrote: »
    Incidentally, isn't it ZZ for short term import?

    Yes, 'ZZ' is used for temporary plates (valid for one month).


  • #13
    ba_barabus
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,617 ✭✭✭ba_barabus


    Ah yes. That 1973 SL has been living in Churchtown for a good few years now. Knowing the house I can't imagine money is an issue so I can only assume that the owner is a miserly type. It's not the only car on his driveway with a very suspect reg iirc so I think he is getting braver with time.


  • #14
    MotherTeresa
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 96 ✭✭MotherTeresa


    ba_barabus wrote: »
    Ah yes. That 1973 SL has been living in Churchtown for a good few years now. Knowing the house I can't imagine money is an issue so I can only assume that the owner is a miserly type. It's not the only car on his driveway with a very suspect reg iirc so I think he is getting braver with time.

    Its brazen isn't it? I suppose as long as he has valid tax and insurance discs in the windscreen he gets waved through Garda checkpoints. I can't see any Garda traffic corps pulling a ZV for not NCT disc in reality. The thing is, say he continues to get away with this; its only a matter of time before monkey do what monkey see, and we have loads of '90's cars running around on ZV plates.
    I saw one in the flesh in my own town this year. A '90 spec E30 on an original Irish number plate. But it still had the UK 1990 G reg number etched on all the glass! Obviously the owner didn't want to pay the 30% premium rate VRT so thought why bother? Just put it on an Irish plate. Naturally it didn't have any NCT, but of course had a 56 Euro tax disc though. Happy days.
    It was the red rear reg plate that caught my eye initially. I thought to myself, that is a really clean Irish E30! And he went to the trouble of making it fully '90 spec too!
    And then I saw the UK reg etches on the windows..
    I don't know, what is the solution to all this? Ringing cars and selling brown tax books is just going to get worse.
    Personally I think the Revenue need to sort out the classic car reg system and get rid of the ZV's, reissuing age related Irish number plates would be a better system.
    I am actually surprised the ZV TD5's haven't been clamped down on yet.


  • #15
    RobAMerc
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,863 ✭✭✭RobAMerc


    MotherTeresa wrote: »
    Personally I think the Revenue need to sort out the classic car reg system and get rid of the ZV's, reissuing age related Irish number plates would be a better system.

    In fairness if this car had an 87-D plate on it I dont know how many guards would spot it being an issue either (in fact I would have been less likely to notice it myself ).I think the original R129 came out in 88/89.


  • #16
    MotherTeresa
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 96 ✭✭MotherTeresa


    RobAMerc wrote: »
    In fairness if this car had an 87-D plate on it I dont know how many guards would spot it being an issue either (in fact I would have been less likely to notice it myself ).I think the original R129 came out in 88/89.

    Its true they were produced from '89. The earliest one I have seen in the flesh was a '90 G-reg one in the UK. It's a god point though, say it had an '87 plate on it? No Garda is going to bother pulling it, '87 or '89? Who cares. Close enough to get away with it. Looking at the number of classic cars for sale with no NCT on Donedeal, I feel like I shouldn't have bothered NCTing my own one at all. I honestly think the Garda aren't interested in ZV cars at all.
    I suppose the thinking is, the old lad probably takes it to the odd vintage show and rally. Even if it was a regular daily driver would they bother pulling it? Most probably not.
    I would love to drive an R129 these days myself, but wouldn't dare run it on a ZV though. So I suppose I will just have to wait say another 3 years until I can afford the 200 Euro VRT and 56 Euro tax rates.
    In the meantime I am patiently waiting until some of those '87 300CE's turn 30 later on this year. I always wanted one, and running a 3 litre on 56 Euro motor tax is very nice.


  • #17
    Silvera
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,033 ✭✭✭Silvera


    MotherTeresa wrote: »
    Personally I think the Revenue need to sort out the classic car reg system and get rid of the ZV's, reissuing age related Irish number plates would be a better system.

    I am actually surprised the ZV TD5's haven't been clamped down on yet.

    On the first point I agree 100%. They should issue unused pre-87 plates to imports and cars on ZV or year-plates (where the owner desires such a change of reg). AND such plates should not be issued to 1987-on vehicles.

    On point two, Discovery bodies on Range Rover or Land Rover chassis isnt an issue as this is perfectly legal...and happens in other EU countries. What IS an issue is when owners of such vehicles simply fit old reg plates onto a modern Discovery (i.e. no chassis change involved) ..i.e. 'ringing'!


