Truck driven into crowd in Stockholm - No Speculation

Depp · 07-04-2017 08:48PM

BoatMad wrote: »

sure , slogans are a reason they do this

You understand that "infidels " are not the west, its apostates in particular that call refers too, ( i.e. the Shia Sunni schism etc)

this is blatantly false, an infidel is literally anyone who does not practice your brand of islam.

Danzy · 07-04-2017 08:48PM

BoatMad wrote: »

You have to understand that radicalised muslims see the " west" as the issue. The call by the jihadists to radicals in Europe was not specific , it just mentioned using ordinary things to cause harm ( and specially mentioned vehicles )

what you are then seeing is those European Muslims who have been radicalised by what they see and experience in the ME, reacting

thats all , its not that thought out, its a form of visceral reaction, its not centrally co-ordinated etc

Well an awful lot, not all, of them disagree with you and given they are the ones going to the effort of it all, I think they should have more say.

ilkhanid · 07-04-2017 08:48PM

BoatMad wrote: »

what you are then seeing is those European Muslims who have been radicalised by what they see and experience in the ME, reacting
thats all , its not that thought out, its a form of visceral reaction, its not centrally co-ordinated etc

"Radicalised by what they see and experience"
Then explain why only some experiences lead to radicalisation?

Why did the American intervention in Afghanistan lead to radicalisation but the mass murder of Shias by the Taliban made no impression? The campaign of murder against minorities in Pakistan-nothing to see here.
Why did the Soviet destruction in Afghanistan not prompt radicalisation until recently-and it was enormous in scale, with a death toll of a million?
Why do American bombings in Iraq lead to radicalisation but the enslavement of women, the butchery of harmless Yazidis, the destruction of minorities are met with a shrug.
Why is it that the Jihadi rampages of kidnapping, murder and slaughter in both East and West Africa have failed to arouse any soul-searching in the minds of European Muslims, ("not our problem") whereas the actions of Americans anywhere is a cause to start murdering their own countrymen?
Why is an an American drone strike that kills a dozen people a cause of radicalisation, but suicide bombers killing scores in a market or a mosque not regarded as something unjust or outrageous?
It seems that to certain western Muslims there is a hierarchy of suffering and Sunnis who die at the hands of "Western" forces trump every other slaughter, no matter how genocidal.
Sure never mind deaths, matters of little import seem to arouse this fury. Somebody burns a Koran half a world away and thousands of Afghan or Pakistani Muslims wreck mayhem. But the murder of a hundred children in Peshawar didn't bring anybody onto the streets, in fact it was met with apathy.

Shia live in the West too. Why don't they engage in this kind of conduct. They suffered too in the Bush war

Il Fascista · 07-04-2017 08:51PM

ilkhanid wrote: »

Why is an an American drone strike that kills a dozen people a cause of radicalisation, but a suicide bombers killing scores in a market a mosque not regarded as something unjust or outrageous?

This is possibly the best point made so far in this thread.

goose2005 · 07-04-2017 08:51PM

Gbear wrote: »

There are also more prosaic benefits pertaining to the good elements of culture (anyone fancy a curry?), economic benefits with migrants fulfulling a huge number of roles across society and sustaining the younger age profile we need to keep the social welfare pyramid scheme lurching along a while longer.

We constantly get told that our countries are over-populated and straining the environment, so why wouldn't some population decline be a good thing? And new waves of automation are expected to push the demand for labour even lower than it already is, so why import a huge amount of (generally unskilled) labour that isn't needed?

That doesn't constitute banning all Muslims, and to conflate them and Islamist terrorists is bald-faced racism.

Islam isn't a race. Recent Muslim terrorists have been white Europeans, Chinese Uighurs, Arabs, Turks, black Africans, Afro-Caribbean, etc. etc.

BoatMad · 07-04-2017 08:52PM

ilkhanid wrote: »

"Radicalised by what they see and experience"
Then explain why only some experiences lead to radicalisation?

Why did the American intervention lead to radicalisation but the mass murder of Shias by the Taliban made no impression? The campaign of murder against minorities in Pakistan-nothing to see here..
Why do American bombings in Iraq lead to radicalisation but the enslavement of women, the butchery of harmless Yazidis, the destruction of minorities are met with a shrug.
Why is an an American drone strike that kills a dozen people a cause of radicalisation, but a suicide bombers killing scores in a market a mosque not regarded as something unjust or outrageous?

