Truck driven into crowd in Stockholm - No Speculation

jackboy · 07-04-2017 05:59PM

BoatMad wrote: »

and neither is ordinary Islam or ordinary Muslims

Yes they are. Shia and Sunni are slaughtering each other in huge numbers.

BoatMad · 07-04-2017 06:00PM

The Specialist wrote: »

Stop making excuses you ****ing clown, theres none to be had. Would you have a similar view if someone bombed a mosque? That can be justified too due to actions like this.

None of it justifies violence. I dont condone any of it. But simply treating these people as if they dropped out of the sky as " violent terrorists" is nonsense.

There is a reason these people are radicalised and these attacks will not stop until we in the West realise that we have to sort the issues , not keep causing them to get worse.

perhaps you might point out the spate of Muslim attacks before the recent US and European involvement in actions in the ME and the destabilisation of North Africa .....?

Irish Praetorian · 07-04-2017 06:00PM

BoatMad wrote: »

nonsense , utter nonsense . Islam is at its base a peaceful religion , The Catholic church , now that was different, it killed all around it

I'd ease off on the trite descriptions, there is no real religion of peace, perhaps least of all Islam. The Byzantines and Sassanids didn't just randomly decide they wouldn't like to hang around Arabia any longer.

Help!!!! · 07-04-2017 06:00PM

BoatMad wrote: »

I have read enough to see that " terrorists" dont fall out of the sky. They often start as ordinary people that are radicalised by either direct experience or family experience or just what they see as a great wrong being perpetrated. Many people are radicalised but dont go as far as violent action , but there is a minority that do. This is just as true in Northern Ireland as it is in the ME.

For a radical , hitting back against the " west " is sufficient.

I dont apologise for violent attacks, but dont think simply labelling people as " terrorists " without accepting that there is a whole linkage that cant be ignored is sufficient either

Its all connected together.

The majority of Muslims are radicalised, whether they believe in Sharia Law, killing gay people, death to people blaspheming Mohammed, adultery etc.
Go outside a Mosque a shout " Mohammed was a paedo " & watch how many wont go as far as violent action. They take their religion too serious, they live from a book that was written 1600 years ago. Why is it that the west has no problems with Hindu/Sikhs?

BoatMad · 07-04-2017 06:01PM

jackboy wrote: »

Yes they are. Shia and Sunni are slaughtering each other in huge numbers.

Yes, but the west exacerbated that incredibly. the invasion of Afghanistan , and the disastrous invasion of Iraq, just poured fuel on a fire.

Western intervene carried a huge responsibility for what is happening today

Help!!!! · 07-04-2017 06:05PM

BoatMad wrote: »

Yes, but the west exacerbated that incredibly. the invasion of Afghanistan , and the disastrous invasion of Iraq, just poured fuel on a fire.

Western intervene carried a huge responsibility for what is happening today

They were killing each other long before the west got involved :rolleyes:

Gbear · 07-04-2017 06:05PM

BoatMad wrote: »

nonsense , utter nonsense . Islam is at its base a peaceful religion , The Catholic church , now that was different, it killed all around it

Well that is blatantly bull****.

Why on Earth would any of the belief systems dreamt up somewhere between the bronze age and 1000AD be anything other than barbaric?

There's an endless supply of heinous nonsense in the dogma of most religions.

The reason we've come along in the West isn't because we found the inner beauty of Christianity, but rather because we've learned to mostly ignore everything about it.

Hate the sin, not the sinner, or whatever. Most Muslims are just people doing normal people things.
The religion they've been indoctrinated with, on the other hand, deserves absolutely nothing but contempt.

In practical terms we can play nice so long as they, like most Christians in the West, aren't mental enough to put their beliefs into practice.

What most reasonable people would contend is that most Muslims are the non-practicing sort, in the strictest sense, and there's no need to have a carte blanche approach of denying them all access to the West.

The Irish, Italians and so on were widely villified in the US when they first started going there en masse. That's largely sorted itself out so I don't see what the big deal will be now.
If we have something to offer them in our society at the expense of their backwards beliefs, they'll transition into part of Western culture, just like other successful immigrants have.
If we have nothing to offer them other than ghettos where they get none of the benefits of the West, most of the downsides of where they've come from, and wall to wall racism and scorn from the society around them, then it's not going to work.

BoatMad · 07-04-2017 06:06PM

Help!!!! wrote: »

The majority of Muslims are radicalised, whether they believe in Sharia Law, killing gay people, death to people blaspheming Mohammed, adultery etc.
Go outside a Mosque a shout " Mohammed was a paedo " & watch how many wont go as far as violent action. They take their religion too serious, they live from a book that was written 1600 years ago. Why is it that the west has no problems with Hindu/Sikhs?

thats has largely been confined to countries ruled by Sharia law, ( and that country was not invaded , because its our " friend " )

Im not an apologist for the radical elements of Islam, there are many muslim countries where such practices do not occur. Iraq under Sadam, was no picnic, but women attended university and the worst tendencies of Islam were outlawed

The point remains, " we" are being attacked because " we " are seen as active combatants in the ME.