  • #18
    mossy50
    Closed Accounts Posts: 390 ✭✭mossy50


    theres a fella in Kilkenny who builds cars like the above
    All you need is a sound chassis and u can put whatever merc body on it its a bit like a kit car
    once the chassis has a true plate the body is up to you
    he has a range rover 2003 shape on a 1978 defender 120 chassis and ive seen plenty fairly modern discos on ZV plates around here a neighbour / farmer has one


  • #19
    Silvera
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,033 ✭✭✭Silvera


    mossy50 wrote: »
    theres a fella in Kilkenny who builds cars like the above
    All you need is a sound chassis and u can put whatever merc body on it its a bit like a kit car
    once the chassis has a true plate the body is up to you
    he has a range rover 2003 shape on a 1978 defender 120 chassis and ive seen plenty fairly modern discos on ZV plates around here a neighbour / farmer has one

    We (well most people on this forum) are aware of the Range Rover / Landrover / Discovery 'ZV' plate / body swops (which is perfectly legal if done correctly), but what Mercedes cars of the last few decades have a seperate chassis?


  • #20
    woejus
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,497 ✭✭✭woejus


    could you (ab)use this method to get a nice reg for your car of similar model?

    Say for example I've a 1990 SL 500 and would like to get 90-D-500 - which is also an off-the-road SL 500? If I had the VIN for the 90-D-500 one?


  • #21
    fivesixtwo
    Registered Users Posts: 58 ✭✭fivesixtwo


    he has a range rover 2003 shape on a 1978 defender 120 chassis and ive seen plenty fairly modern discos on ZV plates around here a neighbour / farmer has one


    Its a little known secret that both Landrover and Mercedes Benz make special models for preproduction testing purposes, even though a "normal" 03 Range Rover does nor have a separate chassis, there are some examples on the road here that individuals have constructed themselves from a "special kit" that some fella sells somewhere,

    Its supposed to be a massive amount of work to do, the hardest being the precision drilling of the 4 rivet holes for the ID plate,

    Its well worth it though, especially when you know you can drive around in a stolen car, pay a small amount for tax and insurance and know that you will never be caught.

    Better still why not bring your L322 2006 stolen Range Rover to a classic car show and brag about all the winter nights you spent in your shed building it from a kit.


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  • #22
    antoinolachtnai
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,814 ✭✭✭antoinolachtnai


    I did notice a pretty prominent Revenue checkpoint on the Clonskeagh road during rush hour about three weeks ago. Struck me that they were looking for This Type of Thing.


  • #23
    Silvera
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,033 ✭✭✭Silvera


    antoinolachtnai wrote: »
    I did notice a pretty prominent Revenue checkpoint on the Clonskeagh road during rush hour about three weeks ago. Struck me that they were looking for This Type of Thing.

    I doubt it somehow. Revenue checkpoints seem to focus on UK/N.I. imports and 'red' diesel offences.

    Funnily enough I was stopped at such a checkpoint a few months ago in my '84 KE' classic. The officer requested me to pull onto the hard shoulder alongside several UK/N.I reg vehicles which were being checked by other officers. I was thinking 'Hmmm, why is he pulling me over when I have Irish plates on the car. I'll go along with this to see where it goes ;)"

    Anyway, no sooner had I pulled over than he walked beside the car and waved me back out to merge with traffic. I let down the passenger window to see what he had to say. He said something like "You're ok to go ahead. Unusual plates" and with that waved me on! :D

    Obviously when he didnt spot europlates on my car (I have old style large digit plates) he must have instantly thought it was a 'foreign vehicle'! :D


  • #24
    fivesixtwo
    Registered Users Posts: 58 ✭✭fivesixtwo


    Spotted another marvel of engineering near Carlow town a few days ago,

    Mercedes S class W140, which were launched in 1991, wearing silver on black plates, with a 1970s Cork reg xxxx ZT,

    What kind of work is involved in lifting the body off one of these from the "Chassis" and refitting a newer one??


  • #25
    mickdw
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 23,460 ✭✭✭✭mickdw


    fivesixtwo wrote: »
    Spotted another marvel of engineering near Carlow town a few days ago,

    Mercedes S class W140, which were launched in 1991, wearing silver on black plates, with a 1970s Cork reg xxxx ZT,

    What kind of work is involved in lifting the body off one of these from the "Chassis" and refitting a newer one??

    Remove 2 screws at the rear, 2 screws at the front. Entire body, engine and running gear comes away leaving only reg plates in situ.
    Repeat for donor vehicle.

    All that complex engineering work surely deserves the cheap tax.