Shia live in the West too. Why don't they engage in this kind of conduct. They suffered too in the Bush war

not to the same extent as the Sunnis. But you raise a few interesting points, but a long debate is needed to flesh them out . The whole ME is a mess of conflicting issues exacerbated by the west pouring petrol on it

Danzy · 07-04-2017 08:53PM

ilkhanid wrote: »

"Radicalised by what they see and experience"
Then explain why only some experiences lead to radicalisation?

Why did the American intervention lead to radicalisation but the mass murder of Shias by the Taliban made no impression? The campaign of murder against minorities in Pakistan-nothing to see here..
Why do American bombings in Iraq lead to radicalisation but the enslavement of women, the butchery of harmless Yazidis, the destruction of minorities are met with a shrug.
Why is an an American drone strike that kills a dozen people a cause of radicalisation, but a suicide bombers killing scores in a market a mosque not regarded as something unjust or outrageous?

Shia live in the West too. Why don't they engage in this kind of conduct. They suffered too in the Bush war

That doesn't suit his narrative or his doubts about people from the Middle East having personal agency, things can only happen in response to the West.

It is quite condescending.

BoatMad · 07-04-2017 08:53PM

We constantly get told that our countries are over-populated and straining the environment, so why wouldn't some population decline be a good thing? And new waves of automation are expected to push the demand for labour even lower than it already is, so why import a huge amount of (generally unskilled) labour that isn't needed?

as a proportion of the population no recent refugee streams are " huge" .

gitzy16v · 07-04-2017 08:54PM

5 minutes ago
Mr LÃ¶fven says his government has decided to strengthen border controls, with immediate affect.

Source:Independant live update

Closing the stable door after the horse has bolted comes to mind.

BoatMad · 07-04-2017 08:57PM

gitzy16v wrote: »

5 minutes ago
Mr LÃ¶fven says his government has decided to strengthen border controls, with immediate affect.

Source:Independant live update

Closing the stable door after the horse has bolted comes to mind.

especially as most of these attacks are perpetrated by people already living there

but it plays well with the domestic population

Message starts
" we will strengthen our borders, so the nameless bogeyman , cannot get to your bed, sleep tight now little population- Message ends

Somedude9 · 07-04-2017 08:58PM

Border controls!? Why the fascist, how dare he...Borders, whoever heard of such a thing? Sucked it up Eurocrats, you fools!

WHIP IT! · 07-04-2017 08:59PM

BoatMad wrote: »

yes a lot of it is , including two ill thought out invasions and the resulting chaos

Imagine being this much of a moron...

ilkhanid · 07-04-2017 08:59PM

BoatMad wrote: »

not to the same extent as the Sunnis.

Not to the same extent at all. So much for the inevitability of radicalisation in response to Western actions idea. I'd add Ismaelis to that too.

BoatMad wrote: »

Radical Muslims identify the " West " as the invader etc . Hence the strikes, this is not about targeting Sweden, its about targeting the "West"

So? That's no excuse. If I, say, in response to the London attack decided to target all Muslims: Sunni, Shia, Ahmadi, Ismaeli-groups that have no gripe with the West- and those from countries like Indonesia that have nothing to do with these troubles( and I'd have to have known that) and all Arabs, I'd be rightly condemned. No difference.

07-04-2017 08:59PM

The Fake Sheikh wrote: »

Wah wah wah... The IRA... wah wah wah... Catholicism and the Bible... wah wah wah... should we ban cars?... wah wah wah... they're European... wah wah f*cking wah.

Rinse and repeat every thread.

I mean, we could do the exact same thing with the posts you and your ilk say -

"hurpa durpa every Muslim is bad hurpa durpa don't even speak the language hurpa durpa"

Rinse and repeat every thread.

gitzy16v · 07-04-2017 09:01PM

BoatMad wrote: »

especially as most of these attacks are perpetrated by people already living there

but it plays well with the domestic population

Message starts
" we will strengthen our borders, so the nameless bogeyman , cannot get to your bed, sleep tight now little population- Message ends

The lad in Berlin came in through Italy from Libya along with the rest of them...caused trouble there was jailed,then released,then head off to Germany to get a truck to mow down innocent people.

