Formula 1 2017: General Discussion Thread

Has anyone notices that the multi-planed wings are effectively only in use to get around the ban (ex DRS) on moveable aero?

On Vettel's Ferrari, from the onboard camera, you could clearly see about 1-2cm downward deflection as downforce increased thus reducing drag

Doea anyone here know why there is a blind eye turned to it? If DrS is going to be used then why would you allow illegal drs on front wings, something that reduces the impact of drs?

The actual gaps in the wings must increase drag a bit as there are more leading edges so there must be a big drop in drag at higher speed to overcome it. I think Adrian Newey commented on this in the past, saying its about steering the air around the wheels and chassis when he really meant moving the wing itslef out of the way.

clear thinking wrote: »

Has anyone notices that the multi-planed wings are effectively only in use to get around the ban (ex DRS) on moveable aero?

On Vettel's Ferrari, from the onboard camera, you could clearly see about 1-2cm downward deflection as downforce increased thus reducing drag

Doea anyone here know why there is a blind eye turned to it? If DrS is going to be used then why would you allow illegal drs on front wings, something that reduces the impact of drs?

The actual gaps in the wings must increase drag a bit as there are more leading edges so there must be a big drop in drag at higher speed to overcome it. I think Adrian Newey commented on this in the past, saying its about steering the air around the wheels and chassis when he really meant moving the wing itslef out of the way.

The front wing is the most important aerodynamic piece on the car, it doesn't just provide downforce. It's also responsible for directing airflow back towards the rest of the car. Getting the airflow directed in the optimal direction is critical to the overall downforce levels produced. The endplates are used to redirect the airflow around the front tyres, the upper and main flaps direct air over them reducing drag caused by the tyres. The various elements and slot gaps are primarily to allow airflow under the wing where the air pressure is lower, increasing downforce and reducing the chances of the wing stalling. And all the straight pieces help to clean the air. All front wings flex, it would be impossible to develop a front wing that can't because of the sheer amount of load that's put through the wing on the track. It's not overlooked, there's a test the wings have to go through in scrutineering. I don't see any issue.

clear thinking wrote: »

That's a very good explainer.

The issue I have with slot gaps is that they are an exploitation to allow extra flex. A 3 planed element has 3 times the leading edge drag so there is no aero logic (the line about getting air under the wings is actually contradictory - think of tri plane aircraft being inefficient) except that the 2cm downward deflection under load reduces drag more than the cost of 3 edges, it's illegal in my book. 1 plane instead of 3 - 4 - 5 planes would by default be stiffer and deflect less.

You're forgetting two key things, 1: F1 is built on engineers exploiting the regulations to the fullest extent. And 2: if they were illegal teams would be informing on each other as they always do. I really don't see the issue

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

To be fair there's because kimi is... grand. Not slow but not exciting either. He did well last season no doubt about it. And still finished behind vettel who was having a poor season.

I agree with the poster below who says he should have retired. When you look at the level of talent coming thorough in he form of teenagers, I see little merit in holding on to aging drivers like massa, button and kimi, except name recognition

He's exactly the kind of drive Ferrari typically keep as their no 2 so he could be safe for a season yet.

Completely agree, there's been a sort of roadblock for guys like Perez, Grosjean & Hulk who could do just as well if not better as no. 2 for Ferrari. Soon enough their time will have passed without even a sniff at a decent team.

skipper_G wrote: »

Completely agree, there's been a sort of roadblock for guys like Perez, Grosjean & Hulk who could do just as well if not better as no. 2 for Ferrari. Soon enough their time will have passed without even a sniff at a decent team.

Only been one race in a really competitive car this season so hoping (not expecting) something still in the tank for Kimi, but probably all are right that its about time for him as there's nothing to be gained for him (other than the sizeable pay cheque) from just hauling points. In fairness tho he's still a safer pair of hands from a Ferrari perspective. For me it's those drivers mentioned who haven't done enough to push him and the other veterans out.

Perez had a shot at a big drive at Mclaren and lasted one season. It was start of the slump for them, but they hadn't imploded as much at that stage. He's definitely much improved since then, and it was unlucky timing, but still, it was a sniff, and its probably a niggling concern for big teams. Grosjean looks better every season but its still only a season or 2 since he stopped crashing in to everything around him. One more clean season and he should really get a shot. Hulk has never had a podium. He's been in good enough cars that this should have happened by now, so he'd need to start showing something soon or be another nearly man.

I do think they probably would all do well, but constructors points at the end of the season are what matter to big teams. 'Deserve got nothing to do with it'

skipper_G wrote: »

Merc engine probably still with just enough edge over Ferrari, so I expect Hamilton to be the favourite.

1: Hamilton.

2: Vettel.

3: Bottas.

That will be the top three race result this weekend.

Jordan 199 wrote: »

1: Hamilton.

2: Vettel.

3: Bottas.

That will be the top three race result this weekend.

This might change things

http://www.planetf1.com/news/rain-forecast-for-chinese-gp-weekend/

Sweet 56 laps behind the safety car!

Spudman_20000 wrote: »

If it does start behind the safety car, do they now resume the race from the grid with a standing start?

Yeah, I think you're right. I seem to remember a rule discussed last year that was to be introduced for this season, where they're will be a grid start after going around behind the safety car for a bit to dry the track out.
Just checked Wikipeadia to reveal this:

In the event that a race is declared wet and must start behind the safety car, the grid will follow normal starting procedures once conditions are declared satisfactory for racing. Drivers will line up on the grid for a standing start once the safety car pulls into pit lane, although any laps completed behind the safety car will count towards the total race distance.

McLaren have put a coat hanger on the back of their fin...

Ghost Train wrote: »

Was interesting episode. Good argument about sexism in F1, Joe didn't come off the best

It was interesting alright. The highlight was Joe's opinion that Simona de Silvestro was wasted. He reckons she was worth the drive but was hired merely as totty.

Gintonious wrote: »

Apparently, this is called a "box wing" because it is closed.

Won't make an ounce of difference to the car.

Except adding an ounce of weight. :P

BTW are we having a poll competition this weekend?