  • #26
    w124man
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,333 ✭✭✭w124man


    fivesixtwo wrote: »

    Mercedes S class W140, which were launched in 1991, wearing silver on black plates, with a 1970s Cork reg xxxx ZT,


    Yup saw that one myself some weeks ago heading out the Port Laois road


  • #27
    pawdee
    Registered Users Posts: 552 ✭✭✭pawdee


    I saw a red R129 with ZV plates in Kinsale on Saturday. I knew straight away it wasn't right but I guess a younger guard (particularly one that isn't big into cars) wouldn't know the difference. I'm not a guard by the way! :)


  • #28
    unkel
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 65,707 ✭✭✭✭unkel
    Chauffe, Marcel, chauffe!


    PULSE knows and as does the ANPR. Hopefully he'll get caught and the car is taken off him until he coughs up all the back taxes and penalties on top. Makes a mockery of the concessions we do get for importing, taxing and testing our classic cars.

    My ads on adverts.ie

    https://www.adverts.ie/member/5856/ads



  • #29
    Silvera
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,033 ✭✭✭Silvera


    unkel wrote: »
    PULSE knows and as does the ANPR. Hopefully he'll get caught and the car is taken off him until he coughs up all the back taxes and penalties on top. Makes a mockery of the concessions we do get for importing, taxing and testing our classic cars.

    Not if it's recorded on the motor register system as 'Mercedes Other' and is showing as taxed and insured. Then many observers (revenue or Garda checkpoints) wouldn't bat an eyelid if it drove past them and they ran a check on their system.


  • #30
    Type 17
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,731 ✭✭✭Type 17


    Silvera wrote: »
    Not if it's recorded on the motor register system as 'Mercedes Other'...

    That laziness is encouraging this kind of nonsense - someone on here mentioned that their car was registered as Unknown Other (or similar), which means that literally any other vehicle could use its plates...


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  • #31
    wexie
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,480 ✭✭✭wexie


    Type 17 wrote: »
    That laziness is encouraging this kind of nonsense - someone on here mentioned that their car was registered as Unknown Other (or similar), which means that literally any other vehicle could use its plates...

    Happens pretty regularly although I thought it was only with much older cars.
    I had a land rover that was down as 'leyland, other' :confused:


  • #32
    Type 17
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,731 ✭✭✭Type 17


    Indeed, my own ZV-reg '76 Merc is a Mercedes-Benz Other - I should go to the UK and bring in an R129 and get an extra set of my plates made up... :pac:


  • #33
    wexie
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,480 ✭✭✭wexie


    Type 17 wrote: »
    Indeed, my own ZV-reg '76 Merc is a Mercedes-Benz Other - I should go to the UK and bring in an R129 and get an extra set of my plates made up... :pac:

    Ah but then you'd become part of the problem.

    What could potentially happen in a case like this if someone encountered a garda or customs and excise (would they have any jurisdiction) or something who knew what they were looking at?

    Is it fines and back tax or just car to the crusher?


  • #34
    mickdw
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 23,460 ✭✭✭✭mickdw


    I don't see how the plates could be used on any car just cause the description of the car was "Other".
    Surely the chassis number is still noted against the reg.

    I had an Alfa 166 that was recorded as Alfa Other.


  • #35
    wexie
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,480 ✭✭✭wexie


    mickdw wrote: »
    I don't see how the plates could be used on any car just cause the description of the car was "Other".
    Surely the chassis number is still noted against the reg.

    I had an Alfa 166 that was recorded as Alfa Other.

    Yeah but that would depend on the chassis number being checked. When's the last time anyone looked at your chassis number at a checkpoint?

    If they run the reg it comes back as something plausible....which is the end of most enquiries


  • #36
    Type 17
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,731 ✭✭✭Type 17


    mickdw wrote: »
    I don't see how the plates could be used on any car just cause the description of the car was "Other".
    Surely the chassis number is still noted against the reg.

    I had an Alfa 166 that was recorded as Alfa Other.

    The lazy data entry means that a Garda checking the reg can't see exactly what model belongs to that reg, so further investigation is required, such as opening the bonnet to check the VIN/chassis no. (which most Gardai won't bother with/have time for) - If you had a 80's "Alfa Other", on a ZV reg, but had the reg on an early 90's 164 3.0, you could avoid €1753 motor tax per year (€1809 less €56), and the car might be a UK import still owing VRT, and could even be a stolen vehicle...


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  • #37
    80sDiesel
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,349 ✭✭✭80sDiesel


    wexie wrote: »
    Ah but then you'd become part of the problem.

    What could potentially happen in a case like this if someone encountered a garda or customs and excise (would they have any jurisdiction) or something who knew what they were looking at?