Snake Plisken · 07-04-2017 06:09PM

https://twitter.com/prisonplanet/status/850354668794413056

BoatMad · 07-04-2017 06:09PM

Gbear wrote: »

Well that is blatantly bull****.

Why on Earth would any of the belief systems dreamt up somewhere between the bronze age and 1000AD be anything other than barbaric?

There's an endless supply of heinous nonsense in the dogma of most religions.

The reason we've come along in the West isn't because we found the inner beauty of Christianity, but rather because we've learned to mostly ignore everything about it.

Hate the sin, not the sinner, or whatever. Most Muslims are just people doing normal people things.
The religion they've been indoctrinated with, on the other hand, deserves absolutely nothing but contempt.

In practical terms we can play nice so long as they, like most Christians in the West, aren't mental enough to put their beliefs into practice.

What most reasonable people would contend is that most Muslims are the non-practicing sort, in the strictest sense, and there's no need to have a carte blanche approach of denying them all access to the West.

The Irish, Italians and so on were widely villified in the US when they first started going there en masse. That's largely sorted itself out so I don't see what the big deal will be now.
If we have something to offer them in our society at the expense of their backwards beliefs, they'll transition into part of Western culture, just like other successful immigrants have.
If we have nothing to offer them other than ghettos where they get none of the benefits of the West, most of the downsides of where they've come from, and wall to wall racism and scorn from the society around them, then it's not going to work.

There is some much random nonsense here I cant even begin to answer it

Ask yourself this , why did ordinary people, take up petrol bombs and explosives and commit heinous acts in Northern Ireland, Then ask yourself why that process was brought to a close and what was done to facilitate that

Apply the solution to the much larger problem of the ME

( and to address the last post , think that the UK is home to 100 of thousands of first generation Irish, who have been recipients of the the UK taxpayers welfare system etc , yet Irish men still bombed it ) ( and yes the situation is not directly compatible , but there is more in common then there is in difference )

Help!!!! · 07-04-2017 06:09PM

BoatMad wrote: »

thats has largely been confined to countries ruled by Sharia law, ( and that country was not invaded , because its our " friend " )

Im not an apologist for the radical elements of Islam, there are many muslim countries where such practices do not occur. Iraq under Sadam, was no picnic, but women attended university and the worst tendencies of Islam were outlawed

The point remains, " we" are being attacked because " we " are seen as active combatants in the ME.

Yeah so banning them from entering Ireland would save us from any future terrorist strike

mattser · 07-04-2017 06:12PM

Any chance this thread could be put back on track. Way offside.

emo72 · 07-04-2017 06:13PM

I don't care what anyone says, but if your not allowed like dogs because of your religion, well, feck that religion.

Help!!!! · 07-04-2017 06:15PM

emo72 wrote: »

I don't care what anyone says, but if your not allowed like dogs because of your religion, well, feck that religion.

+1 & also bacon sandwiches

Rightwing · 07-04-2017 06:18PM

There's no doubt the West caused all of these problems, but so too did technology.

These muslim losers can't deal with how successful people in the West are, when they are turning over rocks in Afghanistan etc looking for the next worm for their dinner. Trying to bring us down to their level.

Of course, most muslims aren't losers, and want to go to the West to progress. But the losers are too big of a threat. Hungary etc was proven right.

BoatMad · 07-04-2017 06:20PM

Help!!!! wrote: »

Yeah so banning them from entering Ireland would save us from any future terrorist strike

I suppose we could deploy the " mind scanner 1000" at all points of entry and deduce those that will have children that in 30 years time will drive a car onto a bridge .....

Help!!!! · 07-04-2017 06:21PM

Rightwing wrote: »

There's no doubt the West caused all of these problems, but so too did technology.

These muslim losers can't deal with how successful people in the West are, when they are turning over rocks in Afghanistan etc looking for the next worm for their dinner. Trying to bring us down to their level.

Of course, most muslims aren't losers, and want to go to the West to progress. But the losers are too big of a threat. Hungary etc was proven right.

This Muslim guy says it straight

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hZZMXV_PRXk

BoatMad · 07-04-2017 06:23PM

Rightwing wrote: »

There's no doubt the West caused all of these problems, but so too did technology.

These muslim losers can't deal with how successful people in the West are, when they are turning over rocks in Afghanistan etc looking for the next worm for their dinner. Trying to bring us down to their level.

Of course, most muslims aren't losers, and want to go to the West to progress. But the losers are too big of a threat. Hungary etc was proven right.

There's no doubt the West caused all of these problems

Not "all" but it has exacerbated many of them in a very mishandled intervention

most muslims aren't losers,

very few people are losers, its a stupid term

But the losers are too big of a threat.

most are citizens of European countries , not recent entrants

Ulysses Gaze · 07-04-2017 06:25PM

emo72 wrote: »

I don't care what anyone says, but if your not allowed like dogs because of your religion, well, feck that religion.