Your spouting some sh1te now...good luck

Depp · 07-04-2017 09:06PM

Deleted User wrote: »

I mean, we could do the exact same thing with the posts you and your ilk say -

"hurpa durpa every Muslim is bad hurpa durpa don't even speak the language hurpa durpa"

Rinse and repeat every thread.

Don't necessarily agree with him on everything but for you to call someone out for a ''rinse and repeat'' attitude is a bit hypocritical when ''you and your ilk'' as you put it have the same ''rinse and repeat'' approach of a constant scramble for excuses whenever there's an attack while ignoring and playing down the blatantly obvious common denominator that is islamist ideology?

Danzy · 07-04-2017 09:11PM

At least Sweden is waking up to the fact that exacerbating the problem is not a course to pursue though I suspect that it will only close its borders for a while.

conorhal · 07-04-2017 09:14PM

Depp wrote: »

Don't necessarily agree with him on everything but for you to call someone out for a ''rinse and repeat'' attitude is a bit hypocritical when ''you and your ilk'' as you put it have the same ''rinse and repeat'' approach of a constant scramble for excuses whenever there's an attack while ignoring and playing down the blatantly obvious common denominator that is islamist ideology?

Just because that's what he hears (durka durka, blah Muslims) doesn't mean that is what was said, it's just a petty, reductive response that constitutes nothing more than the bitter invective of somebody hurling abuse into the void of a lost argument.

Islam is the common denominator, for all those whining about bombing the Middle East.

1) Perhaps there is a reason that's happening.

2) What has a Tunisian or a guy born in Lancashire attacking London or Paris got to do with Afghanistan or Syria? What's the common denominator? Could it be Islam?

Beyondgone · 07-04-2017 09:22PM

Danzy wrote: »

At least Sweden is waking up to the fact that exacerbating the problem is not a course to pursue though I suspect that it will only close its borders for a while.

Swedens issue is that Swedes are "nice". They had a stable, well balanced country with huge social supports for the populace. Or "cosy" as some might call it. Nice restaurants, theatre, Café culture, polite political debate.

Contrast that with their new arrivals.. people who have had to scrabble to survive, hack it across vast distances, surviving the equally scrabbling and indifferent people who occupy those vast distances before you hit "The West".

"Nice" has now met "harsh". You could even leave the whole "religious" angle aside. Just focus on the basic, yawning cultural differences. In the ME, massive car bombs are daily events. Fighter jets screaming overhead aren't unusual and if you throw in Libya, Iraq, Afghanistan etc, then seeing armed conflict daily wouldn't be anything unusual. Death and destruction wouldn't be alien concepts.

Chuck that mindset into a world of "nice" and things won't go well for the people of "nice". Because you don't leave yourself behind when you emigrate. If ramming a lorry packed with explosives into things is commonplace where you come from (and in a lot of the ME it is) then todays events wouldn't be much of a stretch. It's the folly of "nice" to think they can change "harsh" that is the real issue. Because Harsh will generally prevail.

conorhal · 07-04-2017 09:28PM

Beyondgone wrote: »

Swedens issue is that Swedes are "nice". They had a stable, well balanced country with huge social supports for the populace. Or "cosy" as some might call it. Nice restaurants, theatre, CafÃ© culture, polite political debate.

Contrast that with their new arrivals.. people who have had to scrabble to survive, hack it across vast distances, surviving the equally scrabbling and indifferent people who occupy those vast distances before you hit "The West".

"Nice" has now met "harsh". You could even leave the whole "religious" angle aside. Just focus on the basic, yawning cultural differences. In the ME, massive car bombs are daily events. Fighter jets screaming overhead aren't unusual and if you throw in Libya, Iraq, Afghanistan etc, then seeing armed conflict daily wouldn't be anything unusual. Death and destruction wouldn't be alien concepts.

Chuck that mindset into a world of "nice" and things won't go well for the people of "nice". Because you don't leave yourself behind when you emigrate. If ramming a lorry packed with explosives into things is commonplace where you come from (and in a lot of the ME it is) then todays events wouldn't be much of a stretch. It's the folly of "nice" to think they can change "harsh" that is the real issue. Because Harsh will generally prevail.

Uh.. but as soon as they arrived in Europe I thought they were now European and were going to, like, work and stuff and pay for my pension because we need new Europeans for that pyramid scheme?
That's what I was told at least.....