    Is it fines and back tax or just car to the crusher?
    I got pulled over at a service station near the port in Dublin by customs when I was putting on copy plates for 4x4 that in had imported. ( they take them off in nz on export) . All was good but I figure they must have some powers.

    A man is rich in proportion to the number of things which he can afford to let alone.



  • #38
    wexie
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,480 ✭✭✭wexie


    80sDiesel wrote: »
    I got pulled over at a service station near the port in Dublin by customs when I was putting on copy plates for 4x4 that in had imported. ( they take them off in nz on export) . All was good but I figure they must have some powers.

    Yeah I was just wondering cause I've always heard it's not really the gardai you need to watch out for in these scenario's but the customs lads.

    As it is after one half dodgy land rover purchase I made the decision to just not drive anything that could be taken off me on the spot.


  • #39
    Type 17
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,731 ✭✭✭Type 17


    wexie wrote: »
    Ah but then you'd become part of the problem.

    I was being sarcastic, I have no intention of doing it, but if I had less scruples, it might be tempting (it obviously was for some R129 owners...).


  • #40
    mickdw
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 23,460 ✭✭✭✭mickdw


    Surely there are plenty gardai with interest in cars, more so in traffic corp possibly that would have been able to establish on sight that that Mercedes SL 0was nowhere near vintage when it first appeared on a zv plate. This is going back 5 or 6 years.


  • #41
    flatty
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,196 ✭✭✭flatty


    I'm looking at a 129 at present.
    It has a couple of small rust spots, one below a rear light, and one above a wheel arch. Does this mean I should avoid at all costs? The sills and arches look good otherwise.
    30 plus yrs old, 30 stamps in service book.


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  • #42
    Type 17
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,731 ✭✭✭Type 17


    The R129 on came out in early ‘89 (and even then, probably not in RHD at that stage) so, unless you’re looking at a LHD pre-production example, it’s probably not 30 years old yet.

    Rust spots: Get a look at the whole underside on a lift if you can - the visible rust spots may just badly repaired parking dings, but if the underside (especially the suspension parts) looks crusty, then it’s more of a general issue, and you should look at other examples instead.


  • #43
    Dades
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 25,558 Mod ✭✭✭✭Dades


    flatty wrote: »
    I'm looking at a 129 at present.
    It has a couple of small rust spots, one below a rear light, and one above a wheel arch. Does this mean I should avoid at all costs? The sills and arches look good otherwise.
    30 plus yrs old, 30 stamps in service book.
    The very first 129s won't be turning 30 until 2020, no?

    Does the one you're looking at have an NCT? Worth 10x stamps in a service book, imo.


  • #44
    flatty
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,196 ✭✭✭flatty


    I'm not worried about the classic tax, the age was just a ballpark. It has AN MOT for a year. It's in the UK.
    I appreciate the advice, thanks. I'll do that.


  • #45
    Tommyboy40
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 629 ✭✭✭Tommyboy40


    flatty wrote: »
    I'm not worried about the classic tax, the age was just a ballpark. It has AN MOT for a year. It's in the UK.
    I appreciate the advice, thanks. I'll do that.

    Watch uk cars for rust. Lift out the screen wash bottle, it's a likely spot. Check the bonnet latches and under the battery (from under the car). They will all run at the wings. I'd be more worried about the soft top operation. It's not electric but hydraulic. Cycle it plenty of times and check for leaks at the a pillars and underneath the back of the doors. Above all never jump start one, it tends to killl the top control module €1300 + vat. Don't bother with the 280 or 320. The difference in fuel economy is marginal, but in power enormous. Genuine mercedes service parts are cheap, often cheaper than a motor factors. Slight scratching on the side window is common. If you do buy it, I have a spare hard top


  • #46
    hi5
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,107 ✭✭✭hi5


    37145892_2063667713961625_7308960514363621376_n.jpg?_nc_cat=0&oh=02cd3e1265e38f30c84b81b2f0c5281e&oe=5BD7B23F


  • #47
    BonnieSituation
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,085 ✭✭✭✭BonnieSituation


    That's a spotless Mercedes-Benz Other.


  • #48
    colm_mcm
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 73,477 ✭✭✭✭colm_mcm


    Registered as a 1978 Mercedes E200 2000cc


  • #49
    Type 17
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,731 ✭✭✭Type 17


    The Mercedes W202 came out in 1993, and this owner brings one to a classic show with a ‘78 reg - how did he think that no one would notice? (that a ‘93 car isn’t yet a classic) :pac:


  • #50
    colm_mcm
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 73,477 ✭✭✭✭colm_mcm


    That’s even got the later rear lights?


  • #51
    hi5
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,107 ✭✭✭hi5


    Its the facelift version from '97 on.


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