Or music

Help!!!! · 07-04-2017 06:26PM

BoatMad wrote: »

I suppose we could deploy the " mind scanner 1000" at all points of entry and deduce those that will have children that in 30 years time will drive a car onto a bridge .....

Well if it stops any person in Ireland being a victim of terrorism or child grooming gangs then I'm all for it.
If you think it will only be 30 years before it happens in Ireland I think you are very much mistaken, when 1 in every 1500 Muslims in Ireland went to fight in Syria. What do you think's going to happen when they come back?

BoatMad · 07-04-2017 06:28PM

Help!!!! wrote: »

Well if it stops any person in Ireland being a victim of terrorism or child grooming gangs then I'm all for it.
If you think it will only be 30 years before it happens in Ireland I think you are very much mistaken, when 1 in every 1500 Muslims in Ireland went to fight in Syria. What do you think's going to happen when they come back?

good , just could, you invent the Mind scanner and then we can get on with it . thanks, we could perhaps better use it to deduce potential criminals and car drivers who accidents will kill somebody

Help!!!! · 07-04-2017 06:28PM

BoatMad wrote: »

Not "all" but it has exacerbated many of them in a very mishandled intervention

very few people are losers, its a stupid term

most are citizens of European countries , not recent entrants

Who still sees themselves as Muslims first

BoatMad · 07-04-2017 06:30PM

Help!!!! wrote: »

Who still sees themselves as Muslims first

so did the Jews , Catholics and Protestants as well

Help!!!! · 07-04-2017 06:31PM

BoatMad wrote: »

so did the Jews , Catholics and Protestants as well

I am Irish first, I'm sure the majority in the west say their country first

Too Tough To Die · 07-04-2017 06:33PM

Something needs to be done about these trucks.

Nody · 07-04-2017 06:35PM

So much misinformation; so little time. First of all no shots where fired; the Swedish police has specifically gone out and disclaimed that. Secondly; no one has been arrested for the crime so once again the claims of this being tunisian is a lie since the suspect has not been identified (two people have been taken for questioning but are not under arrest). Third there was ONE person in the truck as seen by the witnesses on site; once again no mass planning but lone wolf copy cat being the most likely answer but for all we know it could be Spanish retribution for the Swede who drove the wrong way with gas bottles in Barcelona in February this year.

BoatMad · 07-04-2017 06:36PM

Help!!!! wrote: »

I am Irish first, I'm sure the majority in the west say their country first

Yes but for example , The Irish consistently put their Religion first, rather then opting for an alternative religion that would have made life easier for them

The same is true of almost every serious religion. People has suffered persecution and hardship to ensure it remains in their life

As an Atheist , I have no truck with any of them, but I understand the hold it has had and still does have on people.

( have you ever toured the deep south in the US, the religion there in certain situations is as scary as any radical Islamism )

Rightwing · 07-04-2017 06:38PM

Nody wrote: »

So much misinformation; so little time. First of all no shots where fired; the Swedish police has specifically gone out and disclaimed that. Secondly; no one has been arrested for the crime so once again the claims of this being tunists is a lie since the suspect has not been identified. Third there was ONE person in the truck as seen by the witnesses on site; once again no mass planning but lone wolf copy cat being the most likely answer but for all we know it could be Spanish retribution for the Swede who drove the wrong way with gas bottles in Barcelona in February this year.

Highly unlikely, but if it is you are on the ball, no question about that.

Gbear · 07-04-2017 06:40PM

BoatMad wrote: »

There is some much random nonsense here I cant even begin to answer it

Ask yourself this , why did ordinary people, take up petrol bombs and explosives and commit heinous acts in Northern Ireland, Then ask yourself why that process was brought to a close and what was done to facilitate that

Apply the solution to the much larger problem of the ME

( and to address the last post , think that the UK is home to 100 of thousands of first generation Irish, who have been recipients of the the UK taxpayers welfare system etc , yet Irish men still bombed it ) ( and yes the situation is not directly compatible , but there is more in common then there is in difference )

That has essentially nothing to do with my post.

You stated that Islam is peaceful. When I pointed out that it wasn't you've started talking about Northern Ireland for some reason.

Trying to pretend that *Insert Religion Here* is inherently good despite its adherents doing awful things in its name requires you to argue that the religion is good on its own merits.
Islam is not good on its own merits. No religions I've encountered are.

That doesn't mean there aren't other contributory factors, but the ideology is a factor.
If nothing else it serves to direct the kind of person that'd attach themselves to a violent ideology at a particular target.

Mutant z · 07-04-2017 06:41PM

Angela Merkel and her ilk have blood on their hands for opening the door for these savages, who are now causing mayhem across Europe.

Truck driven into crowd in Stockholm - No Speculation

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