Snake Plisken · 07-04-2017 09:29PM

Yeah here you go lads here is innocent swedes running for their lives, the speed of that lorry is sickening
https://twitter.com/petersweden7/status/850440469293264897

gitzy16v · 07-04-2017 09:31PM

Snake Plisken wrote: »

Yeah here you go lads here is innocent swedes running for their lives, the speed of that lorry is sickening
https://twitter.com/petersweden7/status/850440469293264897

Oh fcuk:eek:

conorhal · 07-04-2017 09:31PM

Snake Plisken wrote: »

Yeah here you go lads here is innocent swedes running for their lives, the speed of that lorry is sickening
https://twitter.com/petersweden7/status/850440469293264897

Jesus Christ.....

07-04-2017 09:32PM

Snake Plisken wrote: »

Yeah here you go lads here is innocent swedes running for their lives, the speed of that lorry is sickening
https://twitter.com/petersweden7/status/850440469293264897

Holy Jesus the speed of that thing. Terrifying. You can ban guns all you want but when someone can just hop in a truck and use it like that, it's as deadly a weapon you could find.

Snake Plisken · 07-04-2017 09:36PM

I suggest you don't look at that guys twitter feed as he shows the uncensored photos of the poor victims, terrible terrible way to die. I think the death penalty should be brought in for these scum.

Danzy · 07-04-2017 09:38PM

Those photos should be on the Front Page of every paper in Sweden tomorrow.

Beyondgone · 07-04-2017 09:40PM

Omackeral wrote: »

Holy Jesus the speed of that thing. Terrifying. You can ban guns all you want but when someone can just hop in a truck and use it like that, it's as deadly a weapon you could find.

What do business people say - Can a thing be scaled? Is it repeatable?

How many trucks are there out there? How many crowded public spaces?

Will there be more sickening attacks like this? Only a fool would bet there won't.

Widdershins · 07-04-2017 09:42PM

Beyondgone wrote: »

Swedens issue is that Swedes are "nice". They had a stable, well balanced country with huge social supports for the populace. Or "cosy" as some might call it. Nice restaurants, theatre, CafÃ© culture, polite political debate.

Contrast that with their new arrivals.. people who have had to scrabble to survive, hack it across vast distances, surviving the equally scrabbling and indifferent people who occupy those vast distances before you hit "The West".

"Nice" has now met "harsh". You could even leave the whole "religious" angle aside. Just focus on the basic, yawning cultural differences. In the ME, massive car bombs are daily events. Fighter jets screaming overhead aren't unusual and if you throw in Libya, Iraq, Afghanistan etc, then seeing armed conflict daily wouldn't be anything unusual. Death and destruction wouldn't be alien concepts.

Chuck that mindset into a world of "nice" and things won't go well for the people of "nice". Because you don't leave yourself behind when you emigrate. If ramming a lorry packed with explosives into things is commonplace where you come from (and in a lot of the ME it is) then todays events wouldn't be much of a stretch. It's the folly of "nice" to think they can change "harsh" that is the real issue. Because Harsh will generally prevail.

Good post, that..and I'm not sure it bodes well. Do refugees receive trauma counselling? Or does that sound a bit pathetic, all things considered?

Danzy · 07-04-2017 09:49PM

If the driver, who is still on the run, is hiding in a suburb like Rinkeby, they'll have to send the army in to search for him because the Swedish Police will meet some resistance if they go in.

A suburb where the Police Station had to close down because it was being attacked so often, finally closing in 2014.

They are building a more formidable structure but that has stopped because the contractors who work on it are being threatened with murder.

It says all you need to know about Sweden today, one of its most troubled suburbs does not have a police station because criminals will not allow it.

Sweden is going to get some education.

Will I Am Not · 07-04-2017 09:51PM

[Deleted User] wrote: »

I mean, we could do the exact same thing with the posts you and your ilk say -

"hurpa durpa every Muslim is bad hurpa durpa don't even speak the language hurpa durpa"

Rinse and repeat every thread.

Me and my ilk? Wtf do you know about me or my views?

I've never made reference to every Muslim being bad or anything about speaking the language.

You know what assumption is the mother of... Well done you.

Truck driven into crowd in Stockholm - No Speculation

Comments